Thinkpads Forum

Just a matter of taste.....Please state reason and if you are using some custom scripts or prefs for your pointing device...

TrackPoints for laptops and Logitech Trackman or Microsoft Mouse for my desktop.

What the crap is a BioNeural Interface? Jeepers... I got a tingle up my spine, or is that whole point?

I think bioneural interface would be probes attached to your head to move the pointer.

I use the track point and the touchpad, sometimes I use them together. Got a logitech mouse if I have to work with a program that requires a lot of mouse work. The touchpad scroll feature is really great.

Reason: Track Point is great, I can only use it intermittantly, have some nerve damage in right arm from my army days so I have to switch hands a lot, right hand will get numb, touch pad allows a different trajectory for my arm to position relative to my fingers, works great like that. Sometimes you have to improvise.

I use the track point on my laptop (it has the scrolling feature as well) and the good old (cheap) effective Microsoft Optical Wheel mouse on my desktop. I have tried other mice and like the cheapie Microsoft model the best. I keep them at key clients and use them on my laptop as well, but I use the track point so much I often forget if I have attached an external mouse.

I detest (in triplicate and in spades) the touch point thing and disabled it. Just speaking only for myself, mind you.

... JD Hurst

jdhurst wrote:I use the track point on my laptop (it has the scrolling feature as well) and the good old (cheap) effective Microsoft Optical Wheel mouse on my desktop. I have tried other mice and like the cheapie Microsoft model the best. I keep them at key clients and use them on my laptop as well, but I use the track point so much I often forget if I have attached an external mouse.

Good mouse. I have a Microsoft Optical Wheel mouse that I bought at MicroCenter for about $15 or $20 and I keep that with my main ThinkPad, the 760ED. For me, it's one of the most comfortable mice money can buy, next only to my Logitech Trackman Wheel.

Do you even need to ask?

Ditto JD Hurst.

Trackpoint all the way....for laptops.

My M300 has the trackpad, and I DETEST it.

My thumbs rest too low and I am almost always deleting text, or moving the cursor around. I can't disable it because Compaq isn't as nice as IBM...can't find the right drivers. XP just lists it as a regular ps2 mouse.

IBM and Trackpoints, what a match!!!

trackpoint when using my laptop by itself, logitech mx1000 at the desk.

I use both the TrackPoint and UltraNav touchpad on my ThinkPad. I use the IBM mouse (with the scrolling feature) that came along with my NetVista desktop on my IBM desktop.

Trust me, that Trackpoint actually lets me play FPS games "PROFICENTLY" which is amazing for a intergrated pointing device.

I use the trackpoint, I'm not that skilled to use the touchpad.

I am very comfortable with either input device. If I can enable click to tap on a touchpad, so much the better.

I really like that Bioneural interface. Does logitech make one?

On my desktop (A64 4000+ 3GB Ram, 1TB [yes] HD, 6800 Ultra) I use the Logitech Marble w/scroll wheel. I prefer trackballs for desktop machines.

With the track balls there is very little hand movement required. Same with click to tap on a touchpad. Computer input should be as quick and easy as possible with a minimal amount of physical movement required by the user.

Heck if had a mouse that could track eye movement, that would be really cool.

Off topic question. For those of you who use firefox, what's a good spell checker plugin/extension for it. (Safari has built in spell check and I really miss it sometimes).

TrackPoint all the way.

If Unicomp would update their On The Stick 101 with a TrackPoint IV instead of the antique TrackPoint II (no negative inertia, no "internet scroll bar"), then it'd be perfect.

Yep, I wouldn't even use a mouse any more. Unfortunately, it's the negative inertia that makes it better than the AccuPoint (Toshiba)/DualPoint (Alps, used by Dell and HP), and the TrackPoint II doesn't have it.

The Internet Scroll Bar gives scrolling ability that the DualPoint doesn't have. If it weren't for built-in scrolling, I'd be carrying a wheel mouse everywhere. That debuted in the TrackPoint IV. Therefore, an OTS101 won't work.

I use the TrackPoint, though it isn't perfect, and so I use it and have trouble with it. The people at IBM who programmed its software didn't do a very good job. The TrackPoint doesn't know where it is, if it is on the center or not, because temperature affects its readings. So the programmers decided to check all the time if it behave as if it is off-center. And so if one moves the mouse slowly this program think the TrackPoint settings are off-center, and sets the way it is to be the new center, which means that although you press on it, it doesn't move. Which means finger strain. It also means that when you lift the finger the mouse cursor would jump, and if you happened to be on file Explorer, and lifted the finger to press on a file, you can now have a "good time" searching where the mouse dragged and dropped that file to... The most annoying thing with it is that I know that the center that was found is good for a couple of minutes or so, and there is really no need for this recallibration to happen all the time. I wished there was a way to do this recallibration thing only when it is needed, even manually. So I showed it to someone at IBM lab and he just told me that this is the way that it works, and he can't change it.

Test: move the mouse slowly with constant pressure. Wait until it stops on its own. Move it again with more constant pressure .... Repeat several times, and then lift the finger (from the trackpoint) and see the mouse fly to the other side of the screen.

I wonder if I am the only one who is bothered by this

I have used lots of track points on lots of ThinkPads and they haven't been as bad as you have described. Later models are better as well. Early ThinkPads were much more afflicted with the mouse flying off the screen. With my T41, it generally stays put.

One thing I have learned (the hard way): Do not push the track point hard. It does not move and is not supposed to move. Push gently and it will react quite well (at least it does for me). ... JD Hurst

Yeah, lots of my friends who use my ThinkPad make that mistake. They'll press down on the trackpoint as hard as they can and start complaining that they can't get anything done with my ThinkPad.

