new T in 2009?

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Kylan
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Re: new T in 2009?

#61 Post by Kylan » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:28 am

Regarding the screen, check out LED-backlit vs. WSXGA+ resolution. (Note it´s not possible to directly compare LED-backlit with higher resolution because this would be like apples and oranges, but since they are excluding each other in the configuration of Lenovo ThinkPads, one could compare their absolute advantages and disadvantages and "compute" the utility of each according to one´s personal preferences.)
Great info but ughhh... kind of feels like there are important variables that can't be known w/o first-hand experience that I have zero of. :?

So for those of you who are familiar w/ the options on a T400, what would you choose?

And on a W500?

ajkula66
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Re: new T in 2009?

#62 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:04 pm

As for W500, I'd go with WSXGA+ because it can't possibly be worse than WUXGA...and, according to archer6's report, is actually quite good for a non-IPS panel.

T400...WXGA+, LED-lit...if I were actually buying one.

My $0.02 only...
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Kylan
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Re: new T in 2009?

#63 Post by Kylan » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:20 pm

ajkula66 wrote:As for W500, I'd go with WSXGA+ because it can't possibly be worse than WUXGA...and, according to archer6's report, is actually quite good for a non-IPS panel.

T400...WXGA+, LED-lit...if I were actually buying one.
Those were two valuable cents! Thanks for the opinion. I hope others who are familiar w/ both options will share their thoughts, too.

PS I hadn't heard about IPS so it (via Google) was helpful for me as I keep trying to learn more. Thanks for that, too.

PPS Are the ThinkPad panels VA or TN, then?

Marin85
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Re: new T in 2009?

#64 Post by Marin85 » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:55 pm

Kylan wrote:PPS Are the ThinkPad panels VA or TN, then?
TN (except for the IPS ones)
IBM Lenovo Z61p | 15.4'' WUXGA | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 2.16GHz | 4 GB Kingston HyperX | Hitachi 7K500 500 GB + WD 1TB (USB) | ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 | ThinkPad Atheros a/b/g | Analog Devices AD1981HD | Win 7 x86 + ArchLinux 2009.08 x64 (number crunching)

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Re: new T in 2009?

#65 Post by ssd_thinkpad » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:56 pm

In my opinion LED is far overrated and not needed for having a good screen. I work with best eizo external monitors in over 1.000 $ class and they provide an extreme good picture without any led. LED may be useful for battery savings and they can provide a more evenly backlighted display.

Considering that LEDs provide a brigher screen, you should remember: The less brighter the screen is, the healthier it is for your eyes (considering you have a good contrast). You do not want to look right in the sun too long, too.

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Re: new T in 2009?

#66 Post by Kylan » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:55 pm

ssd_thinkpad wrote: Considering that LEDs provide a brigher screen, you should remember: The less brighter the screen is, the healthier it is for your eyes (considering you have a good contrast). You do not want to look right in the sun too long, too.
Though my eyes are 20/20 I have had to wear non-prescription anti-glare glasses for years because when I look at a computer very long they feel like they are going to start bleeding (slightly overstated to spice up the forum).

So you are saying that I might need to turn down an LED screen if I get one?

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Re: new T in 2009?

#67 Post by ssd_thinkpad » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:09 pm

In my opinion having LED is better than usual backlight, but you should concentrate on the panel. There are panels with led that are superior than panels with standard backlight.

I definitely would not use a notebooks backlight with highest brightness if it hurts your eyes. There is a reason why high end monitors have the "automaticely detect brightness" sensor: just to shut down brightness which is better for eyes and energy consumption.

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Re: new T in 2009?

#68 Post by Kylan » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:20 pm

Just pulled the trigger on the T400 (actually, one for me, one for my assistant):

Intel Core 2 Duo processor T9600 (2.8GHz 1066MHz 6MBL2)1
Genuine Windows Vista Business 6412
14.1 WXGA TFT High Nit, w/ LED Backlight, Camera
ATI Mobility Radeon 3470 with 256MB
2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)8
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad) with Fingerprint Reader
160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm4
DVD Recordable 8x Max Dual Layer, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)5
Integrated Bluetooth PAN
Intel WiFi Link 5300 (AGN) with My WiFi Technology10
Integrated Mobile Broadband upgradable
9 cell Li-Ion Battery60

Am getting a 320 GB HD from Newegg.com and 2 GB more RAM from Crucial.com

Thanks so much for all your efforts to help me! You are making an amazing forum.

