Thinkpads Forum

So I want a faster, more capable computer than my current T60p (2623-DDU), and I’m willing to invest a decent bit of coin into purchasing a high-performing current model.

The problem is that current Thinkpad models seem to be lacking in some ways. To be fair, I’m not that familiar with current models, but they seem to have drawbacks from my initial investigations. This has me wondering if a “frankenpad” is a viable option, especially because it appears I could use my current laptop as the base for that route.

The form factor of my existing laptop is near ideal – size, weight, 4:3 anti-glare flexview screen with a great keyboard. It seems that current screens are inferior to my flexview, and I guess I’d have to accept that nobody really offers 4:3 anymore. Also, it appears all new models come with the chiclet-style keyboard. I’ve only tried Lenovo’s version on the lower-end models available in chain stores (did not like), as I have no local seller of Thinkpads where I could see the keyboard on those models. Regardless, I can’t see that I’d prefer those keyboards to my current one. Similarly, I have no direct experience with current screens. Perhaps they look almost as good?

So if I go new, are there any good options that don’t trade off too much in screen quality or keyboard feel? If I were to go the frankenpad route, how close in performance can I get to current offerings? I guess I could go to a different brand, but I require a trackpoint as I can’t stand trackpads, and I'm a pretty loyal Thinkpad guy.

I appreciate any feedback that folks could provide. Thanks.

If you are interested in FrankenPads (T60/p with T61/p motherboard and LED-backlit IPS/Flexview UXGA), look at this: The Ultimate FrankenPad...
I could build that again...

What TP to get will really depend on your computing requirements balanced by the features that you need/require.

I love my current Frankenpad (T60 15" sxga+ Flexview and T61 MB). For what I do, which is mainly web browsing, MS Office and some Photoshop, it's about the perfect laptop for me. The flexview screen is absolutely gorgeous and it's only a sxga+ screen too. I've upgraded everything; T9500, 256 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, and an Intel Ultimate N 6300. IMO, the classic Thinkpad keyboard was the best ever made for a laptop. In contrast my T420 is hardly ever used. I simply don't need the extra computing power of the T420. When I need more computing power, it's hard to beat my desktop with dual 27" IPS displays. To my eyes, the old Flexview screens are a must have. It really is hard to go back to the typical mediocre screens of today.

If you can afford it, the Frankenpads that RealBlackStuff can produce is about as good as it gets.

As for the new keyboards, i'm under the impression that the new ThinkPad keyboards are better than the new IdeaPad keyboards. The few new IdeaPad keyboards that i've seen have some flex, i couldn't see any flex on an X230 keyboard. The new keyboards are better than the old ones in one aspect: the user can hit the keys further off centre without erroneously hitting adjacent keys. Some users have reported that they find it difficult to adjust to the new keyboard layout.

I've tried a T61 with an XGA panel and Intel chipset graphics with a 2 GHz dual core processor. Just watching videos on that ThinkPad taxes the processor up to 91%. I can imagine that a FrankenPad with a 1600*1200 panel might require more graphics power than what the Intel chipset graphics can offer, so you might run into problems if you use a motherboard with the Intel chipset graphics and an UXGA panel. Also keep in mind that one of the more powerful graphics chip alternatives for T61 motherboards, the NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 140M chips, have a long and sad history of failure.

If you read the T6x forum properly, you may have noticed that not ALL nVidia chips fail, or are bad...
The Frankies that I build have all been tested 'through the roof', especially the ones with nVidia graphics!
And those include several with the even more powerful nVidia FX570M chip!
And all of them include Penryn CPUs, which are way more powerful than the low-class 2GHz T7300 you refer to!

What I don't understand is why people want to watch videos an a laptop.
That's what you got television for!
Besides: these FrankenPads have the much more (business-)useful 4:3 screens instead of those (business-)useless 16:9 widescreens!

If i understand the nVidia problem on the T61 correctly, a NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 140M chip that was manufactured before August 2008 and stands your test this week, can still fail next week. And i'm not trying to convince the OP not to get a FrankenPad, i just mention a few facts that he might want to consider.

Any electronic or mechanical system can fail in the next hour or last for another 10 years. I've had about 10 T61 with NV 140M and none have failed (so far). Only 2 was manufactured after 08/08 but that doesn't guarantee nothing. For those that were built before 08/08, they have lived a nice long life. All will, one way or another, die down the road.

All of my T61 were bought for cheap so I'm willing to accept that risk. My Frankenpad was more $$$ so I was careful to source from a good source in order to put the odds higher in my favour. But I realized and accepted that nothing is 100% guarantee to never ever fail. For me the decision to go or not go with a Frankenpad was not the $$$ or risk of GPU failure. The biggest decisive factor was the Flexview screen.

On occasion I'll play a 1080p video on my T61 while camping and have absolutely no problem whatsoever. For really intensive video editing or anything CPU intensive, my desktop rig with is way more powerful. Right tool for the right job and the operator will go a long way.

Unfortunately, there are no simple answers here...

If OP wants to go with a *truly* modern machine that sports a top-shelf screen, he has no choice but to kiss both the ThinkPads and the classic keyboard goodbye and buy a Dell or HP. And, of course, 4:3 aspect ratio...given that everything is 16:9 nowadays, apart from Macs...

It all really depends on one's requirements. If 8GB of RAM (by far the biggest real-life limitation of any FrankenPad platform) is sufficient, there's no reason not to have a Frankie built.

