Thinkpads Forum

Hello,

After 5 years with a T60 (C2D, 2GB RAM, 15" 1400x1050 Flexview, I have upgraded to Win7Pro and an Intel SSD, otherwise stock specs), I am itching for an upgrade. The main reasons are: 1) the CPU fan is very noisy (I have cleaned it as much as I could and I use TPfancontrol to reduce the issue, and I don't feel like replacing the fan altogether, don't feel very confident about it) 2) the PC feels a bit old and slow. I don't use it for much more than web browsing, but sometimes I feel it struggles with certain heavy websites, esp if they have video etc. Anyway, I don't need an excuse, after 5 years I believe I am entitled to a new toy!

The problem is I can't find a model that has all that I want. Here are some things I (think I) can't live without:
- Trackpoint
- Good keyboard
- Good screen, IPS, matte and non-reflective, around 14-15 inches, at least 1400x1050 resolution (in widescreen it has to be bigger in both dimensions, although I would prefer 4:3 form factor but I know that sadly that doesn't exist any more)
- Good CPU, GPU, connectivity etc. Not really fussy about specs here as I'm sure all modern models will be much better than my 5-yr old Thinkpad. The problem is that the basics (screen, etc.) seem to be getting worse as years go by (I sound like an old man, "they don't make them like they used to"!).
- I would like USB3 and a built-in webcam
- Doesn't need to have an optical drive, in fact it's better if it doesn't to save weight, volume and maybe cost.
- I don't care about hard drive, I will install an SSD anyway (if it's not replaceable, then I want a model with SSD, but it's better if it's replaceable)
- I don't care about OS, I have purchased Win 7 and will transfer it from my current laptop.

Normally I would go to Lenovo.com and check the newest Thinkpads. I did, and read some reviews too, and it seems that the screens are not as good (see my point above) and I don't like upgrading to a model with a worse screen than my current one (arguably the most important hardware part of a laptop).

So, any suggestions??

Another thought might be a Frankenpad. I will check the marketplace for available options, but up to what kind of specs can I expect from a custom built/modified Thinkpad?

None of current ThinkPad models conforms to the requirement.

Good screen, IPS, least 1400x1050 resolution - no ThinkPad model offers it (except X220 but low res only)
Good keyboard - if you can live with the broken keyboard layout only ...

Check Asus-Zenbook-UX32. 13.3" 1920x1080 IPS display, crappy keyboard layout (similar to current ThinkPads) and no trackpoint.

Might be a bit of a hunk but the W520 seems to fill most of them except the IPS panel. Though I can say that the high gamut FHD display on it is quite beautiful. But, I guess at the end of the day it's still a TN panel and the slightly better viewing angles than some of the other TN panels available only do so much. Otherwise, there's the T530 with FHD display, however, same story with the panel and the chiclet keyboard isn't very favourable(to me anyway).
On the other side of the fence(heretic I know), there is the Dell M4600 but it's on the wallet munching side especially with the IPS panel being a $400 option. Though I can't say that their TrackPoint equivalent is as good as a ThinkPad's

Maybe that's where we're headed. The age of the perfect laptop is passing

The other options being the HP 8560w or 8570w, but like the Dell, they quite expensive. I don't know why your T60 feels slow. My R60e, which is of the same era, does very well for daily duty.

The 15.6" Dell Precision and HP Elitebook would be the closest to what you are asking for. They use premium material and feel robust, but the tradeoff is they are very heavy, especially the HP.

Latios wrote:On the other side of the fence(heretic I know), there is the Dell M4600 but it's on the wallet munching side especially with the IPS panel being a $400 option. Though I can't say that their TrackPoint equivalent is as good as a ThinkPad's

I don't know if this is true for all HP Business laptops but at least some of them can use Thinkpad trackpoint caps. I had an HP nc2400 whose original cap was awful, so I swapped it out for a Thinkpad Soft Rim and it worked great. Other people have done the same thing on other models.

Latios wrote:Maybe that's where we're headed. The age of the perfect laptop is passing

Was there ever a "perfect" laptop? To me, my Panasonic Toughbook CF-Y7 is almost perfect, but not exactly.

Puppy wrote: Check Asus-Zenbook-UX32. 13.3" 1920x1080 IPS display, crappy keyboard layout (similar to current ThinkPads) and no trackpoint.

