Customs ? sending TP between us and canada, giving as gifts

[andre#4]

I have found a member of the forum who wants to trade thinkpads with me. Mine is newer. His is older, but has features that I want.

I live in Pennsylvania, USA, he lives in Alberta, Canada.

We will be giving them to each other in an even trade. No money will be changing hands.

What does this mean for the customs duty?

On one hand the items are gifts, but on the other hand, we want to insure them for at least $800 or $900, because we don't want them getting lost or broken.

In addition, the net change is 0 for each country. There will be no thinkpads lost nor gained for either country, and the machines are probably equally valued. At least to us, we value them equally. Mine is probably worth more, but his has accessories and features that I want.

If declared value is 0, and insured value is $800, how does that not look suspicious as heck? We will never see these computers again, will we? LOL! The customs commandants will probably assume we are trying to defraud the government of their respective countries.

I have searched for info and come up with nothing except to avoid UPS. I plan to use US Postal Service.

If anyone can shed any light on the matter I would appreciate it. Neither one of us can afford to lose our machine to the government.

Particularly helpful would be a response from someone who has some experience dealing with these wonderful agencies.

Thank you very much in advance for any info at all.

(As it stands, I don't have too much hope for the deal, but that would be sad for me, because both parties are eager. I would get to have a thinkpad that says "IBM" on it! And an ips display. And the other guy gets a new state of the art machine that would cost him dearly otherwise.)

[RealBlackStuff]

How about you each take a weekend trip to e.g. Mackinac Island or Mackinaw City in Michigan, and swap TPs?

[ajkula66]

FYI, you can not declare value as 0 and insure it for a $100 or 1,000 or for that fact $10. USPS will not allow you to do that, period.

Insured value can only be equal or smaller than the declared value.

In all honesty, RBS's suggestion makes a lot of sense.

Good luck.

[andre#4]

We don't have time to drive these things to each other.

Any other ideas?

Is there a gift exemption?

An exemption for computer equipment? (like there is for cell phone equip)

how much is(are) the tax(taxes) anyway?

Has anyone sent anything over that border?

[ajkula66]

I've sold numerous ThinkPads to Canada and have always shipped them by USPS. Maybe one of my past customers on this forum will chime in and comment on taxes, or lack thereof...

Gift exemptions are a non-entity AFAIK, as is exemption for the computer equipment.

It's the customs officer pretty much anywhere in the world who has the final say on whether something gets charged import duty and so forth...

You may do very well and not pay a dime...and then again you may not be as lucky...however, I'd still declare full value on both machines and insure them, so you guys have some recourse if something gets damaged or just plain disappears...

My $0.02 only...

[emtee3511]

I rarely ship anything international with the exception of sending packages to my son, who is posted with US Army in Korea -- everything I send him is a gift, but I still have to fill out customs forms showing contents and stated value, even if I don't insure. On occasion I do insure if I am sending something special/expensive -- always show on customs forms the contents/value/insurance amount, and state it is a gift. I usually send a flat-rate USPS box to him every month, but it is an APO address -- so not sure whether rules are the same for non APO.

I recently gave an old battery to a forum member, so it was a gift -- Can't remember without checking, but I think I sent it to Switzerland -- I noted on customs forms the contents/value/no insurance, and that it was a gift. Sent it flat-rate USPS and again, no extra duty/taxes were charged. The forum member did reimburse my shipping cost, but I don't consider that any sort of payment for the battery. The battery was a gift.

The only other experience I had was sending a car-part (I know -- very weird gift, but was for a good friend for her birthday) to Canada from here in New Jersey. Since she is Canadian, she seemed to know the rules and told me to make sure forms were marked as "gift" -- I don't remember the value, but I do remember having to fill out the customs forms stating contents/value, and also stating it was a gift.

Seems to me that you are gifting your computer to a forum member, very similar to my gifting the battery to a forum member or my regularly sending gifts to my son in Korea. Also seems to me that if customs decides they are going to charge taxes, whether for my son's gifts to Korea, or for a battery I gift to a forum member, I would have no recourse except to pay the amount charged even if I disagree with the decision -- kinda out of my hands. For me, shipping with USPS Priority usually works like 'clockwork' -- but you never know, and for your computers I would absolutely purchase the insurance. I had to return an iPhone to a bad ebay Seller last year, and the USPS 'lost' the package. I'm guessing what actually happened is that USPS forgot to get the signature confirmation I had paid for and the Seller ended up with both the iPhone and his $$ from me because of USPS' mistake -- I had purchased insurance, so USPS quickly reimbursed me -- the only downside is my being convinced the dishonest Seller had profited from the USPS mistake --


Guess bottom line for me would be -- send computer as gift -- state value -- purchase insurance -- hope for the best good luck with your trade

[dsvochak]

Seems to me that you are gifting your computer to a forum member

Gift: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gift

The proposed transaction is clearly not a gift as there is compensation (the receipt of the other machine) involved.

[emtee3511]

Each to his own, I guess -- and whatever customs declares is what will govern -- but I do not see compensation if I am giving my computer to you and you are giving your computer to me -- there is no sale and no compensation -- If I pay you to babysit my kids, then there is a transaction -- if I offer to watch your kids on occasion without compensation, and you do the same for me on occasion, then that is just one person doing a favor for another -- not a business transaction. I absolutely see your point, but as in all things, there are several ways of looking at this trade -- just two club members/forum members trading out equipment -- no sale/no business transaction -- two gifts