Having likely owned more FrankenPads than anyone around here, in all configurations but one (never had a FX570M/QXGA combo) I'll state that an Intel board coupled with a Penryn CPU - preferably T9300/9500 - is the way to go if one is looking for a machine that will see strictly office-type use.

For anything more graphic-intensive, nVidia is the only way to go.

The good news is that NOS boards with updated GPUs are available, and while not inexpensive, likely to grant peace of mind to their new owner.

There's also something to be said about *properly* testing an older nVidia-based planar. Out of all the FrankenPads that RBS and myself have produced with "unsafe" chips, none has failed so far. Fact of the matter is, 99% of the people don't bother stressing out their T61/p machines/planars properly, expecting not to make any money on them due to the dark cloud of the nVidia issue in the first place.

I understand the sentiment. I really do. Putting a machine through the grinder for several hundred hours to have it possibly fail at some point in the game is not something a vast majority of the folks see as a viable project. Personally, I prefer something failing in my house if at all possible when compared to kicking the bucket in the hands of its new owner. That's why I test my stuff to the point that most people would consider outright insane. Nevertheless, that's the only approach that I subscribe to.

There is no perfect laptop that I'm aware of, and compromises must be made.

Only OP can decide what are the most important components of the equation are for his particular needs.

If it's a great screen, coupled with a proper keyboard, a FrankenPad of some kind is really his only option.

OP here. Thanks for the feedback so far.

My usage is pretty much business-style usage and extensive web-surfing. I don't watch movies on my laptop, but I do want to be able to fully experience web media without the slowdowns and stuttering I currently get from resource-intensive sites.

I'll admit that the RAM limitations of a Frankenpad concern me, as I usually have tons of stuff open at the same time and have frequently cursed my current limited memory. I may have 3 or 4 Office programs running, photo-editing software, and browsers with a large number of tabs open. I like to multi-task and switch between activities often, so I keep everything open.

BTW, I also want a faster wireless connection to make full use of the speed of my FIOS service.

If current Thinkpads aren't an appealing option, are there non-Lenovo options that are superior with respect to keyboard and screen? I only know of Dell that offers trackpoint options. Incidentally, what kind of cost could I expect to incur for a Frankenpad if I was looking to push the upper performance tier?

hobbes wrote:OP here. Thanks for the feedback so far.

My usage is pretty much business-style usage and extensive web-surfing. I don't watch movies on my laptop, but I do want to be able to fully experience web media without the slowdowns and stuttering I currently get from resource-intensive sites.

You won't get any of that with a Penryn/nVidia machine. No stuttering. No ifs, ands or buts.

I'll admit that the RAM limitations of a Frankenpad concern me, as I usually have tons of stuff open at the same time and have frequently cursed my current limited memory. I may have 3 or 4 Office programs running, photo-editing software, and browsers with a large number of tabs open. I like to multi-task and switch between activities often, so I keep everything open.

I've never managed to outgrow 8GB. That being said, if you're running several VMs or something along those lines, you might. Anything else that you've mentioned so far will be a smooth sailing with 8GB.

BTW, I also want a faster wireless connection to make full use of the speed of my FIOS service.

I've been getting 450Mbps with Atheros-chipped cards. Do you need more than that?

If current Thinkpads aren't an appealing option, are there non-Lenovo options that are superior with respect to keyboard and screen? I only know of Dell that offers trackpoint options. Incidentally, what kind of cost could I expect to incur for a Frankenpad if I was looking to push the upper performance tier?

HP offers trackpoint as well, and that one will take a ThinkPad cap.

Dell's keyboard is better IMO, but HP's trackpoint (with a proper cap) is vastly superior. Pick your poison, so to speak.

As for cost of a FrankenPad, that depends on a zillion factors. Contact RealBlackStuff and check for yourself...

ajkula66 wrote:I've never managed to outgrow 8GB. That being said, if you're running several VMs or something along those lines, you might. Anything else that you've mentioned so far will be a smooth sailing with 8GB.

I agree. I am notorious for running lots of programs at once and the other day, I was running so many applications that they more than tiled my 7 huge monitors totaling 18 megapixels. I thought I was using nearly all my computer's 12GB of RAM, but Task Manager showed that I was using barely over 4GB.

These days, even the cheapest computers usually come with 4GB RAM, which may give the impression that 4GB is barely enough, but that's actually plenty for the vast majority of users. hobbes, don't let the 8GB limit discourage you from getting a Frankenpad. 8GB is almost 3 times what you currently have on your T60p.

ajkula66 wrote:HP offers trackpoint as well, and that one will take a ThinkPad cap.

Any idea which model this is? HP's site isn't too helpful with identifying which models have trackpoints.

EliteBooks have them, at least the higher-end ones...8570, 8770...

On another note: when looking at HP, make sure that it has a DreamColor IPS panel...otherwise you might come out with a cheaper but disappointing machine...all of these screens nowadays are FHD (1920x1080) but the resolution per se doesn't mean you're getting a DC panel...so proceed with caution.

hobbes wrote:Any idea which model this is? HP's site isn't too helpful with identifying which models have trackpoints.

Just Google up photos of different Elitebook models.

ajkula66 wrote:On another note: when looking at HP, make sure that it has a DreamColor IPS panel...otherwise you might come out with a cheaper but disappointing machine...

I agree. DreamColor is the main appeal of the premium Elitebooks, and if you aren't upgrading to DreamColor, you might as well go with a cheaper business-class laptop like a Thinkpad or a Latitude.