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T400 with external HD LCD/monitr

#69 Post by Kylan » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:24 am

UPDATED:

Hi again! While I wait (and wait and wait) for my T400 to arrive I'm wondering if it has a HDMI port of some sort to use w/ my new LCD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6824254026). I don't see any HDMI ports when I look at the specs for the machine (http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf).

On a related note when I look at docking options on Lenovo's site (http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... _area=true) and sort by T400s it shows a few but when I read about their compatibility none of them say T400, just T60, etc. Does anyone know how I can confirm which model(s) work?

Thanks! :D

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Re: new T in 2009?

#70 Post by Rochefort » Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:40 am

Marin85 wrote:
Now, regarding SSDs, since you are considering purchasing a T400, which doesn´t suffer from the SATA-150 limitations
Are you sure !?
Have a look http://www.desktopreview.com/default.as ... Vertex+SSD at the HD Tune picts between Desktop
(208 Mo/s) and T 400 (131,5)....the same as my X25E.
On the Tabook , SATA 300 are for slows 1,8' SSDs .
I think we've to wait for the new coming models designed for Windows Seven...I hope ;)
- IBM T60p/1,83 M/RAM:3 Gb/15' SXGA+ IPS Ati Fire GL V5250 256Mo /SSD Intel X25 E 32 GB /XP Pro
- HP 8740w - Core i5 540M 2.53 GHz - 17" LED WVA TFT 1920 x 1200 ( WUXGA ) NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M 1 GB GDDR3 SDRAM- Samsung 850 Pro 500 GB SSD

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Re: new T in 2009?

#71 Post by Utwig » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:41 pm

I have a T42p and if buying new (bought my Thinkpads used), I'd wait for Windows 7 and Core i7 (Intel's Calpella platform), which should be here by late Q3 or Q4.
T540p, T420s (soon to be T420ps :) ), X61t, T60p, T42p, A21p

Marin85
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Re: new T in 2009?

#72 Post by Marin85 » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:04 pm

Rochefort wrote:Are you sure !?
Have a look http://www.desktopreview.com/default.as ... Vertex+SSD at the HD Tune picts between Desktop
(208 Mo/s) and T 400 (131,5)....the same as my X25E.
On the Tabook , SATA 300 are for slows 1,8' SSDs.
Here an excerpt of Mark Hopkins´ statement on the SATA limitation matter:
The Montevina based systems which began shipping last year have direct SATA interfaces for both drive bays and are enabled at a system level for SATA bus speeds of 3.0 Gb/s performance. Current Lenovo drives have firmware set to 1.5 Gb/s data rates. Exchanging these drives for after-market drives which support SATA bus of 3.0 Gb/s should provide for the higher data rate at the overall system level.
But I can´t say I´m really sure as I don´t possess such machine so I could test this out for myself.
IBM Lenovo Z61p | 15.4'' WUXGA | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 2.16GHz | 4 GB Kingston HyperX | Hitachi 7K500 500 GB + WD 1TB (USB) | ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 | ThinkPad Atheros a/b/g | Analog Devices AD1981HD | Win 7 x86 + ArchLinux 2009.08 x64 (number crunching)

Rochefort
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Re: new T in 2009?

#73 Post by Rochefort » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:16 am

Marin85 wrote:But I can´t say I´m really sure as I don´t possess such machine so I could test this out for myself.
Me too
It's really disappointing coz my wonderful screen 4/3 IPS no longer made :(
- IBM T60p/1,83 M/RAM:3 Gb/15' SXGA+ IPS Ati Fire GL V5250 256Mo /SSD Intel X25 E 32 GB /XP Pro
- HP 8740w - Core i5 540M 2.53 GHz - 17" LED WVA TFT 1920 x 1200 ( WUXGA ) NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M 1 GB GDDR3 SDRAM- Samsung 850 Pro 500 GB SSD

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Re: new T in 2009?