Looks great except for the lack of trackpoint

Latios wrote:Might be a bit of a hunk but the W520 seems to fill most of them except the IPS panel. Though I can say that the high gamut FHD display on it is quite beautiful. But, I guess at the end of the day it's still a TN panel and the slightly better viewing angles than some of the other TN panels available only do so much. Otherwise, there's the T530 with FHD display, however, same story with the panel and the chiclet keyboard isn't very favourable(to me anyway).
On the other side of the fence(heretic I know), there is the Dell M4600 but it's on the wallet munching side especially with the IPS panel being a $400 option. Though I can't say that their TrackPoint equivalent is as good as a ThinkPad's

Maybe that's where we're headed. The age of the perfect laptop is passing

I would prefer a smaller laptop ideally, these are both quite large and heavy, and unnecessarily expensive (i.e. I don't need a desktop replacement, so why pay for one?)

ZaZ wrote:The other options being the HP 8560w or 8570w, but like the Dell, they quite expensive. I don't know why your T60 feels slow. My R60e, which is of the same era, does very well for daily duty.

Sometimes the browser is very slow (I do tend to have A LOT of tabs open, I admit) and high res video on youtube is choppy.

markos wrote:and high res video on youtube is choppy.

Do you use Flash Player or an experimental HTML5 player in recent browsers ? The Flash Player is very tricky because it is unable to use hardware acceleration due various conditions.

There is finally a Thinkpad for you: The X1 Carbon. I must say I was very surprised to learn that its 14" screen is IPS, because the screen doesn't look so great in this CNET video. This is the first Lenovo Thinkpad since the X201s that got me fairly excited. 1600x900 is a tad on the low side, but everything else seems pretty good. If it had 1920x1080, I would declare this the best Thinkpad ever.

pianowizard wrote:I must say I was very surprised to learn that its 14" screen is IPS, because the screen doesn't look so great

No, I still don't believe that. I'd wait for a serious review first.

EDIT there is http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/08/lenovo ... on-review/ another review (08/08/2012) with pictures that reveals it is typical TN panel.

And it seems to be even worse than expected because the reviewer has noticed that (quote from the review): "I’m not sure that most people would notice this, but I can see the sub-pixel pattern on the screen when looking at it from a bit less than a couple of feet. This means that when I’m looking at a color that should a “flat grey” for example, I’m seeing a bit of the structure that make up each pixel. That’s pretty unusual, and I was hoping for something better here. This reminds me of the pentile pattern that we sometime see on smartphones."

pianowizard wrote:If it had 1920x1080, I would declare this the best Thinkpad ever.

It lacks proper keyboard to be real ThinkPad. But yes, it is Lenovo product that would be interesting.

More competition: Vizio is entering the market with a.o. a notebook with an IPS screen
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/computers/viz ... 99-99/8306

RealBlackStuff wrote:More competition: Vizio is entering the market with a.o. a notebook with an IPS screen

Lenovo is hopeless They've saved $20 on display component and made completely non-competitive product (again). According the review I imagine the display is worse than the 15.6" FHD used in T5x0 models.

Puppy wrote:Lenovo is hopeless They've saved $20 on display component and made completely non-competitive product (again).

I really don't think that's to save money, but instead to shave off a few grams and to prolong the battery. High-quality screens are heavier and consume more power. The chiclet keyboard also weighs less than traditional Thinkpad keyboards, and it looks nicer as well IMO.

Vizio used a different approach to keep their CT15 light: Vizio didn't want to give up the IPS FHD panel, but instead opted to use a lousy keyboard and an even worse touchpad to reduce weight. I was hoping to try a Vizio CT15 at Sam's Club last weekend but they didn't have one in stock. Hopefully I will get to play with one soon to see if its keyboard and touchpad are really as bad as people claim.

pianowizard wrote:The chiclet keyboard also weighs less than traditional Thinkpad keyboards, and it looks nicer as well IMO.

It's easier to clean too.

pianowizard wrote:High-quality screens are heavier and consume more power.

I don't think so in case of 6-bit e-IPS panels.

Puppy wrote:I don't think so in case of 6-bit e-IPS panels.

