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Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:15 pm
by tbessie
Just a question - do you suppose that when Lenovo comes out in the fall with their new Haswell lineup, they will ALL be touchscreen devices running Windows 8? Or do you think Lenovo will keep a few of them non-touchscreen and running Windows 7?

I'm a software developer, and really don't enjoy having/using a touchscreen nor the Metro interface, so I'm hoping they keep a few things "old-fashioned".

- Tim

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:47 pm
by wolfman
It's really anyone's guess. However, if I had to put forth a guess, I'd say that they'd be Windows 8 and touch screens on the mid to upper models and non-touch with touch screen option on low end machines. But that and a $1 will get you a sweet tea at McDonald's right now (sans tax :mrgreen: ).

What I'm driving at is that Lenovo and the Thinkpad line are following the herd - I would expect the needs of software developers (I'm one), engineers (other than for maybe the W series with CAD / CAM certifications for video cards), old school Thinkpaders, etc won't matter much. We're not the target market, the masses are.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:37 am
by tbessie
wolfman wrote:It's really anyone's guess. However, if I had to put forth a guess, I'd say that they'd be Windows 8 and touch screens on the mid to upper models and non-touch with touch screen option on low end machines. But that and a $1 will get you a sweet tea at McDonald's right now (sans tax :mrgreen: ).

What I'm driving at is that Lenovo and the Thinkpad line are following the herd - I would expect the needs of software developers (I'm one), engineers (other than for maybe the W series with CAD / CAM certifications for video cards), old school Thinkpaders, etc won't matter much. We're not the target market, the masses are.
Thanks for your thoughts!

I wonder, though - I mean, software developers still have to, ya know, develop software. They have to use SOME computer that is powerful to do their work. And sometimes they'll have to use a laptop. There are big software development companies (eg. Microsoft, Google) that do a lot of development, and their developers will need machines. Where will they get them?

I'm sure that we can always use a desktop style machine, but what about laptops?

I ran into a Google developer recently, and he says Google makes their workers drink the coolade - everyone gets a ChromeBook for their laptop, and if they need power they remote in. That's possibly also for security (they don't want their code out in the wild where it can be stolen, I guess).

But there will always be a need for developers to carry a powerful laptop, or so I suppose. I wonder who'll be makin' 'em, if anyone?

- Tim

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:39 am
by RealBlackStuff
I was an IBM mainframe programmer before I retired, and did website development as a hobby on the side.
Used Assembler, Cobol, Fortran, RPG II, SQL/DB2 and other IBM stuff on the mainframe, and Basic, PL/1, C, C++, Pascal, Python, PHP, Javascript, CSS, HTML, etc. on the PC/laptop.
All I ever needed on the PC/laptop was a good text editor (I use EditpadPro) and a few compilers.
And all this never needed more than the most basic stuff, not any powerful machine!
AFAIK only mainframe programmers need powerful machines for their compilations.
Anything developed for a PC/Laptop does not!
Been there, done that for over 30 years...

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:50 pm
by tbessie
RealBlackStuff wrote:I was an IBM mainframe programmer before I retired, and did website development as a hobby on the side.
Used Assembler, Cobol, Fortran, RPG II, SQL/DB2 and other IBM stuff on the mainframe, and Basic, PL/1, C, C++, Pascal, Python, PHP, Javascript, CSS, HTML, etc. on the PC/laptop.
All I ever needed on the PC/laptop was a good text editor (I use EditpadPro) and a few compilers.
And all this never needed more than the most basic stuff, not any powerful machine!
AFAIK only mainframe programmers need powerful machines for their compilations.
Anything developed for a PC/Laptop does not!
Been there, done that for over 30 years...
Hi RealBlackStuff!

I'm semi-old (49), and started programming as a kid, so I got to do mainframe development for a bit too (Fortran, RPG, etc.), did Unix kernel work, and now I'm doing Java development, so I've spanned many styles.

Back in the day, I too just needed a good editor (Vi, now Vim, mostly). For a long time I held out against the tide, but in projects like what I'm now using, a lightweight laptop just wouldn't cut it. For example, my work environment is running Eclipse with multiple JVMs, a JBoss server (EJBs and other Java technologies, etc.), GWT (Google Web Toolkit) in DEV mode (requires another JVM), running GWT compiles which are huge multithreaded compiles that use a lot of memory, plus whatever other processes are needed to do my work (eg. running a database client like TOAD for Oracle).