#74 Post by zenit » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:21 am

archer6 wrote:Personally when I see "4 + weeks" on the site, I get very discouraged. Ideally it would be nice if they could ship sooner. While I cannot attest to the accuracy I did speak with Lenovo yesterday about this timeline and they said that their new practice is to quote longer times than needed, so as to be able to beat that estimate. I was told that it's currently taking about 2 weeks. In my case the new W500 I just received last week beat the estimated time by a full week.

Finally, I will give a friendly reminder not to let this drive you to purchase a MacBook, or MacBook Pro as now that I've used mine a bit more I am having buyers remorse. The display is simply mirror like and nearly useless, thus I've listed it on ebay and cannot wait to dispose of it. Proof positive that there is nothing like a ThinkPad... simply brilliant!

Cheers...
Just curious if not for the gloss, how does the screen quality on your macbook compared to the one on W500? In a sort of way if you put them side by side in a dark room.

I had a T400 for a week with an LG LED panel which had to go back to the place where i bought it from due to being defective. During the time i had it, i compared it side by side with my wife's aluminium macbook (13") with a CMO (Chi Mei) LED panel. The T400 LG panel looked like total rubbish if compared with the macbook. Colors were not nearly as accurate (to my eyes), and viewing angles (especially vertical) were a ton better on the CMO panel. I just ordered myself a new T400 with WXGA+ LED screen (it's available through purchasing contracts), so i am hoping i might get a better example maybe with a different panel manufacturer this time.

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Re: new T in 2009?

#75 Post by archer6 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:52 am

zenit wrote:Just curious if not for the gloss, how does the screen quality on your macbook compared to the one on W500? In a sort of way if you put them side by side in a dark room. I had a T400 for a week with an LG LED panel which had to go back to the place where i bought it from due to being defective. During the time i had it, i compared it side by side with my wife's aluminium macbook (13") with a CMO (Chi Mei) LED panel. The T400 LG panel looked like total rubbish if compared with the macbook. Colors were not nearly as accurate (to my eyes), and viewing angles (especially vertical) were a ton better on the CMO panel. I just ordered myself a new T400 with WXGA+ LED screen (it's available through purchasing contracts), so i am hoping i might get a better example maybe with a different panel manufacturer this time.
Currently I have both the Unibody MacBook & MacBook Pro. Having a certain fondness for both the ThinkPad line and PowerBooks then, and MacBook Pros now, I've been on a rather parallel track using ThinkPads as my primary laptop of choice over the last ten years, while at the same time using PowerBooks / MacBook Pros just for fun and bit of variety. My home office is in the center of the house, therefore there are no windows and it's setup as my office / library. With indirect focused or diffused lighting, there is no source of glare or anything to cause reflections on an computer screen. A rather ideal environment especially for the highly reflective Unibody Macs. This is virtually the only place that I can truly enjoy either of the Macs as they have such intense glare and reflectivity off the new glass covered displays. Even with 20/20 vision the moment I take the MBP out to my work office, or a clients, or Starbucks the glare and reflection becomes too much to deal with. I cannot stand looking at whatever is behind me as it's reflected back into my eyes, not too much unlike a rear view mirror in ones car. Those that claim to enjoy this display must be simply willing to live with it. I travel constantly, meeting clients or friends at Starbucks and the one thing I've noticed is of the many laptops I see each day, I rarely see either a MB or MBP. This is very telling as I used to see many Macs especially in the University City that I live in, which has a large MacStore as well as the Apple Store in the mall. Since the release of the Unibody models I've only seen two out in "real world use".

There is a distinct difference between the MacBook & MacBook Pro displays with the MBP being the better of the two. Viewing angles while similar are the only thing they seem to share in common, as the MBP display has much better color accuracy, balance, depth, and contrast. Fonts & Icons are clear and crisp. How much of that is due to the glass cover over the display is hard to say. Placed side by side on the desk with my W500 and my (like new) 15" 4:3 IPS T60p, we have three strikingly different looks. Particularly since I purchased two T60p's new upon learning that the widescreen was about to take over, thus I bought one to use for work and one as a spare, so this comparison model is virtually new out of the box with full brightness.
Taking the IPS model out of the comparison leaves us with the MacBook Pro and the WSGA+ W500. I must say that I am quite amazed and pleased at how nice the regular CCFL back lit TN display of the W500 is. Rated at 200 nits, it is very bright, clear, and fairly crisp. Colors are fairly accurate, however it must be noted that I'm particularly picky as I have practiced amateur photography for years and thus I'm more judgmental of a display than most. Color balance, depth, and contrast are all quite good.

