Thinkpads Forum

I see they sell stand alone Thinkpad-esque keyboards for desktop usage.

Anyone here have them? I just sprang $115 on a Logitech wireless keyboard setup with mouse. I am thinking maybe I should return it and get the Thinkpad keyboard for the desktop PC?

Avoid the, "ThinkPlus USB Travel Keyboard with UltraNav" (e.g., 31P9490). It blows key caps at a furious rate - not a very rugged piece of kit.

jtreble wrote:Avoid the, "ThinkPlus USB Travel Keyboard with UltraNav" (e.g., 31P9490). It blows key caps at a furious rate - not a very rugged piece of kit.

Really? I haven't had any problems with mine, but it doesn't get heavy use, either. I'll be even more careful with it. I love the size of the thing, though.

My son uses mine. All of the arrow caps on the bottom right hand part of the keyboard are now gone. .

i have the USB travel keyboard as well (without the extra numeric keys portion) and it's been fine - no blown keys. I use it everyday almost all day, and have been for nearly a year now. In fact, if I can get my hands on another one to just to keep around, I would.

I certainly hope that they don't blow out like that. I have been quietly and patiently waiting to get one on eBay for a decent price.

I love my Thinkpad keyboards so much more than a standard keyboard. I still have one more PC that is mine, and I love to swap out the keyboard for a Thinkpad style keyboard.

I purchased one of the IBM wireless keyboards and it was pretty bad. I expected more from IBM. I now have a Logitech wireless combo and wont be turning back.
Which Logitech did you get?

If you're going to get an IBM keyboard, start with a Model M and then work your way down...

I somehow inherited something called a Preferred Pro USB which is nice enough, probably worth the < $50 price I've seen for it. Detachable wrist rest, above average key travel/feedback.

When I chucked my old Aptiva PC, I kept the keyboard. It's the 1986 Model M version. When my wife complained about the keyboard on her Dell, I just substituted the IBM keyboard and the complaints ended.

She now has an iMac and hasn't complained about the keyboard on that.

Well, I think the idea is to get ultra-nav or something similar to be on a desktop.

For coders the trackpoint is ultimately invaluable. Being able to go between mouse and keyboard in a millisecond (or less ) is really cool and the keybinds that you can use in Linux make your life a whole lot easier.

I have yet to find a cost efficient keyboard that has ultranav features. By which i mean ~30.

Cheers

i have a usb ultranav keyboard with the numpad- using it for a few years now and it's absolutely amazing... i spent some time without a thinkpad full time and i still could replicate some of the experience with the keyboard... i got so used to having the trackpoint in the middle of the keyboard that i found myself going instinctively to the GHB buttons and not finding a mouse there on normal keyboards... it really [censored] me off. thankfully my employer paid for my keyboard but if i had to buy another- i'd totally shell out the ~80 for it.
it even controls system volume on non-IBM systems and all the functions (except the Fn key) work...

I've used a variety (about 5) different IBM keyboards other than the ones on TPs. Although I actually type faster on TPs, I'll have the say that the old M style KBs are tough as hell. They can take a real pounding and keep working. There are some trackpoint versions of those KBs and they are great except for the lack of the scrolling function. I sold my black one on ebay about a year ago for something like $45. The later rubber dome type of KBs could also be had with trackpoints as well. I've also used those and although not as tough as the M style, better then most of what's out there. My current KB with trackpoint is a model they sold about 5 years ago for servers. It doesn't have the number pad so is very compact, plus it has the scroll mouse button in between the left and right mouse buttons like the Xs and new TPs. The down side of it, is that it was pushing $120 when I bought it new.

If you're patient, trackpoint KBs can be found on ebay relatively cheaply. My record is one of $6 that was originally designed for the compact PS-E "green" computer. The shipping cost more than the KB!

I love those old clicky keyboards. I just cant find one at a good price.

ThinkPad wrote:I love those old clicky keyboards. I just cant find one at a good price.

I just bought one this spring for $20, though it wasn't the loud kind. (I already have an old buckling spring model at home ... heavy enough to use for home defense.)

www.Clickykeyboard.com. ... http://tinyurl.com/rfuyh - Is that in your price range?

[edit] P.S. He sells superb PS/2 to USB adaptors that I highly recommend.

