Beware - Lenovo has changed keyboard layout of T400s

[Puppy]

We have already lost high quality IPS displays. There are some complaints on build quality of new Lenovo ThinkPad T models. The only feature believed to be "rock-solid" was the keyboard and its perfect layout .... till now. The review of new T400s has revealed that Lenovo has ruined the layout as well (note: the review shows non-US model but the change very likely affects the US keyboard layout as well). Namely it is the Ins/Del keys placement. Follow the link: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=77381

[dr_st]

I cannot really identify with any of the options...

The option I would identify with would be "It is still a Thinkpad, but I want it changed back to the way it was."

[Puppy]

You are right, pool edited.

[qviri]

Of the six-key block, I use Insert by far the least. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I used it that didn't involve vim (and that's replaceable by i). The Insert and Escape changes don't make me happy because I didn't have any problems with the previous version, but I can't say they make me unhappy either. It's not like they took out the gaps between F key groups or moved page up/down to the right of enter (knock on wood!).

Let's remember IBM/Lenovo's done its share of changes previously - the addition of back/forward keys in *30 series and the Windows keys in *40 series are still bemoaned by some.

[ajkula66]

qviri wrote:

Let's remember IBM/Lenovo's done its share of changes previously - the addition of back/forward keys in *30 series and the Windows keys in *40 series are still bemoaned by some.

Nasty windows key hasn't appeared until *60 series...and I'm amongst the ones who despise that addition...

As for up-and-coming keyboard changes, the writing was on the wall when SL series was released...

[t140568]

I use the heck out of my delete key. Insert, I'm not as particular about, but why mess with what I've been using for years?

Change it back to the way it was!

As for the Windows key, I like the idea of the key itself, but don't want the windows logo on it. Sure would be nice if they'd manufacture an additional key with say Tux or a Solaris logo. Something I could swap onto the TP, even if it cost me a buck or two. Give me an option.

[jdhurst]

Please help me with what this discussion is about.

I had to hunt all over for a picture of a T400 keyboard, and in terms of layout, it is the same as my T61p.

I then pulled out my retired T41 and it has the same keyboard as the T61p and (apparently) the T400, EXCEPT of course, the T41 does not have Windows keys which I can take or leave.

But the Delete key and related arrangement and the cursor keys and related arrangement is the same for all three laptops.

So why are my machines all the same, and yours are all different? .... JDH

[craigmontHunter]

I don't know if they just have diffrent models of keyboard. They look like the candian multilingual keyboards that the terca my school has have, with the big enter key. they have a slash beside the left shift (hate that - you type and essay and it comes out with a slash in front of every capital from the right side of the keyboard). There may be diffrent options. I know that on the lenovo Canada site, there are 3 diffrent keyboard options -
US English Keyboard
Acnor Canadian French Keyboard [$0.00]
Canadian French (58) Keyboard [$0.00]

I think that the Canadian french keyboard is the one they are showing.

Jack

[jdhurst]

I think it must be just different keyboards. The T400 I saw has the slash beside the right shift key, the same as it has been for me since 1981. Thanks for your reply. ... JDH

[craigmontHunter]

For those of you who have not seen it, here is a picture of the t400s with the normal American keyboard
http://jkontherun.files.wordpress.com/2 ... s-open.jpg

It looks like the insert and escape keys have changed but it is a low angle to really tell

[archer6]

Beware?... change is everywhere. No surprize & no danger.....ha...ha...ha...
.
Cheers...

[qviri]

.

[t140568]

I don't understand why this specific change in keyboard. Why deviate from the standard 6-key block that's not only found on TPs, but on most standard keyboards?

[jdhurst]

OK - that was a helpful picture and different than the picture I found on my own.

The only difference (to my worn-out brain) between the T400s and my T61p (and earlier machines) is that the delete key is two keys large and they moved the top row of keys left and put the insert key over F12. I think I could adapt to that. Why? I use the delete key frequently. I use the insert key rarely. Otherwise it is the same as what I have. ... JDH

[bill bolton]

Why? I use the delete key frequently. I use the insert key rarely. Otherwise it is the same as what I have. ... JDH

Me too.

This looks likes a lot of complaining for the sake of complaining, and from rather predictable sources, rather than anything significant!

Previous ThinkPad keyboard layout changes by IBM have been MUCH more significant!

Cheers,

Bill B.

[dr_st]

This looks likes a lot of complaining for the sake of complaining, and from rather predictable sources, rather than anything significant!

Change for the sake of change warrants complaining for the sake of complaining.

Previous ThinkPad keyboard layout changes by IBM have been MUCH more significant!

If by "previous" you mean early 90s and earlier (sorry I am not old enough to have been using laptops 15 years ago), then maybe yes.

I actually have an old an non-working Thinkpad 355 in the house, and guess what - minus the browser and windows keys, the keyboard layout is exactly the same as on every Thinkpad up to, but excluding the T400s.

I guess the Lenovo keyboard team geniuses really had nothing better to do, and in the current time of crisis, no one wants to be voted unnecessary in the company, so to justify their existence they had to come up with something. And it's not so bad really, could have been much worse.

