UltraNav SK-8845 Windows 8 drivers?

[micrex22]

Hello,

I've been playing around with an UltraNav SK-8845 (made in 2007). Come to think of it, pretty rare to find a keyboard lacking windows keys made in 2007, but IBM was known to throw microsoft a sour bean here and there... windows keys are stupid but I digress.

I'm having problems getting the drivers to work. I've installed the drivers for the SK-8855 (in hopes that they'll work for the SK-8845), but they don't. Seen here: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-73183

I tried forcing the keyboard to use that driver, no dice. Although I did see two synaptics items pop up along with other USB HID entries seemingly all tied to the keyboard somehow.

I tried the UltraNav driver (typically for thinkpads), refused to install from not seeing any device(s) present: http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/downloads/ds029425

I went ahead and tried some older vista drivers which some folks were using for the SK-8845 under Windows 7-- now these drivers DID enable the trackpoint to function (sans the middle button). BUT, it only functions for 15 seconds and then stops working-- until I restart or reinstall it again. But only for 15 seconds, no more. Weird.

Has anyone else had any luck running an SK-8845 under Windows 8?

I just found this page for drivers (http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd026503), I swear I tried this package already, but it looks different from that SK-8855 package.

For various reasons I do not want to get an SK-8855 and I guess I'll explain since it may come up. For starters the cable routing has been reduced, not sure why Lenovo has done this, even on their desktop keyboards whereas the IBM variants had more cable routing options. The middle 'scroll' button has received a reduced footprint, I like it being larger. I have no need for a windows / context key (which affect the sizing of alt and ctrl). I don't like those ESC and Delete keys, if I can help it. And finally the most vain reason, I prefer the IBM branding.


Cheers.

[micrex22]

To provide an update, the drivers at http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd026503 are actually for the later chiclet ultranavs as far as I can tell.

However after doing some digging, I found out that the SK-8835 (essentially the SK-8845 with numpad) is auto-detected by windows 8 with a functioning trackpoint and touchpad according to some users. That means there's either a fundamental hardware difference between SK-8835 and SK-8845, or 8.1 had a larger change from 8. It's unlikely that 8 and 8.1 would have that much of a difference.

Now I'm curious if the SK-8835 has different hardware (however I do not care for numpads with the extra size and the hideous price tag those go for is even more deterring)-- I still don't have concrete proof SK-8845 uses the synaptics ultrastyk. I suppose I could look for some ultrastyk windows 8.1 drivers to experiment. I'll also continue a search in the depths of the internet to see what drivers were explicitly released for SK-8845; the product hasn't really been documented well, anywhere.

[micrex22]

Good news and bad.

The good news is, I finally got the trackpoint working. The bad news is, it doesn't seem like the middle 'scroll' button is functional.

After playing around endlessly with installation package 'v5kyb04us17', it somehow finally took. I am not sure if this is also because I was trying to install '6hgx81ww', which happens to be a synaptics-specific UltraNav driver. Every time I ran 6hgx81ww, it claimed there were no synaptics devices, which was false as the device manager showed it after you install v5kyb04us17.

Anyways, somehow... the synaptics drivers are working now. They don't look to be Lenovo branded though... under 'buttons' I have two devices:
Synaptics TouchPad V5.9 on USB port
Synaptics TouchStyk V1.13 on USB port

At this point I can verify it's not a resistive trackpoint but a capacitive touchstyk. The touchstyk doesn't seem to suffer from the drifting problem that a regular resistive trackpoint does. Also, synaptics does give the option to reduce the pressure required quite dramatically, so it tracks quite well.
EDIT: actually after some more extensive stress tests, the touchstyk does suffer from drifting. So it's not a problem exclusive to negative inertia as commonly touted.

In fact I'm very surprised at how well it tracks... on its HP brethren I can never seem to use it properly (although this may be primarily due to poor rubber nubs). I like the rim trackpoint cap the best.

Anyways... has anyone else had a different experience with these SK-8845 UltraNavs? I'm curious about getting the middle button working... if anyone has done so.

