Sour experience failing to extend warranty through Lenovo

[dr_st]

In the past few months I have been conducting a long and difficult affair with Lenovo's various departments, revolving around my attempt to purchase a warranty extension for my laptop. Unfortunately, my attempts were not successful, but in the process I've gained some insights regarding how things work. Some of these show Lenovo in a not-so-good light, which seems to add me to the list of customers recently made unhappy with the sales and service departments.

I've decided to share my story with you, and will try to do it in the most unbiased way possible. Everyone is free to conclude whatever they wish from my case, and I reckon at least some of this information might be interesting to the general audience.

Please forgive the great length of this post. I really would like to make it shorter, but the story is quite long, and my storytelling skills are not sufficient to tell it short, without losing important information. I will try to at least make it as organized and as clear as possible, so you can skim through it, and then decide what you want to read, if at all.

I wish to make two disclaimers upfront:

1) My case, although to me seemed quite reasonable was far from typical, which partly explains the problems, although in my opinion, still does not justify them.
2) Throughout the process all Lenovo employees and representatives, with whom I communicated, were polite and courteous, and I believe were trying to do the right thing to the best of their abilities, even if the outcome was not satisfactory. In my opinion, the problems were due to imperfections in the system, but not due to anyone's bad intent.

Now to the background:

The three year warranty on my T60 2007-QPG expires on 16-July-2010. I wanted to extend the warranty to the longest possible period, which is an extra two years to a total of 5.

As you may know, I reside in Israel. Some time last year I inquired with the local Lenovo representatives and was told that no warranty extensions over 3 years are being offered for this model. However, since such an extension is being sold in the US, and since the warranty on this model is international, I believed I should be able to purchase the extension through Lenovo US. A small inquiry I made on the Lenovo forums at that time suggested that it should be possible, provided that I use a credit card with a US billing address (later I found out that only AmEx will work for international cards, but that's beside the point). A short chat with a Lenovo US sales rep also suggested that it should be possible (verified against the specific extension FRU, the laptop type and serial).

Part 1: Placing the order

I decided to wait until the warranty date was closer, but not too close (to give me time to sort things out in case something goes wrong). In the beginning of 2010 I've finally decided to place the order. Already this turned out not as simple as one would think. I talked to several sales representatives on the phone, and came to the conclusion that there is a lot of confusion and sometimes lack of knowledge among the reps.

One claimed that the extension type 45K6025 (3yr to 5yr depot) is not applicable to my T60 model (even though it is exactly the one listed on Lenovo's website), but offered to sell me a different type, more expensive (and refused to match prices). Another claimed that my 3yr warranty (which came stock from the factory) constituted an upgrade, and so they cannot sell me "additional" warranty upgrades. Yet another claimed that they cannot sell me the extension, since I am in Israel (even though it should be international).

Based on reports on similar confusion by users on this forum, I was prepared for this, and was determined to go through with what seemed a reasonable process. I finally managed to talk to someone who - (a) confirmed that the warranty is international, and that the FRU matches the laptop type, and (b) agreed to match the lower price I've found on the web. The order was placed on February 12th, but appeared in the Lenovo order tracking system (http://www.lenovoorders.com) as "in progress" for quite a while. I made a few inquiries on the phone / mail, and was told that it is normal for the order to take 2 weeks to invoice (why?). But in any case, it finally appeared as "shipped" on March 3rd, 2010, and my credit card has been charged.

Part 2: Waiting... Calling... Waiting... Wondering... Escalating...

I was explained that once the warranty is "shipped" (meaning, registered), it should take about 2 weeks to appear on the web. So I waited, and waited. After 3 weeks of nothing, I called. The rep brought up the order detailed, and seemed quite puzzled that it hasn't been activated. I was told that a request has been dispatched to the back-end department, but no reply was received, and so they would just send the request again, and advised me to wait. So I waited more. And some more. Still nothing. Called again - same story. During this period I've also sent a couple of emails, and also received no reply.

Finally, I've given up on the process and did what many users did in similar situations after reaching a dead end with the sales/service department - turned to Mark on the Lenovo forums. At this point it was already late April, early May (with the order being booked in February).