For the above, most of our machines have 16gb of memory are running dual-core/hyper-threaded (4 effective core) processors, 7200rpm drives, etc. (they gave us laptops for some reason, and they're big honking DELL workstation style laptops, too big to lug around really).

What we could really use is something like the Sony Vaio Z1311 (now discontinued) that I own: 16gb ram (the vaio only has 8gb unfortunately), dual SATA-3 SSDs in RAID0, full-power mobile quad-core (8 effective cores) processor, etc.

For "full stack" development (granted, I'm not running a database server directly on my machine, but would like to be able to), it really helps a lot to have a machine that powerful. And when you're developing in Eclipse with a truly HUGE codebase (much of which you're not familiar with as other people are working on much of it), you need all that power to keep referential integrity between a great number of cooperating entities (both code and applications).

Again, I could build a machine myself that had these specs, but it wouldn't be in laptop form. For the work I do, it would be really helpful. Luckily, I got the Vaio before they discontinued it, but would love to update it someday with something as powerful in current chipsets.

- Tim

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:22 pm
by QWERTY Andreas
TBH i dont understand the fuzz about the touchscreens; If you dont like it, disable it or just stop using it. Except if you are a photoeditor, who needs superB color acccuracy - but there might be something for them too.

And Lenovo are good at making their machines backward compatible (win 7). So i think that will Work well too.

The thing im worried about is the new bettery design and the new thermal design.. And the lack of easy serviceability of the parts (im not thinking simple stuff as RAM and Wifi Cards here...)

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:04 pm
by loyukfai
QWERTY Andreas wrote:The thing im worried about is the new bettery design and the new thermal design.. And the lack of easy serviceability of the parts (im not thinking simple stuff as RAM and Wifi Cards here...)
Ditto.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:50 am
by Medessec
Honestly I think I'd be seeing touchscreens across the board on the Thinkpad lineup, seeing how a lot of lower-end laptops are sporting touchscreens. Well... I dunno if it'll be the case for the Haswell Thinkpads, but in the next few years, I can imagine all the lower-end models having the finger touchscreens with some multi-touch functionality, for web browsing and navigating Windows 8. The higher-end Thinkpads I'd imagine would have either no touchscreen if they're super-traditional moblie workstations, or they'd have a fancy touchscreen that would be more suited for creativity and graphics arts, and maybe even CAD navigation.

There's no question all the Haswell Thinkpads will have Windows 8. I haven't seen Windows 7 on a new computer... at all in the past few months. Maybe as an option... but I doubt it.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:30 pm
by bill bolton
Medessec wrote:There's no question all the Haswell Thinkpads will have Windows 8.
Given the likely release timing, they will probably come with Windows 8.1.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:33 pm
by ZaZ
tbessie wrote:I'm a software developer, and really don't enjoy having/using a touchscreen nor the Metro interface, so I'm hoping they keep a few things "old-fashioned".
I don't know why Microsoft and PC makers feel the need to jam touch down our throats. In my time using notebooks and PCs, I've never once wanted to touch the screen. It makes total sense on a tablet, convertible or otherwise, but not on a PC. The other issue is the glare touch screens add. There's some good notebooks out there that I would never buy because of the glare. The Dell XPS 13 comes to mind.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:39 pm
by pianowizard
I would like to get a touchscreen laptop for the following two reasons. First, a good way to avoid repetitive strain injury is to periodically switch among several different input methods. Now and then, I type and click so much that I suffer carpal tunnel syndrome. Second, when a document or a web page is very large or has many pages, scrolling becomes annoying and I think touching would be easier (based on my experience on tablets).

Once I have actually started to use touchscreen laptops, I may have additional reasons for wanting to touch the screen.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:20 am
by ZaZ
I don't doubt in a group as large as notebook users there will be people who want a touch screen, but that group is small in my experience and even those who have it, don't use it much. At least give us a choice.

Re: Will future Haswell Thinkpads all use Windows 8/Touchscreen?

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:50 pm
by bill bolton
I have an X1CT and hardly ever use the "touch screen" aspect at all with Win 8...... however, its clear enough to me that having a "touch screen" is going to be part of the must have it to considered market selling points for all laptops from now on, so it will come whether we use or not (just like a touchpad).

Cheers,

Bill B.