PS: I was able to disable the synaptics touchpad. Curiously my SK-8845 came with a piece of foam installed over the touchpad rendering it nonfunctional sans the buttons anyways... I am not sure if this came with the original keyboard that you'd stick on, or if it's custom made and applied. If it's custom they matched the corners perfectly... anyways it's staying on.

[micrex22]

Well I have gotten the middle button working properly now.

You have to go into the synaptics touchstyk options and set the middle button for the continuous scrolling. By default it's configured to behave like how you'd push down a wheel of a typical mouse.

With that said, it actually also scrolls *horizontally* as well, allowing more functionality than the standard IBM driver and hardware (and in a way a bit more like a scrollpoint). The SK-8845 has some rather abysmal rubber membranes for the middle click button so it feels rather soggy (despite using more or less the identical button than your standard T30 would have). I'm experimenting with some rubber membranes from the T30 and T60 NMB keyboards which actually make it feel how it should. The T30 membranes seem to work the best, however I'll have to shave the top off a bit as it's too high. I'll probably make an article on the whole modification process when it's done.

So far the SK-8845 is getting better and better. At first I was disappointed, but now I quite like it.

[crashnburn]

Let me go and check on what drivers I am using on my Win7 x64. Maybe those could work?

[micrex22]

Let me go and check on what drivers I am using on my Win7 x64. Maybe those could work?

It's alright, I figured out the correct driver package is v5kyb04us17. I think other installations were conflicting with the package the first time I gave it a try. And to get the middle button behaving how it should, it requires to be manually configured to do so.

[crashnburn]

Let me go and check on what drivers I am using on my Win7 x64. Maybe those could work?

It's alright, I figured out the correct driver package is v5kyb04us17. I think other installations were conflicting with the package the first time I gave it a try. And to get the middle button behaving how it should, it requires to be manually configured to do so.

Awesome. Thanks for the post back. I will be moving to Win 8 x64 Pro so that should come in handy.
Hmm.. do share what conflicts / packages you are facing and how you configured manually

PS: I was googling around and found this as well.. similar/ related.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 5kyb04us17

Edit: Missed the link

[micrex22]

I would like to update this--

Erik (who was very kind in contacting me) sold a Japanese SK-8835* and included with the often neglected driver disc for these series of keyboards: which has additional files that is nowhere available at Lenovo, and IBM has long since removed the files. I'll be uploading these files publicly at some point, but if anyone needs them 'now' just send me a PM and I'll send you a download think with a .ZIP. Some ebay listings selling these keyboards NOS include the driver discs, but usually older versions -- aaaaand -- it would be annoying to fork over $100 just to get an outdated drivers disc when someone already has one to share. This driver disc should work for both the SK-8845 and SK-8835.

On that note, the Japanese SK-8835 assembly seems to have a different trackpoint cap... one where it uses an 'adapter' that attaches to the old style smaller square stem. I am not sure if this is due to different manufacturers (which I think it is as the switches feel *slightly* different) or if IBM just used alternative caps on non-US boards.

'USB Keyboard with UltraNav Software and Installation Manual - Version 4.0'
(it also includes the old IBM HTML support pages and W2K / XP drivers, but of course the Vista drivers are the ones most people would be interested in).

On that note... since the keyboard does use a synaptics touchstyk, it should be possible to install later (generic) touchstyk drivers if the vista drivers in this package don't work for someone. I'll be investigating that in the future some time...

It is possible to switch assemblies from an SK-8835 into an SK-8845 and vice versa (the numpad is separate). With the only exception that the SK-8845s may not have the numpad ribbon connector soldered on, I think they do, but I can't remember.

*The Japanese SK-8835s seem to be pretty hard to find at this point, at least in North America. Mostly just ANSI and UK-ISO NOS ones that remain.


Thanks,

[crashnburn]

I would like to update this--

Erik (who was very kind in contacting me) sold a Japanese SK-8835* and included with the often neglected driver disc for these series of keyboards: which has additional files that is nowhere available at Lenovo, and IBM has long since removed the files. I'll be uploading these files publicly at some point, but if anyone needs them 'now' just send me a PM and I'll send you a download think with a .ZIP. Some ebay listings selling these keyboards NOS include the driver discs, but usually older versions -- aaaaand -- it would be annoying to fork over $100 just to get an outdated drivers disc when someone already has one to share. This driver disc should work for both the SK-8845 and SK-8835.