Jhonyl, you are exactly right, the pointer flys in the opposite direction, that is funny. I thought there was a noticeable awkwardness to it from time to time.

To avoid "TrackPoint drift" (it's a known problem with all pointing sticks), keep your finger off the stick until you need it there to move the pointer. That way, there's no force on the stick, so it won't drift nearly as much. Also, if you *MUST* keep your finger on there, I believe holding the middle button disables the anti-drift mechanism.

bhtooefr, Keeping the finger off the TrackPoint will help the odds that the recalibration will take place at a time that there is no force on the TrackPoint. However, since the recalibration happens all the time there is a good chance that it would happen while you try to move the mouse. Besides, holding the finger up in the air, or at a close key is inconvenient. You are right that holding down the middle button disables the recalibration. But you still need a program like AutoHotKey to intercept the middle clicks since some software would not appreciate that the middle button is pressed. Beside loosing the middle button functionality, holding down the middle button is not convenient at all. A mechanism that would hold down the middle button is also cumbersome, since it must be released and re-applied from time to time to cancel the natural drift. I tried it.

I'm using the TrackPoint drivers in standard scroll mode. With the middle button held down, moving the TrackPoint scrolls the page. Letting go switches back to normal mode. So, if you are *STAYING* on the TrackPoint, waiting to move it, that might help, running in that mode (it intercepts middle button presses, after all).

A simple wired mouse is still the preferred device to me, but I must admit that when working (not gaming) on a laptop, the trackpoint (especially with IBM's flat cap) and the new scroll feature with the help of the middle button comes [censored] close.

When I just browse or type, I need nothing more than the trackpoint. But when I play games where pointer precision is necessary, I find myself reverting to the regular mouse (optical wired is preferred).

Touchpads I can't stand. They are slow, and if you make them fast, they are inaccurate. They put strain on the finger. Without press-to-select, they are hell to use, because your finger moves relative to the buttons all the time. With press-to-select they are usable, but the constant accidental clicks and drags are annoying as hell.

I'd never buy a laptop without a trackpoint, and the first thing I always do is disable the touchpad in the BIOS (did so on my current T42 and on my older Compaq Evo).

I always use the TrackPoint, but I find that I'm faster when using touchpads. With touchpads I can flick my finger and quickly move the pointer across the screen, while with the TrackPoint, I have to keep pushing to move the pointer. If I set the TrackPoint sensitivity to make the pointer go really fast, then I can't seem to move it slowly when I need precision.

One thing though, there are many different manufacturers of touchpads. I find Synaptics (they make the UltraNav touchpad) to be the best. Alps seems to have trouble with pressure, and Elantech seems to have trouble with very slow movements.

Sometimes it gets tiring fighting with the trackpoint, the drift and constant recalibration. I know it has been stated that you should only use it in short increments and not hold your finger on it. I wish they would come up with a way to use it to "click" like when it is centered and you push down on it, it would act like a left click, or two short pushes would be a right click. That would be pretty cool. (wishful thinkpading I know).

Kyocera wrote:I wish they would come up with a way to use it to "click" like when it is centered and you push down on it, it would act like a left click, or two short pushes would be a right click. That would be pretty cool. (wishful thinkpading I know).

Probably depends on your TrackPoint generation, on the current TrackPoints, you can set it so that pushing down is a mouse click.

Kyocera wrote:Sometimes it gets tiring fighting with the trackpoint, the drift and constant recalibration.

That's a constant source of fun. Recent experience: When *any* button is held down, recalibration does not take place. I recently ended up holding down the left button, didn't touch the trackpoint, and the mouse pointer went straight across the screen, dragging some scroll bar behind it.

Kyocera wrote:I wish they would come up with a way to use it to "click" like when it is centered and you push down on it, it would act like a left click [...].

Hey, isn't that available already? For Windows, it's in the IBM TP tools software, and Linux has some kernel patch for it, AFAIR.

cheers,
-- fish

Kyocera wrote:Sometimes it gets tiring fighting with the trackpoint, the drift and constant recalibration. I know it has been stated that you should only use it in short increments and not hold your finger on it. I wish they would come up with a way to use it to "click" like when it is centered and you push down on it, it would act like a left click, or two short pushes would be a right click. That would be pretty cool. (wishful thinkpading I know).

Both the T42 and T30 have the TrackPoint IV, and therefore, press-to-select. (I think that debuted in the TrackPoint III, but I'm not certain...)

Go into your Mouse control panel, open the TrackPoint tab, and enable press to select. Make it as insensitive (Slow Press) as possible, or you'll be clicking everything in your path.

Alriiiightyy thenn!! Thanks bh! Does require a little getting used to.

I see the TouchPad is not fairing too well. 3 votes out of 53. Ouch!

TrackPoint is the best, and most ergonomic pointing device for everyday things. The placement is most optimal for switching between keyboard and "mouse".
I'm a keyboard guy, and prefers using Tab instead of pointing to select, and the central placement makes the occasional adjustment so much easier and ergonomic, than moving your hands off the keyboard to move the mouse.

The scrolling feature of the TrackPoint is very good. I have adapted to using the TrackPoint buttons with my left thumb, and always having my index finger near the Point.

I cannot say anything positive about TouchPads. The first thing I did was to get rid of it. It is placed where my hands often rest.

For high performance micing, I have actually completed Quake3 on normal difficulty, and completed 2/3 on hardcore. It's easy to impress people with a fast paced Quake3 game, using "the little TrackPoint thingie" in the middle of the keyboard.