T. Advanced dock and qpu questions

[Crazycow]

Hello dear friends!

I am in need of advise, and I know there is no better place than this forum!

Some years ago, I got my z61t as my laptop and I love it!
It has its limitations and flaws, but I was very happy that for my basic on-the-go needs I could use a thinkpad! As time passed and life moved on, I found myself using it more and more, until last year when it became my primary machine!
Eventually, I reached the conclusion that if it had an actual GPU I could completely abandon my old desktop (Pentium D).
So I bought an advanced dock, which is awesome even without the gpu ^^ No more unplugging and plugging countless wires! But I want to also add a psu to be able to play some games as well.

I have done a lot of reading, and I know the limitations of the dock are the following:
Max TDP: 50-55w
Max Height: 111.15 mm / 4.376 in
Max Length: 167.65 / 6.6 in

According to the information I found online, the best possible cards (without an extra psu), would be the GT 640 (rev 2) and the HD 7750.

But here is where I need some help

1) Is there any 7750 that would physicaly fit in the slot? I have seen people mentioning it on various threads but none reported any specific model, and all of them seem to be bigger.

2) As I cannot really understand, based on these two webpages, which card is better?
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/b763/c ... ofile.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/b2005/ ... t-640.html
I would assume that the 7750 is due to the greater numbers, but why do they have so similar GFLOPS?

3) Is there any real advantage of using a stronger card or is the pcie bottleneck too great?

4) Would a x8 pcie like the one above physicaly fit in the x16 slot? Would it work? Does it mater that the slot is in reality x1?

5) Will my laptops slow core duo bottleneck the gpus? ^^

but I am anyway happy that I wont have to endure the limitations of gma 950 anymore

Ah! it is worth mentioning the following, my z61t specs:
32 bit windows 7
1.83 t2400 core duo
4gb ram
60gb OS ssd
and the dock is the newer version that says “thinkpad” instead of “ibm”

Thank you for your time reading this, and apologies if i wrote too much

[Saucey]

3: Its not the PCI-E is a bottleneck, its the fact that it cant hold a GPU that takes the size of two slots.

2: Comparing GPUs is tough, but I recommend PassMark Software's GPU Benchmarks.
It lists what the GPU scores on their site and it also lists the price/performance value as well.

The GT640 is made by nVidia and the HD 7750 is made by ATI/AMD, which they have different numbers, they choose to do so.
Also another thing to consider is which manufacturer you're buying the unit from.
Not every GPU is equal, a manufacturer might have more than one unit using that same chipset, but they'll have an overclock option, more fans, more ports, etc.

5: The processor will affect some loading times yes, but the GPU is what makes the difference when it comes to video editing and gaming.
An SSD will add to the benefit as well, yeah it is good to have a strong processor but once you make the leap from integrated graphics to dedicated it is hard to go back and stay.

I believe the docks are the same, minus maybe some build qualities and of course the sticker.

[dr_st]

Congrats on the Z61t, it's a very nice old machine - one of my favorites. Very elegantly designed. Pleased to know it has more fans.

With that said, no GPU upgrade will make it a beast in new games. You need to understand that. It will be leaps and bound better than the GMA950, yes, but don't expect anything comparable to modern laptops. The CPU will also bottleneck you in the new games.

However, if your reference point is the Pentium D, which is ancient as well, then it may be comparable.

Also, I expect you know that you can only use an external LCD with the GPU, not the built-in screen of the Z61t.

[Crazycow]

Hello mates and thanks for the replies!

I decided I will go with the GT 640 rev 2 because:
-it was physically smaller and would definitely fit
-it will allow better ventilation
-it had a significantly better performance to cost ratio

I will post the results here when I test it in order to provide google-able info to others

3: Its not the PCI-E is a bottleneck, its the fact that it cant hold a GPU that takes the size of two slots.

Not every GPU is equal, a manufacturer might have more than one unit using that same chipset, but they'll have an overclock option, more fans, more ports, etc.

I think the two slot cards just dissipate heat easier, allowing them to be overclocked.
The biggest issue in my oppinion is the wattage allowed, as significantly stronger cards have multiple times the 50w limitation.

Of course, as far as I understand, one could simply use an extra psu and a pcie riser and use any card he wishes, but i don’t know if I would do that.

Congrats on the Z61t, it's a very nice old machine - one of my favorites. Very elegantly designed. Pleased to know it has more fans.

With that said, no GPU upgrade will make it a beast in new games. You need to understand that. It will be leaps and bound better than the GMA950, yes, but don't expect anything comparable to modern laptops. The CPU will also bottleneck you in the new games.

However, if your reference point is the Pentium D, which is ancient as well, then it may be comparable.

Also, I expect you know that you can only use an external LCD with the GPU, not the built-in screen of the Z61t.

well, i am not expecting it to magicaly transform into a beast ^^
actualy if i exclude the new counterstrike, i cannot even think of any other modern game i want to even try.

My reference point is indeed old, and when I find some time, it will be converted to an aquarium-pc to be used as a media player in my living room
The laptop with the dock&gpu will probably be able to make my desktop obsolete, and hopefully it might be even better. The GT640 benches nearly double compared to the 9800 GT I was using, the t2400 benches more than the D 830 as it’s a newer processor.
Nevertheless, even if it will not perform as good, the convinience of using a single machine for every task, and being able to go portable with no hassle is definitely worth it!

[Crazycow]

Great success!

Yesterday ive recieved the GPU, but when i tried to place it inside but it wouldn't fit.

I wanted to see if i can create some more space for the gpu, so i dissassembled the dock.
I noticed that while the dock is build like a tank, the area surrounding the gpu is very badly designed.
The circuit board is protected by a metalic cover, which is then behind the plastic cover, even inside the gpu bay.
That would be ok if the board wasn't under an angle, but as it is that plastic in the bay limits the available space as well as the airflow.

http://blog.christian-stankowic.de/wp-c ... 6-PCIe.jpg

So i carefully carved cut lines with an utility knife and removed most of it.
By the way, this had absolutely no effect on the appearence of the dock.

The card would then barely fit, but with excersising some amount of presure to the metal cover.
Which i don't really like.
It is obvious now that i need to either find an aftermarket cooler, or modify the one that came with the card.

If you have any advice for aftermarket gpu coolers please tell me!

The general outcome was mostly what was expected!



some tips for dissassembling the dock:

The upper plastic cover is a pain to both remove and place:

- there are 4 hidden screws under black patches near to the place where the laptop connects

- the undocking mechanism is both on the internal base as well as the external plastic cover.
the two little squares that usualy push the laptop upwards will make it very hard to place the cover back.
to this there is a simple solution: use some duck tape to hold them in 'erected' position and then let them slide down after placing the cover.

- make good notes of where each of the screws go, there are countless screws and without a proper guide you can end up with solving a puzzle.

- keep in mind that putting the cover back is perhaps the harder part, this is not like dissassembling a thinkpad laptop and it will definately need patience and use of precise force.

some notes:

the PSU fan of the dock only works on two speeds, the slow one is ok but the fast one is extremly loud and annoying.
adding a gpu will increase the load of the psu and will make it turn on at frequent times.
I would assume it is worth to eventualy change the fan.

[QWERTY Andreas]

3: Its not the PCI-E is a bottleneck, its the fact that it cant hold a GPU that takes the size of two slots

It is the PCI-E 1.0 x1 that is the bottleneck. I use a DIY eGPU setup over the expresscard port, that have the same speed as the advanced dock. The PCI-E 1.0 x1 is practically limiting it to ½ the speed.
If the Card could run full speed, the benefit would be higher than a 2-slot Graphics Card (taking power comsumption etc. into account)