On that note, the Japanese SK-8835 assembly seems to have a different trackpoint cap... one where it uses an 'adapter' that attaches to the old style smaller square stem. I am not sure if this is due to different manufacturers (which I think it is as the switches feel *slightly* different) or if IBM just used alternative caps on non-US boards.

'USB Keyboard with UltraNav Software and Installation Manual - Version 4.0'
(it also includes the old IBM HTML support pages and W2K / XP drivers, but of course the Vista drivers are the ones most people would be interested in).

On that note... since the keyboard does use a synaptics touchstyk, it should be possible to install later (generic) touchstyk drivers if the vista drivers in this package don't work for someone. I'll be investigating that in the future some time...

It is possible to switch assemblies from an SK-8835 into an SK-8845 and vice versa (the numpad is separate). With the only exception that the SK-8845s may not have the numpad ribbon connector soldered on, I think they do, but I can't remember.

*The Japanese SK-8835s seem to be pretty hard to find at this point, at least in North America. Mostly just ANSI and UK-ISO NOS ones that remain.


Thanks,

I was able to find: v5kyb04us17. Is the ZIP file you are offering the same or another driver package?

[micrex22]

I would like to update this for two reasons: #1 to provide the latest driver packages and what I have discovered, #2 to clarify a few things to one-time-registrations exclusively to send me PMs about drivers for the SK-8845.

Here is a download to the *latest* Lenovo SK-8845 specific driver:
http://ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/peripheral ... rivers.zip

Here is the download to the *latest* UltraNav driver (which is the one I recommend, read below):
http://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/downloads/ds019164

I was able to install the *latest* ThinkPad UltraNav driver on the SK-8845 as Lenovo's driver also runs Synaptics devices. The driver is actually a package (partly) developed for IBM/Lenovo on behalf of Synaptics. And Synaptics manufactures all trackpoints. What you need to do is manually point the SK-8845 to the UltraNav package, and then the UltraNav driver will switch into 'Synaptics' mode and run the SK-8845 just fine. Yes, the UltraNav driver has different modes, depending on what 'UltraNav' it sees-- I found this out after hooking up an SK-8845 to a ThinkPad--which caused the driver to change modes and stop working for my ThinkPad, but worked fine on the SK-8845.
ThinkPad Edge laptops also operate on the 'Synaptics' mode like the SK-8845, whereas a regular T series ThinkPad uses the more deluxe Lenovo branded portion of the driver. The TouchStyk implementation is less 'precise'.

**To the people who register to thinkpads.com ONLY to send me a one-off private message about asking for help on the SK-8845 regarding drivers. I sort of don't like the ethics behind it as you're using my private mailbox for technical support on an issue without contributing anything to the thinkpads community (since you don't care about the community, you just want your personal issue fixed). If you have no desire to contribute to the thinkpads community and just want to send me PMs without ever posting anything, forget it. The forum was not exclusively designed as a private messaging system.**

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with this, it's just *so many* one-offs are sending me PMs about the SK-8845. So they waste resources on the forum and leave soon as their problem is resolved. One person even told me to EMAIL them as they wouldn't be looking at their private messages on the forum after they sent the message.

Anyone who wants help on their SK-8845, please publicly reply to this thread, don't send me any more one-off PMs.

[passaro]

I have one Lenovo X230 ... With the last update, after I installed Windows 10 I stop being able to use the SK8845.
What I did ??

I uninstalled the Synapics drive and all re-start working.

The incompatible driver is Synapics Pointing device driver ver 19.0.17.85

Rgds

Rui

[micrex22]

I have one Lenovo X230 ... With the last update, after I installed Windows 10 I stop being able to use the SK8845.
What I did ??

I uninstalled the Synapics drive and all re-start working.