In any case, Mark promised to help find out what was going on, and he did. In fact, I will go ahead and say, that in all this story, Mark was the only one who managed to give me a straight and timely answer, and I for that I thank him.

Part 3: The surprising answer and damage control

Unfortunately, the answer given by Mark was as disappointing as it was final. An inquiry with the back-end department revealed that the warranty cannot be activated, because the machine has been bought in Israel, and the extension is US-based. Turns out that that one rep (of the several I talked to) was actually right, and all the others were wrong.

Mark did admit that the situation is not ideal and somewhat strange: Since the warranty coverage itself is international, it is not clear why different extension FRUs have to be applied in different countries (Mark did mention that Lenovo is working towards a more global system). To me this seems like a somewhat artificial reason, since the warranty is nothing but a service agreement, and I don't see any technical reason making it impossible to update it, but rather a sales policy that dictates it should not be done.

However, I chose not to argue it, and still see no point in doing so. A policy is a policy, and the company has the right to set it and enforce it. Furthermore, my past experience with Lenovo clearly showed, that while there is often confusion in the front-end sales/service teams, the back-end teams are more organized, know the rules, and work by the book. Therefore, if this answer has been given, I did not see it likely to change. Especially, since I firmly believe that Mark would do his best to resolve any matter to the customer's satisfaction, and if he hasn't managed to do more, I did not think any more could be done.

Mark said that the sales team was to contact me and refund my money, and that I should purchase the extension in Israel. However, knowing that the extension is not being offered in Israel, I gave up on extending the warranty, and focused just on getting the refund.

Part 4: Closure

Despite what Mark said, nobody from the sales team contacted me about the refund. I decided not to wait any further and called myself. It took a while to explain the situation, and the phone rep had to verify it with the rep who actually has been involved in this case. And then a strange answer was given - I was told that completely against what I was just told by Mark - the warranty will be activated (based on some internal email received), and should appear in the system within 2-3 days.

Needless to say, I was very skeptical with the answer. But I waited just this little more out of courtesy. When nothing changed, I turned to the last possible resolve, which I did not want to turn to, but at this point I felt that, unless I want to spend a few more weeks/months dragging it out, I had no choice. After a final email, in which I made my intentions clear (which was not replied to), I contacted AmEx, explained the situation and filed a complaint disputing the purchase on the grounds of not getting any product/service for the money paid.

While waiting for the decision from AmEx, I went back and forth with the sales rep a few more times, trying to get a final answer from Lenovo. In the end, after he escalated the issue, it came back with the same answer Mark gave me earlier: not possible, sorry, nothing can be done.

At this point it was expected - any other answer would be a huge surprise for me. However, still, even after that answer, no refund was offered to me by the sales team. I asked for it explicitly, and received no reply yet again.

In parallel to that, AmEx refunded me the full amount (apparently, their inquiries were also not answered). So the money back I got. Not through the normal process, not in the way I would prefer, but still better than nothing.

Yesterday, after a saga of more than 4 months, I wrote a final email to the sales rep who has been dealing with this case, explaining the outcome and that I consider the case to be closed. So my attempts to extend the warranty on my machine to 5 years turned out futile, but since no damage was done other than the loss of time, I am willing to leave it at that.

The end?

This concludes the factual part of the story. I would like to conclude by raising several questions which I think should be carefully considered by someone in Lenovo. Leaving the main issue which caused this whole saga (inapplicability of a US-based warranty extension to an Israel-based machine) aside, I still cannot help but wonder:

* Why could not this problem be consistently and clearly stated by the sales reps?
* Why does the procedure make it possible to execute the order and charge the credit card before all necessary verifications are made by the back-end?
* How can a case stay in limbo for weeks without anyone contacting the customer to let them know there is a problem?
* Why not at least refund the customer immediately once it is found out that there is a problem which prevents the completion of the order?
* Why cannot the customer get a straight answer even after calling multiple times? Why does the customer have to go all the way to Mark on the forums to even find out what the problem is?
* Why even after receiving the answer from Mark, does it take so long to get it confirmed once again by the service reps (with additional erroneous information floating in between)?
* Why is it still not possible after all this to get a simple refund for a service never delivered, without disputing the charge with the credit card company?