While no match for the MBP display the W500 is nonetheless a solid 7.5 on a scale of 10, with the Mac being a 9. If the Mac had a matte display it would be far easier to make a fair comparison. That said, I hope that I have been helpful and have answered some of your questions regarding these displays.

Cheers...
Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
Netbooks... S-10 ~ S-12

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Re: new T in 2009?

#76 Post by tomh009 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:51 pm

archer6 wrote:While no match for the MBP display the W500 is nonetheless a solid 7.5 on a scale of 10, with the Mac being a 9. If the Mac had a matte display it would be far easier to make a fair comparison. That said, I hope that I have been helpful and have answered some of your questions regarding these displays.
Given your extensive inventory :) of ThinkPads, might I ask how you would rate your various X series models as far as the display goes? I am curious ...
X220 (4287-2W5, Windows 8 Pro) / X31 (2672-CXU, XP Pro) / X61s (7668-CTO, Windows 8 Pro)

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Re: new T in 2009?

#77 Post by archer6 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:17 pm

Given the excellence of the X60 / X60s models, the weak link in the chain so to speak is most certainly the display. As I'm sure you are aware of they are XGA. If we set aside personal preference about resolution, the main disappointment for me as a huge ThinkPad advocate is the rather poor quality of these displays. A bit washed out looking (not bad, but noticeable) they simply do not live up to the high quality and exemplary performance of the rest of the computer. My observations with regular CCFL back lit TN ThinkPad displays is such that, the moment you go higher than XGA resolution, everything improves considerably. For example SXGA+ (1400x1050) in a 4:3 format panel, such as on my 15" T42 (non-IPS) is a very good display. The same holds true for the 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) TN CCFL display on my W500. Then when one goes higher such as my WUXGA (1920x1200) equipped W500 then we have an even better display. Regarding the X200 and the X200s the same thing applies, the lower the resolution the poorer the display, the moment the resolution increases, so does the quality of the display in terms of viewing it. The X301 is a bit better and an improvement over the X300 I had, yet they still lack a display that is worthy of the machine it is mounted on. Xbrite Sony Vaio displays are much better as are the MacBook and MacBook Pros I commented on earlier, save for the super reflective glass front. If Apple offers a matte display on the 15.4" MBP as they are doing on the 17" model, then there may be many people that opt for the MBP instead of a ThinkPad for the outstanding quality of the MBP display.

At the end of the day this is my greatest dissapointment in Lenovo, if they would just get serious and provide us with high quality displays fit for the machine, then we would have world class laptops.

Cheers...
Last edited by archer6 on Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo
Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
Netbooks... S-10 ~ S-12

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Re: new T in 2009?

#78 Post by tomh009 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:15 pm

Thanks ... while I don't have the breadth of experience with different models, it's not so different from my thoughts. The low contrast of the X60 display (especially troublesome in bright lighting conditions) was my biggest issue. The sharpness (high dpi) of the X200s display combined with the improved contrast and brightness (for those situations where you have no curtains to draw!) make it a lot better.

Colour reproduction ... I don't have high expectations there, so I am not disappointed. :) I mainly trust the combination of my camera and my experience, and avoid messing too much with colour balance in any case. But for sure I find that it's much easier judging image sharpness and focus (always a potential problem with long lenses and slow shutter speeds) with the WXGA+ on the X200s!
X220 (4287-2W5, Windows 8 Pro) / X31 (2672-CXU, XP Pro) / X61s (7668-CTO, Windows 8 Pro)

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Re: new T in 2009?