The incompatible driver is Synapics Pointing device driver ver 19.0.17.85

Rgds

Rui

I have not attempted to get the SK-8845 to work under Windows 10. My suggestion is to find a Windows 10 Lenovo Trackpoint driver, and try to get the 'synaptics' portion working with the SK-8845. If that doesn't work then you're out of luck.

[crashnburn]

I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9400

I presume it is the same? Similar? Same drivers apply to this one?

I would like to update this for two reasons: #1 to provide the latest driver packages and what I have discovered, #2 to clarify a few things to one-time-registrations exclusively to send me PMs about drivers for the SK-8845.

Here is a download to the *latest* Lenovo SK-8845 specific driver:
http://ibmfiles.com/ibmfiles/peripheral ... rivers.zip

Here is the download to the *latest* UltraNav driver (which is the one I recommend, read below):
http://support.lenovo.com/ca/en/downloads/ds019164

I was able to install the *latest* ThinkPad UltraNav driver on the SK-8845 as Lenovo's driver also runs Synaptics devices. The driver is actually a package (partly) developed for IBM/Lenovo on behalf of Synaptics. And Synaptics manufactures all trackpoints. What you need to do is manually point the SK-8845 to the UltraNav package, and then the UltraNav driver will switch into 'Synaptics' mode and run the SK-8845 just fine. Yes, the UltraNav driver has different modes, depending on what 'UltraNav' it sees-- I found this out after hooking up an SK-8845 to a ThinkPad--which caused the driver to change modes and stop working for my ThinkPad, but worked fine on the SK-8845.
ThinkPad Edge laptops also operate on the 'Synaptics' mode like the SK-8845, whereas a regular T series ThinkPad uses the more deluxe Lenovo branded portion of the driver. The TouchStyk implementation is less 'precise'.

**To the people who register to thinkpads.com ONLY to send me a one-off private message about asking for help on the SK-8845 regarding drivers. I sort of don't like the ethics behind it as you're using my private mailbox for technical support on an issue without contributing anything to the thinkpads community (since you don't care about the community, you just want your personal issue fixed). If you have no desire to contribute to the thinkpads community and just want to send me PMs without ever posting anything, forget it. The forum was not exclusively designed as a private messaging system.**

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with this, it's just *so many* one-offs are sending me PMs about the SK-8845. So they waste resources on the forum and leave soon as their problem is resolved. One person even told me to EMAIL them as they wouldn't be looking at their private messages on the forum after they sent the message.

Anyone who wants help on their SK-8845, please publicly reply to this thread, don't send me any more one-off PMs.

[micrex22]

I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9400

I presume it is the same? Similar? Same drivers apply to this one?

All SK-8845s use the same chip (hidden under a glop top) and synaptics driver package.

[passaro]

My unit is this ...
I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9419

What is happening with it ?
1- the "Lenovo system update" keep saying me that I need to update the drivers.
2- Last "Windows 10 update" told me the same ...
In both cases I installed and updated ... First the Lenovo and later the MSFT W 10 ...
In both cases the SK-8845K trackpoint stop working... I was able to use the "keys/enter etc etc" BUT the pointing device as well as the pad device did not work.
In both cases I "uninstalled" the program from the "Control panel" and all start working again.
The strange thing is that I have another SK keyboard ( THE SK-8840 ) which works fine ...

It looks the SK-8845RC/40K9419 have some incompatibility with the driver.

Rgds

Rui

[micrex22]

My unit is this ...
I have the one with UltraNav.
Model No: SK-8845 RC
FRU P/N: 40K9419

What is happening with it ?
1- the "Lenovo system update" keep saying me that I need to update the drivers.
2- Last "Windows 10 update" told me the same ...
In both cases I installed and updated ... First the Lenovo and later the MSFT W 10 ...
In both cases the SK-8845K trackpoint stop working... I was able to use the "keys/enter etc etc" BUT the pointing device as well as the pad device did not work.
In both cases I "uninstalled" the program from the "Control panel" and all start working again.
The strange thing is that I have another SK keyboard ( THE SK-8840 ) which works fine ...

It looks the SK-8845RC/40K9419 have some incompatibility with the driver.