I just got an Thinkpad USB travel keyboard with ultra nav, very nice. Works pretty good with my desktop.

davidspalding wrote:

ThinkPad wrote:I love those old clicky keyboards. I just cant find one at a good price.

I just bought one this spring for $20, though it wasn't the loud kind. (I already have an old buckling spring model at home ... heavy enough to use for home defense.)

www.Clickykeyboard.com. ... http://tinyurl.com/rfuyh - Is that in your price range?

[edit] P.S. He sells superb PS/2 to USB adaptors that I highly recommend.

That is a good price, but the one you linked to states it not a clicky type...

Here's a pic link to my black M13 TP IBM spring keyboard, the best keyboards of all time, still sold (in white only) by Unicomp. I got a new pair off of ebay for sixty bucks a couple of years back. The keyboard weighs more than my R52.

http://www.dansdata.com/images/clicky/b ... rd1024.jpg

IBM Model Ms rule, period. I have them as my workstation and desktop keyboards and I haven't found anything that can replace them. The IBM Model M is most likely the best desktop keyboard ever made....*ever*

It is the keyboard of the True System Operator (it is also good, too good and expensive some might say, for the mere users...)

The original Model Ms have buckling spring technology and are pretty heavy owing to a good metal backplate.

Here is good place to get some

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... n/pageID/2

or, for some of the modernized models...

http://www.pckeyboard.com/

There are other sellers as well. Some of the newer models have the membrane technology, but those are not clicky, pretty quiet actually, and they have a slightly different tactile feel.

You can also get a Wi...Win..Windows Key on the newer ones if you want. (WHY?!)

Our office moved and there was a massive IT hardware clearout as part of it. I scavanged a Model M keyboard with the integrated trackpoint out of a dumpster.

Popped it into my computer and away I went back into memory land. I was a computer typesetter in the days before word processing tanked the industry, and I spent a lot of time on the model M. I could really crank back then, too. When I built my first PC in the 80s, I remember driving across town to pick up a used Model M for the keyboard (that was when a DX2-66 was screaming fast).

Unfortunately, my wife vetoed the touchpad M - "too loud" she said. Go figure. I love that clacky sound!

"I love the sound of the Model M in the morning. It sounds like . . . typing."

I have two of the white Unicomp Model M's (they made the M for IBM) too, the Trackpoint clones of my black IBM M's. I don't want to wear-out the IBM M's on daily drone work so the Unicomps were both under 20 bucks off of ebay in mint condition. The Unicomp Trackpoint is NOT identical to the IBM version, as there is more play in it. I called Unicomp tech support to see about adjustments of the TP (it has a hex socket for adjustment) thinking they were out of adjustment or maybe even defective. The Unicomp guy blew his cork at the latter comment and said they make the TP this way on purpose. I said then it is not identical to the IBM version, is it? He then hung-up on me. It's still ok, but even the response and general slackness of the two Unicomp TP's are not identical either, while they are on my two IBM M's. One great thing about either the IBM or the Unicomp is that the keycaps themselves have keycaps! To clean the keys you pop the caps off the other caps and clean each one away from the keyboard without any disassembling. The Unicomps are fine, but not quite as perfect as the IBM M. All four of mine are buckling-spring.

The keycaps are a great idea, I don't know how many people realize how much utter crap builds up beneath there and is hard to access without removing something from the top, the keycaps in this case.

Yeah, I noticed that the Unicomps changed the Trackpoint implementation around, didn't bother me too much but I still like the Trackpoint on my Thinkpads.

Good deal you got on the Unicomps off of eBay there.

I think there is another good reason to get a TP-sized keyboard, whatever it is called: the lack of a numerical key pad at the right. Most fullsize pc keyboards force you to put the mouse too far to the right on the table, resulting in excessive strain in the neck. So if you switch between keys and mouse a lot, a small keyboard without the numerical keys is better from an ergonomical point of view. I feel that the num block should always come as a detacheable unit that can be fixed to right or left at the user's discretion. These days, with the mouse mostly being on the right, the number keys should be on the left side. Apparently old habits are difficult to change.

fschwep wrote:I think there is another good reason to get a TP-sized keyboard, whatever it is called: the lack of a numerical key pad at the right. Most fullsize pc keyboards force you to put the mouse too far to the right on the table, resulting in excessive strain in the neck. So if you switch between keys and mouse a lot, a small keyboard without the numerical keys is better from an ergonomical point of view.