[bill bolton]

minus the browser and windows keys

[yak]

I really don't understand all the aggression related to the T400s keyboard changes. Saying that it was ok before so why changing it is not a reason for me. History of the man kind shows a lot of inventions improved peoples lives even though they didn't complain they were lacking before.

It's a minor change so please spare us the exaggerations like "they've ruined the keyboard". Even if you're very attached to the current layout you can use this new one almost without thinking about it. And there are people that like it better.

That being said, the SL keyboard is definitely a step backwards. However, the T400s isn't. At least IMO.

[Zender]

That's interesting change, and I'd have to experience it myself to see whether I can adapt to it - because I actually do use insert often - in the clipboard-operating combinations - because it's faster and more accurate to use Ctrl+Insert, Shift+Insert, Shift+Delete (instead of Ctrl+C, V, X) without looking on the keyboard. And it's often very unpleasant to hit Ctrl-C instead of Ctrl-V.

I consider this a nice experiment - unlike all the weird layouts other notebook makers use. Though I had to remap the back/forward next to cursor keys to PageUp/PageDown, as I had it on my previous notebook, as it was too convenient to give up. And I hope PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause stays with us, or I'd have no keys to remap NumPad+, NumPad- and NumPad* to, given that using "originals" of these keys on ThinkPads requires enabling numlock.

[JaneL]

This looks likes a lot of complaining for the sake of complaining, and from rather predictable sources, rather than anything significant!

But why did they change it, and is it the first step to more radical changes? They had a stellar keyboard. Why not spend the resources fixing things that are broken instead of mucking around with the keyboard?

[ajkula66]

bill bolton wrote:

Previous ThinkPad keyboard layout changes by IBM have been MUCH more significant

I must admit I'm at a loss here, unless you're referring to a short-lived addition of side-row keys on A3x series, which died with it...not claiming I've seen every ThinkPad built, but would honestly appreciate some clarification...

JaneL wrote:

But why did they change it, and is it the first step to more radical changes? They had a stellar keyboard. Why not spend the resources fixing things that are broken instead of mucking around with the keyboard?

Well, we've already seen a radical change when they've decided to introduce SL series which is in insult to the ThinkPad name IMHO...apart from that, you've hit the nail on the head.

[zenit]

i like the new layout, looks alot more sleek than current t400 one.

[beeblebrox]

The keyboard change ist GREAT!

ESC and Del keys are some of the most used keys on the keyboard.
I don't even know if I ever used INSERT for a purpose. But I know that I hit it many times when typing blind and then was furious about tis stupid key.

Puppy: It is time to move on into the 21st century. Maybe for you too?

The next key to remove is the CAPS Lock. Most useless key for decades. We don't have Typwriters anymore!
And SCROLL Lock? What the hell was this ever good for? Drop it!

[jdhurst]

And so you see, we each have our own needs. I use CapsLck quite a bit and would not want to see it go. ... JDH

[killer]

And so you see, we each have our own needs. I use CapsLck quite a bit and would not want to see it go. ... JDH

I use Caps Lock quite a bit too. The trouble is that it usually happens when I don't want it on.

[beGi]

The keyboard change ist GREAT!

ESC and Del keys are some of the most used keys on the keyboard.
I don't even know if I ever used INSERT for a purpose. But I know that I hit it many times when typing blind and then was furious about tis stupid key

My thoughts exactly...

[outofin]

I'm a new user and immediately got a question about the position of left Ctrl key. Why is it not at the corner? I think they should switch the position of left ctrl and the function key. Ctrl C and ctrl V is obviously the most often used combinations. I don't even press the ctrl key by a finger, I just press it with my palm -- only if it's at the corner.

[dr_st]

I'm a new user and immediately got a question about the position of left Ctrl key. Why is it not at the corner?

Because it's been this way forever, and obviously they think it's less important or too big of a change... Shows what they know.

[qviri]

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[elray]

Because it's been this way forever, and obviously they think it's less important or too big of a change... Shows what they know.

Well, not exactly. IBM boldly swapped the Caps-Lock and Control keys with the rollout of the PC/AT, much to the chagrin of touch-typists everywhere.

I don't think the T400s keyboard change will do much harm, but it does illustrate that even the brightest engineers, sometimes, have too much time on their hands, and can overTHINK.

Mix in a few marketing dweebs, a few who don't type but fancy neon, a couple guest bean-counters from GM, a design consultant from Apple and Sony, and the next thing you know... we've got a "StylePad" with flat, mushy keys that change color, accessorized with a cupholder and cigarette lighter, and that "awful trackpoint" will be removed. Corporate will have to bribe consumers with rebates and coupons and 3G contracts and tie-ins with cellphones and car manufacturers and free Fanta; the resulting damage to the balance sheet will enable the aforementioned bean-counters to shut down the Thinkpad line when the company is "rescued" by Acer, HP, or Dell.

(Does anyone else have these nightmares?)