Rgds

Rui

#1
IBM (despite making these as late as 2014) does not support the SK-8845 on Windows 10. They only sell them to select corporate clients running server environments from a console in a server rack.
Lenovo (who has not manufactured these for probably over nine years) does not care and wants you to buy their latest *disgusting* PCjr-esque chiclet keyboard: http://shop.lenovo.com/ca/en/itemdetail ... 1FF88E33C7

#2
When you 'uninstall' the mismatched driver Lenovo and Windows tries to install, it reverts to using a generic driver that can operate the Synaptics Touchstyk without a problem (both the TouchStyk, Touchpad and left and right buttons scan as standard HID mouse devices under USB). The TouchStyk driver is necessary for the 'rich' features such as configuring the middle scroll button.
The SK-8840 talks over PS/2, so anything that understands PS/2 will work fine with it (because the bus is specialized specifically for a mouse and keyboard, it doesn't need a complex driver like USB, as *any* type of peripheral can be USB). Don't confuse USB and PS/2 interfaces.

#3
As per my previous notes, I would try forcefully installing Lenovo's latest (Win 10) TrackPoint driver package so that the SK-8845 starts to utilize the synaptics 'TouchStyk' portion of the driver package. All TrackPoint driver packages have two portions: one for the "regular" TrackPoint, and the other for the TouchStyk. SK-8845 and some ThinkPads (like the edge) use the TouchStyk portion. If you don't care about sensitivity and the middle button, then I would just use the generic driver.

Because I have no desire to use Windows 10 with my SK-8845, I'm not going to experiment with it myself. I got it working under Windows 8.1, and that was enough for me.

[johnnycanuck]

Hi micrex22

Long preamble to my question that follows below

I recently purchased a Lenovo “Thinkpad Compact USB Keyboard with Trackpoint” PN 0B47190. It’s working fine on a refurbished desktop I have also just bought and wanted to use it with - a Lenovo ThinkCenter M90P running WIN7 (upgradable to 10 at some point in the future if I want to).

For many years before I retired, I had been regularly using IBM Thinkpads with a Trackpoint (as a full time “business” user) and found it so ergonomically superior to a mouse, that I now personally consider it the only way to use a computer with a keyboard. While I was still working I experienced a stroke. Fortunately the after effects were relatively mild all things considered, but my right side was compromised. In particular I lost “fine” motor control in my right hand (i.e. fine movement control); the after effects continue up my arm and shoulder so I also have “large” motor control issues in those areas (i.e. more generalized movement issues that relate to my hand, arm & shoulder). So you can probably easily picture how much “fun” it is trying to operate a mouse compared to only needing to use a single finger to operate the TrackPoint.

After recovering from my stroke, and understanding the deficits I was left with in my right hand, arm and shoulder, I realized even more than I already had, the ergonomic advantages of the TrackPoint compared to a mouse and I continued to work for another 8 years before retiring. After retiring I continued to use an IBM/Lenovo T60P with WIN/XP, but finally decided I needed to upgrade from XP and didn’t need a laptop any more as my “primary” computer, so opted to get the ThinkCenter desktop with WIN7 … knowing that I’d still be able to get a USB Keyboard with TrackPoint to add to it.

However when I actually ended up looking (in Apr 2017) for a keyboard, I ended up realizing that Lenovo only sells/supports one model of a USB Keyboard with a Trackpoint (PN 0B47190), which I had to end up buying since for me it was my only option. It works functionally for me in WIN7, but I’ve found that I hate its “compactness” (reduced number of keys), lack of palm rest area, strangely the height of the top of the TrackPoint relative to the height of the B key is so close I end up typing Bs when I just want to move the pointer, the actual layout of the keys and so on when I compare it to the old / “classic” / IBM ThinkPad style keyboard (something like a T60P) that I had been thinking I’d be able to get.

My Question

Because of the above, I’ve been searching these forums for an alternative to Lenovo’s PN 0B47190 that I’m using so far (but not happily ). I’ve also tried Amazon, Buy/Sell sites etc. for older models etc. with no luck till now.