I bet the lightest e-IPS panel would still be slightly heavier than the crappiest TN panel. Notice that the official weight of the X1 Carbon is 2.998 lbs, indicating that Lenovo tried very hard to bring the weight below the 3-lb mark. Even if the lightest e-IPS panel weighs only 0.003 lbs more, the laptop's weight would be 3.001 lbs and Lenovo would no longer be able to advertise it as a "sub-3lb ultrabook". Besides, Lenovo may already have tons of this crappy TN panel in stock for the T4**, and so it's easier to just keep using them on the X1 Carbon.

pianowizard wrote:Notice that the official weight of the X1 Carbon is 2.998 lbs, indicating that Lenovo tried very hard to bring the weight below the 3-lb mark. Even if the lightest e-IPS panel weighs only 0.003 lbs more, the laptop's weight would be 3.001 lbs and Lenovo would no longer be able to advertise it as a "sub-3lb ultrabook"

Interesting parameter. Now we can only speculate whether more customers are keen for exactly < 3lbs weight or rather non-crappy display. Imagine following conversation:

A: Hi, your ThinkPad display looks so crappy !
B: Hey, but my ThinkPad weights exactly below 3 lbs !
A: Well. Do you carry it here and there most of the time or rather look on the display ?
B: Umm ...

pianowizard wrote:I really don't think that's to save money, but instead to shave off a few grams and to prolong the battery.

Either way it's dumb (IMHO only).

pianowizard wrote:Notice that the official weight of the X1 Carbon is 2.998 lbs, indicating that Lenovo tried very hard to bring the weight below the 3-lb mark.

It's a good thing people in Lenovo know what really matters.

Full ACK to Puppy.

dr_st wrote:Either way it's dumb (IMHO only).

To me, shaving off a few grams is slightly less dumb than saving $20. However, as much as I am obsessed with minimizing weight, I would rather have a 3.2lb X1 Carbon with a decent screen (doesn't need to be IPS though) than a 2.998lb configuration with the industry's worst screen.

I wholeheartedly agree with all the comments about the screen. I'm sure there's a market for the lightest laptop out there but for sure there's a market for a quality laptop. I'd rather have a 4lb laptop with good screen, keyboard, solid construction etc. than a light craptop. I hope the next generation of the carbon or another version of it gets it right. In the mean time I'll stick to my current one or get a Frankenpad.

dr_st wrote:It's a good thing people in Lenovo know what really matters.

Yes, it is ranked as No.1 feature in ThinkPad X1 Carbon: Three Numbers That Matter article

Puppy wrote:Yes, it is ranked as No.1 feature in ThinkPad X1 Carbon: Three Numbers That Matter article

The unfortunate reality is that the general public is unaware of the importance of several other numbers: screen contrast, viewing angles, and even resolution.

The spec sheet indicates the weight as 3.094 lbs: http://www.lenovo.com/shop/americas/con ... _specs.pdf . So which one is right, 3.094 lbs or 2.998 lbs?

The question is not which one is right, but why anyone would give a dam. It's bad enough to use retarded units like pounds to measure weight, but to also obsess about fractions of them? (unless it's for fun statistical purposes as we do on the forum)

dr_st wrote:It's bad enough to use retarded units like pounds to measure weight

You mean, we should use newtons? Grams or kg would be equally retarded, since these are units for mass!

dr_st wrote:but to also obsess about fractions of them? (unless it's for fun statistical purposes as we do on the forum)

Of course, it's just for fun, although a 0.1-lb difference does have a psychological impact for some people, including me LOL! Differences exceeding around 0.3 lbs do begin to have a real impact though.

pianowizard wrote:The spec sheet indicates the weight as 3.094 lbs

Good catch

dr_st wrote:The question is not which one is right, but why anyone would give a dam.

+1

And one thing overlooked often, is that there are two different pound weights in use! (apart from the numerous obscure, odd ones from the olden days).
1) the archaic-and-should-be-banned-worldwide imperial pound as used in USA (0.45359237 kg)
2) the metric pound, which most of the civilized world uses (0.5 kg)
Ask the wife/girlfriend which weight she would prefer:
- 132 pounds (imperial = 60 KG) or
- 120 pounds (metric = 60 KG)

Sony Vaio SV-S1511X9E/B http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Son ... 171.0.html
- 15.5" 1920x1080 IPS (glossy )
- 2 kg

Puppy wrote:Sony Vaio SV-S1511X9E/B http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Son ... 171.0.html
- 15.5" 1920x1080 IPS (glossy )
- 2 kg

No trackpoint.