To me, even with the disclaimers I made in the beginning of the post, this whole experience leaves a sour taste, and puts a crack in my faith in Lenovo's customer service. If you needed another piece of evidence that something there "is not ticking right", you've got it right here.

[ajkula66]

I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through this nonsense and accomplish nothing...the story, unfortunately, reeks incompetence and misconception of what the customer service is supposed to be...

Most of us here would agree that while Mark is a terrific guy and a huge asset to Lenovo, he can't possibly, humanly, grease all the squeaking wheels throughout the organization...

Very, very disappointing. I'll leave it at that for now...

[underclocker]

I'm also sorry to hear about this. I have two comments;

1) My experience is similar with warranty reps. The warranties confuse many reps., IBM/Lenovo (technology companies) should have a database that easily shows what is available as upgrade options for every model. Trying to use various PDFs or reseller databases to figure it out is crazy.

2) One possible reason why US machines can be extended to five years and those in some other countries not, may be due to parts inventories and economics. It's quite possible that stocking repair parts in Israel for every model to fulfill warranties for every model for five years, after the last unit of a model line is sold, just isn't cost effective. Perhaps IBM/Lenovo have actually analyzed the data?! Of course, if this is the case, perhaps it could be explained to reps. and customers that way.

I'm actually somewhat amazed (and impressed) that five year warranties are available anywhere on any machine. In general, laptops break.

[dr_st]

1) My experience is similar with warranty reps. The warranties confuse many reps.

Indeed that's the case. There were at least two documented cases on these forums in which the wrong warranty was sold by the front-end team, which resulted in it not being activated, and it took a lot of hassle to figure it out.

IBM/Lenovo (technology companies) should have a database that easily shows what is available as upgrade options for every model.

At least for US models, such a database exists: http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... D-WSU.html

2) One possible reason why US machines can be extended to five years and those in some other countries not, may be due to parts inventories and economics. It's quite possible that stocking repair parts in Israel for every model to fulfill warranties for every model for five years, after the last unit of a model line is sold, just isn't cost effective. Perhaps IBM/Lenovo have actually analyzed the data?!

It is a somewhat possible explanation, although with some reservations.

First, my experience shows that most parts are not in stock in Israel, but they order them from abroad when they are actually requested. Then again, they probably order them from Europe, not the US, so there is somewhere a stock there.

Second, the warranty itself is international. Nothing in the system (at least nothing I know of) would prevent me from ordering a machine in the US, sticking a 5-year warranty on it, then taking it to Madagascar, and expecting service. Granted, the percentage of people doing so is probably marginal compared to the overall customers base.

Finally, I am sure the average customer would be ready to accept a longer repair time (because there are no parts in stock and they have to be shipped), as long as the repair is actually being done. Although, to be fair, I am not even sure there is a direct connection; I've read enough complaints from US-based customers about machines being stuck in the repair center for weeks and months "waiting for parts", whereas I never had to wait for more than a week for a part here in Israel, whether it was in warranty or out of warranty (and then I had to pay for it, but I still got it quickly).

I'm actually somewhat amazed (and impressed) that five year warranties are available anywhere on any machine. In general, laptops break.

Indeed it is somewhat impressing, since the average laptop will require at least some service in the course of 5 years, and a non-negligible proportion might require serious service.

But it's not like it's free. There is quite some money paid to the manufacturer for this extra warranty. In my case, the cheapest price I could see for this extra 2-year upgrade was $145. To make it worthwhile, I'd have to have at least one core component (planar/LCD) or several smaller components in the course of these two years.

Many machines are sold with 1 year warranty, and to upgrade it to 5 years would cost between $230 and $300, almost half of the cost of some of the low-end laptops.

And sure enough, it is cheaper to upgrade 1yr to 3yr than 3yr to 5yr, so the increase of the failure probabilities with age is being taken into account.