What I’m looking at now is this keyboard on AliExpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Ori ... 0e75&tpp=1

It’s called a "New Original Genuine for Lenovo ThinkPad UltraNav USB Keyboard + Trackpoint US English 8845 SK-8845 SK-8845CR 00MV946 2015" and the link has photos, more description etc.

In reading this thread, I see that you’ve looked in detail at the intricacies of “old / classic” keyboard styles (IBM) vs “new” keyboard styles and extended it to drivers that are required for any specific keyboard and have specifically mentioned SK-8845.

So finally my question is simply … what’s your opinion of me being able to get this keyboard from AliExpress, working on my Lenovo ThinkCenter desktop (M90P) running WIN7. To me it seems pretty good (especially since I’m not trying to use it on WIN10), but I’d appreciate your opinion before I make the decision to buy one.

Thanks very much in advance for your response.

[micrex22]

You'd be better off purchasing one from the States for cheaper:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Keyboard-wi ... SwImRYPx8S

Getting the driver working under Windows 8.1 (and especially 10) is a huge process. And sadly the newer versions of windows were *inverting* the trackpoint after I had managed to hack the old original NT driver in (I have not figured a solution to that). It's almost impossible and BREAKS every time Microsoft forces an update down your gullet.

So if you're planning on using modern Windows with this keyboard, you'll be in for a world of hurt, weird issues and pain and agony as you watch your operating system update automatically and brick multiple drivers, uninstall applications it deems 'not compatible', installs junk like candy crush and of course uploads a lot of your personal data inadvertently to the microsoft servers which could be compromised at any given point in time.

Now... getting the trackpoint to work on Linux shouldn't be an issue at all (since the way Linux interprets the TrackPoint is a lot more intuitive and you can customize it to your needs; although my only complaint is that I'm not sure what the precise values the Windows driver uitilizes), and as a bonus your computer won't self-immolate after a forced update! If you are considering getting that keyboard, I would just consider Windows a write-off at this point and work to transitioning away from it. Because there are ISSUES with how 8.1 and 10 operate that I can't solve with each update as things break and change how Windows responds to drivers.

Windows 10 is a colossal disaster; and not enough people are shouting out its HIDEOUS issues (and even worse, many more crusade for it since they're scared of change and don't want to admit it siphons all of their personal data, shoves updates and applications down their throat, implements a BIPOLAR theme that's an utter mess, etc). And it's painful for me to migrate off since I'll have to use a cocktail of virtual machines and WINE, but whatever. I have no choice. Windows 10 is NOT a solution and NOBODY should use that DISGUSTING WRETCHED operating system.

I've had Windows 10 UNINSTALL my regular TrackPoint driver packages after the second major update (whatever it was called), so I had to download and reinstall. Microsoft Windows is the ONLY operating system in the entire world that anything like this would ever happen... So there's no telling what it will do to 'unofficial' mods to hack in older drivers.

If you want to take a dip in Linux, I'd suggest Xubuntu:
https://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/

If you're a fan of the Windows 9x / W2K interface, I'd suggest Chicago 95 for XFCE (which is what Xubuntu is installed with out of the box):
https://www.xfce-look.org/content/show. ... ent=175835

---
If you absolutely insist on the Microsoft Windows 10 experience, you'll need to just get a modern Lenovo chiclet UltraNav:
http://www3.lenovo.com/ca/en/accessorie ... /p/0B47190

[pianowizard]

I've had Windows 10 UNINSTALL my regular TrackPoint driver packages after the second major update (whatever it was called), so I had to download and reinstall. Microsoft Windows is the ONLY operating system in the entire world that anything like this would ever happen...

Do the following:
1) Right-click "This PC" and select "Properties".
2) Click "Advanced system settings".
3) Click the "Hardware" tab.
4) Click "Device Installation Settings".
5) Select "No..."
6) Click "Save Changes".

After doing the above, Windows 10 might still forcefully uninstall and update your driver. Tell the Device Manager to roll back to the previous driver, and Windows 10 will learn never to mess with that driver again. I've done this for my graphics drivers and my SK-8845 keyboard.