#79 Post by Marin85 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:49 pm

archer6 wrote:The same holds true for the 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) TN CCFL display on my W500. Then when one goes higher such as my WUXGA (1920x1200) equipped W500 then we have an even better display
I actually thought (reading other users reviews) that the WUXGA one is noticeably worse than the WSXGA+ display. The latter seems to be slightly brighter (~200 nit vs. ~185 nit, those ~200 nit seem to be just right, I have a WUXGA screen rated at about those 185nit and my feeling is 15nit more would be almost perfect, I don´t need extreme brightness as this would be bad for my eyes), also seems to have better contrast and slightly better viewing angles. Off topic: I´m waiting for Lenovo to release T500 with LED-backlit WSXGA+ panel for better battery life on the T500 :)
IBM Lenovo Z61p | 15.4'' WUXGA | Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 2x 2.16GHz | 4 GB Kingston HyperX | Hitachi 7K500 500 GB + WD 1TB (USB) | ATI Mobility FireGL V5200 | ThinkPad Atheros a/b/g | Analog Devices AD1981HD | Win 7 x86 + ArchLinux 2009.08 x64 (number crunching)

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Re: new T in 2009?

#80 Post by archer6 » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:32 pm

Marin85 wrote:I actually thought (reading other users reviews) that the WUXGA one is noticeably worse than the WSXGA+ display. The latter seems to be slightly brighter (~200 nit vs. ~185 nit, those ~200 nit seem to be just right, I have a WUXGA screen rated at about those 185nit and my feeling is 15nit more would be almost perfect, I don´t need extreme brightness as this would be bad for my eyes), also seems to have better contrast and slightly better viewing angles. Off topic: I´m waiting for Lenovo to release T500 with LED-backlit WSXGA+ panel for better battery life on the T500 :)
Those who say the WUXGA on a W500 is worse, may have that opinion without the benefit of a direct comparison between the two. Yes I'm aware of the written specs, however in real life it's actually a stellar display for what it is (Std TN CCFL). Besides while on paper the nits rating is a bit less, that is not a problem in real life as the full 200 nits of the WSXGA+ display is actually brighter than one needs, and not that much brighter than the lesser rated WUXGA. Moving on, my IdeaPad S10 - 1024x600 display is actually one of the best due to the LED back lighting. It's truly a good way (using an LED back light) to improve what is otherwise a very ordinary display.

Cheers...
Favorites From My ThinkPad Collection

Workstations... T40p ~ T41p ~ T42p ~ T43p ~ T60p ~ T61p ~ W500 ~ W510
T Series..... T22 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 41 ~ 42 ~ 43 ~ 60 ~ 400 ~ 500 ~ 510
X Series..... X20 ~ 30 ~ 40 ~ 60 ~ 60s ~ 200 ~ 200s ~ 301
Netbooks... S-10 ~ S-12

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Re: new T in 2009?

#81 Post by zenit » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:29 pm

who is the manufacturer of WUXGA+ panel used by lenovo?

I investigated a bit and saw that WSXGA+ used by lenovo are made by samsung. I have a similar one on my Asus G1S and it
is a rather nice panel indeed.

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Re: new T in 2009?

#82 Post by asiafish » Fri May 08, 2009 10:25 pm

[quote="Marin85"]
(d) Macbooks are not very upgrade-friendly. In general, upgrading a Mac (like memory or HD) is in the range from real pain to impossible.

No longer true. Memory has always been EXTREMELY easy to upgrade on all Apple laptops, much easier than the palmrest removal on many current ThinkPads.

Hard drive used to be near impossible on iBooks and metal PowerBooks as well as aluminum (pre-unibody) MacBook Pro. Plastic MacBooks and the new unibody MacBook and Pro are extremely easy to upgrade hard drive, one screw, with the drive right there in the battery compartment.
"An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

Richard Dawkins, 2002

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Re: new T in 2009?

#83 Post by ron781 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:02 pm

A new T series seems to be in the offing this year..a T400s, to be exact n seems to be pretty different n slim, looks balanced(no off center screen) and no batt jutting out at the back(ports there)...check the pics n comments at the links below

check these links http://www.electronista.com/articles/09 ... 0s.leaked/
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09 ... 0s.leaked/

or just google T400s..cheers :wink:
IBM T40, Z61t.
HP dv3005tx, tx2006au tabletpc.

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