Thinkpads Forum

It seems like Lenovo periodically decides to make a laptop less durable with a new model, and then later changes their mind and goes back to making that line more durable with the one that replaces it. Starting with the T/W/X 520 era, which are the durable Thinkpads?

marlinspike wrote: Starting with the T/W/X 520 era, which are the durable Thinkpads?

Define "durable".

When someone says "durable" I think of a ToughBook, not a ThinkPad...

ajkula66 wrote:

marlinspike wrote: Starting with the T/W/X 520 era, which are the durable Thinkpads?

Define "durable".

When someone says "durable" I think of a ToughBook, not a ThinkPad...

Well, they've made plenty of T and X series that are pretty dust and heat resistant. There is mil-spec without an IP rating for instance.

marlinspike wrote: Well, they've made plenty of T and X series that are pretty dust and heat resistant. There is mil-spec without an IP rating for instance.

Let's try this another way: which ThinkPads of the yesteryear would you define as durable?

ajkula66 wrote:

marlinspike wrote: Well, they've made plenty of T and X series that are pretty dust and heat resistant. There is mil-spec without an IP rating for instance.

Let's try this another way: which ThinkPads of the yesteryear would you define as durable?

T60 caught a lot of flak, but mine has proven to be durable (except in heat). My W520 on the other hand is not as tough, though is tough enough. X201, not tough enough.

marlinspike wrote:
T60 caught a lot of flak, but mine has proven to be durable (except in heat). My W520 on the other hand is not as tough, though is tough enough. X201, not tough enough.

I see.

Well, you are not likely to find anything more durable than W520 within Lenovo's recent offerings, and X series fares worse IMO.

Would you say the T430 and T440 lines (by which I mean both T430 and T430s for instance) are less durable than the W520?

marlinspike wrote:Would you say the T430 and T440 lines (by which I mean both T430 and T430s for instance) are less durable than the W520?

The short answer would be "yes". To me personally, the entire *10/20/30 generation felt flimsy.

T440 is a different breed, and the difference between standard, "S" and "P" offerings is more pronounced IMO. The "S" doesn't feel flimsy, but it doesn't feel like a ThinkPad to me either, more like a weird EliteBook. I'm not saying it's a bad system, but certainly doesn't fit my definition of a ThinkPad.

The hard part about the ones ending in 40 for me is that the lack of a clamshell is going to be terrible in a high dust environment.

15.6" 20/30 models definitely had better hinges than the 14.1" versions. However, both still felt pretty cheap. I have used a T440 and T450 and the build quality/feel was surprisingly better in most areas.

The hard part about the ones ending in 40 for me is that the lack of a clamshell is going to be terrible in a high dust environment.

I would argue that the T440 and newer keep dust out better. 10/20/30 had latches, but were hardly clamshell (sides of screen bezel were completely flat), unlike the T60 and older models. There was also always a bit of play and gap in the between the lid and base. Latches are gone on the newer models but there is a slight 'lip' that goes around the lcd bezel that fully clamps down when shut.

How new do you want your machine to be? The X1 from 2011 had extra thick materials which made it very heavy, but highly durable. I'd consider the P50 pretty durable as well, but only on the level of "W510 durable", not "T60 durable".

Just my own opinion here, but plain old dumb luck always plays a significant role in whether you have an issue down the road. That makes it difficult to define durable.

I think ThinkPad is more classified as better longevity than durable. It means that they generally last a really long time before running into quality issues. However, if you drop them daily (just like my cousin do), just like how the aluminum in MacBook will bend in, the carbon-fiber plastic in ThinkPad will crack and your ThinkPad will end up with a really bad look, though most likely still functional. Also if you want durable, stay away from the motorized parts (ODD, HDD) as they break much easier when dropped (Last time I dropped my T530 and even the APS couldn't save my hard drive because it landed flat on to the floor at a height of 4 feet, but at least other parts are still flawless today unlike some of the cheap but better looking Lenovo products)
But ThinkPad lineup was one of the very first lineups to include features such as APS (T41), spill-resistant keyboard (A30), roll cage (T60), and the list goes on!

Really it doesn't aid Lenovo or any other manufacturer to make Laptops too durable in the context that many on this forum class as durable.

Blame IBM because they started making durable Laptops and look how things went for them.

Prices today are probably a half or a third what durable Laptops were in the past and it is fairly true that you only get what you pay for in new purchases.

Here's my $.02:

There is mechanical durability (how well it functions under adverse conditions/abuse.)
They vary by model, but none of the Thinkpads are really MILSPEC. For that you want
a Toughbook or something similar.

Then, there is the issue of how well the electronics hold up over time. This varies by model.

Finally, there is the issue of how "solid" the machine feels, how good the keyboard feels, etc.
For example, Lenovo has made some really horrid notebooks of late, where the palmrest isn't
even supported properly. But, I don't know that their longevity or overall reliability is
affected. Then, there was that clickpad madness.

So, if you're actually considering buying a TP, I'd investigate whether it is going to actually
perform the tasks that you want to perform, whether you like the keyboard, etc.
If you're buying a used machine, then there are a host of issues related as to whether you
are actually going to get a good unit, with ports that work, etc.

Almost all of the older machines could use some TLC in the form of changing the thermal
paste, and some models have particular weaknesses that can be addressed if you are
willing to do a little research and take the machine apart. Or, you can have someone
on this forum do it for you.

The most cosmetically resilient Lenovo thinkpad (and possibly in the top 3 of all thinkpads) goes to the X300/X301. These models wear extremely slowly and I rarely see one in bad condition, even abused. They are also pretty structurally sound. Then again, they were not cheap since you could buy 2, maybe even 3 other thinkpads to equal its price.

+1 for the X301

Yes it is durable and you learn this the longer you use a laptop. But it also has an expensive feel to the machine.

Lenovo won't make money if they put the same relative quality in Thinkpads today.

Well some of the stuff today have awesome build quality on the outside that makes you feel it is solid while it doesn't even last more than 2 years. Nexus 6P is an example. While it has premium aluminum outside, it has weak ductile joints inside. MacBook 2016 is another example. While outside it looks more premium than modern ThinkPads, the fan in MacBook 2016 already marks its early death because it won't even come to full speed before the BGA CPU EXCEEDS 100C! Throttling overheating CPU + BGA CPU, is there any worse combination?? How long does THAT take to desolder itself??

I have a ThinkPad 560 (2640) that I bought in 1996, which came with an external floppy drive that plugs into a connector port on the side opposite the PCMCIA card slot. I also purchased a Backpack CD drive that plugs into a port on the rear of the ThinkPad. All of this works quite well after 20 years, and I am more than satisfied with it. I also have a newer Asus and a IBM ThinkCentre PC, but like the ThinkPad because it is so compact and light. True, it only has just over 800 MB of HD, and I added RAM at the time of purchase. All in all, it has outlasted roughly 10 or 12 other computers that I have owned over the years. It is like a classic car; look after it and maintain it properly, and it will outlast just about anything else that is out there today. That includes my old Apple II Plus with a pair of 5 1/4" floppy drives, no hard drive, and 64 KB of RAM (had to buy a portable TV to put on top of it for a monitor).