The keyboard doesn't force me to put it too far to the right - I don't have the mouse on the right side of the keyboard. For me, it's on the left side, and (this so confunds most people that it's almost a security feature), I actually have the button assignments set left-handed. Left-handed mouse buttons have been around since the Win3.1 days at least, and yet virtually no one seems to know about it. Want to watch a skilled computer tech fumble around Windows like a drunk monkey? Turn him loose on a left-handed mouse without telling him the buttons are switched - can be quite amusing, in a perverse sort of way. Heck, most of the lefties I know (other than myself) that do move the mouse to the left side don't switch the buttons, and they get as confused as the righties do if they try to use my machine with it's "backward mouse".

Oddly enough, I trackpoint with the right hand, though.

fschwep wrote:I feel that the num block should always come as a detacheable unit that can be fixed to right or left at the user's discretion. These days, with the mouse mostly being on the right, the number keys should be on the left side. Apparently old habits are difficult to change.

That sounds interesting (and probably a wise move ergonomically), but I don't think I'd buy one like that, given my "configuration". You're right about old habits, though - the number pad's location is probably based on where right-handed folks put their pocket caclulator on the desk when they use it (yep, you guessed it, the right side) when doing things like tax forms, balancing checkbooks, and so forth. Also, think about old pictures of people doing bookkeeping with adding machines - generally, they have the ledger in front of them, and the adding machine off to the right side. Everything is within convenient reach of the right hand - the pen/pencil for the paper, and the keypad of the calculator/adding machine.

Oh, and if you do design a keyboard that allows the number pad to be "docked" on either side, please do the lefties of the world a favor and make it possible to mirror the key layout - if my number pad were to be on the left, I'd still want the "+" to be outboard of the numbers.

Rob

Rob Mayercik wrote:

fschwep wrote:I don't have the mouse on the right side of the keyboard. For me, it's on the left side, and (this so confunds most people that it's almost a security feature), I actually have the button assignments set left-handed.

LOL! I do the same thing. And you're right. Having the mouse on the left utterly confounds anyone else who comes along to use my PC. I leave the buttons set right-handed though. Years ago, I used to bother to switch them. Now I don't. For some reason I like the left button to still be the left, no matter what. It's all what you get used to, guess.

Given that I do not swap the buttons, it's easy enough for my son to put the mouse on the right when uses the PC. He's left-handed, and prefers the mouse on the right. I'm right-handed, and I prefer the mouse on the left. Go figure.

JonathanGennick wrote:LOL! I do the same thing. And you're right. Having the mouse on the left utterly confounds anyone else who comes along to use my PC. I leave the buttons set right-handed though. Years ago, I used to bother to switch them. Now I don't. For some reason I like the left button to still be the left, no matter what. It's all what you get used to, guess.

Given that I do not swap the buttons, it's easy enough for my son to put the mouse on the right when uses the PC. He's left-handed, and prefers the mouse on the right. I'm right-handed, and I prefer the mouse on the left. Go figure.

Different strokes for different folks. You go with what works.

I have found that if the buttons are not switched, folks do fine with the mouse on the left side. I only see the fumbling start when the buttons are switched. Of course, seeing as I'm an engineer working in a building full of engineers, perhaps my "sample population" is providing skewed statistics.

After running "left-handed" buttons for 14 years now, I find it's my preference for desktop mice. At least most mice are designed to fit in either hand.

Rob

Just thought I'd let everyone know that memory4less is selling refurbished ultranav keyboards for $56.00.

dxben wrote: I just sprang $115 on a Logitech wireless keyboard setup with mouse. I am thinking maybe I should return it and get the Thinkpad keyboard for the desktop PC?

I would return it and get a $49 wireless logitec keyboard & mouse from Walmart Ten year Logitec warranty

I've been spoiled by my stockpile of age-old Model Ms (and my one new Unicomp) which I'm sure will live to age 50 and beyond. I use a silver label Model M from 1988 on my desktop and I have sold many Model Ms to my friends. Not even my ThinkPad 600 is as comforta