rescue and recovery 4.0 setup

[kccheng]

it ask me to download and run data migration utility from lenovo web site before installing. but i can't find it. anyone?

[Ken Fox]

it ask me to download and run data migration utility from lenovo web site before installing. but i can't find it. anyone?

Do yourself a favor, a really really really big favor ---

Your post was the first indication I've had that they released version 4 of this program, and checking the Lenovo website it was released TODAY.

R&R is a pretty buggy and troublesome program in the best of circumstances. I might count on it when I was out in the middle of nowhere and had no other choice, but there are much better backup solutions out there.

That having been said, do you really want to be one of the first beta testers of this software? That's what you are volunteering to do by trying to use it at this point.

If you rely on this program, I suggest you find something else, like Norton Ghost 2003 or Acronis Truimage. If you are going to use R&R then use an earlier version of it until others have taken the risk with this new version. If you insist on using it, make sure to image your hard drive with ghost or truimage or whatever beforehand, on the off chance that you end up with a scrambled disk.

[kccheng]

ok i think they released it yesterday,
and i don't really use it, i just want to keep my computer up to date.
and yes i use true image.
and i think u are a bit over reacted.

[Ken Fox]

ok i think they released it yesterday,
and i don't really use it, i just want to keep my computer up to date.
and yes i use true image.
and i think u are a bit over reacted.

I'll let others weigh in on your last point.

Loading unproven, new, software you "don't use" just to "keep your computer up to date" is a recipe for later aggravation.

[kccheng]

well i have been doing these for 15 years, beta OS, beta stacker, beta double space, you name it.

and isn't it natural to see what do the bundled softwares do when u have a new computer?

[ashleys]

R&R is a pretty buggy and troublesome program in the best of circumstances

I can only speak as I find and I've used it for years without any problems.

I've used it when installing new disks and to do my regular (weekly) full backups. I also do incremental backups after every software update.
I've done full disk restores and individual file restores and all have worked without a hitch.

I've tested it using the pre-desktop area, a bootable USB disk and the bootable recovery CD and all worked.

[Ken Fox]

R&R is a pretty buggy and troublesome program in the best of circumstances

I can only speak as I find and I've used it for years without any problems.

An earlier version worked for me twice; since then I've had problems with things such as failing to restore the service partition and getting halfway through a set of restore disks and getting an unrecoverable error message. Fortunately, I also had Ghost backups, which worked.

I think if you (collectively) read through posts in these forums on backup software, you will find that few experienced forum members would rely exclusively on R&R as a backup solution. I don't think the program is without merit, but I do think it should be used within its capabilities, where it provides something that other programs do not. In this context, the one thing it can do that other more well regarded programs (e.g. ghost, acronis, maybe others) cannot do is to restore a system when one is away from home, assuming the hard drive itself is not inoperable.

Here's how I'm using it: if I'm not using a laptop for travel and it will be used in or near my home, I erase all backups from R&R and leave them off the drive to conserve space. This also will make backups made with other software (e.g. ghost, acronis) much smaller as you are not backing up a backup in addition to disk contents. When I'm getting ready to go on a trip I'll do an R&R backup AFTER I've already done a ghost 2003 backup. If needed (unlikely) on the road then you have the added protection of the R&R backup where it might help you out. When I get back home, if it is for an extended stay, then I remove the R&R backup, buff up the system with a registry repair utility, degrag, then do another ghost backup.

For someone who travels constantly it would make more sense to leave the R&R backup on the machine, but if you are going to be home or have access to backups made with a "more reliable" backup program, I'd say, save the disk space and rely on those programs rather than R&R.

Just my opinion.

[mephie]

An earlier version worked for me twice; since then I've had problems with things such as failing to restore the service partition and getting halfway through a set of restore disks and getting an unrecoverable error message. Fortunately, I also had Ghost backups, which worked.

As a quick side note, Rescue and Recovery doesn't back up or restore the service partition at any point, so if you're having problems restoring the service partition, the problem you're seeing may not be the problem you think you're seeing.

[GomJabbar]

Generally speaking, I believe it is better to stay with the version of Rescue and Recovery that originally shipped with your ThinkPad - primarily for the following reason (I think this applies at least to all major upgrade versions).

Any machine that has IBM Rescue and Recovery with Rapid Restore Ultra 1.0 or IBM Rescue and Recovery 2.0 factory preloaded, then installs Rescue and Recovery 3.0, will lose the ability to have Rescue and Recovery installed on the machine after a Restore to Factory contents action is selected when booting from the computer's hard drive.

Rescue and Recovery 3.0 updates the contents of the recovery environment stored on the computer's hard drive. Restoring to Factory contents does not alter the recovery environment and could result in an inconsistent configuration. Therefore, the ability for the factory preload to install IBM Rescue and Recovery with Rapid Restore Ultra 1.0 or IBM Rescue and Recovery 2.0 after Rescue and Recovery 3.0 has been installed was purposely disabled.

Rescue and Recovery 4.0 - Considerations

Additionally, all previous backups you have made likely will not work (although this depends on the setup).

[egibbs]

As a general rule I would wait at least a couple weeks (better a month or two) to install updates to any of the following:

Rescue & Recovery
Client Security
Access Connections (less critical)
PC Doctor

That is based on both personal experience and reading the experiences of others here. If your system is working well why rush? Let someone else feel the pain.

A good example - R&R 2.0 was integrated with CSS. When R&R went to 3.0 they split them up. Within a couple days they discovered that a bug in the new CSS was keeping owners with certain setups from being able to login - they were essentially locked out of their machines.

So they pulled the CSS download from the site. But they left the new R&R up. When I downloaded R&R 3.0 it uninstalled CSS, installed R&R, made a new base backup (3 hours), then told me I needed to install the new version of CSS. When I went to the IBM site looking for CSS all that was there was a note saying the file had been pulled because of an issue, and would be posted again once the issue was corrected.

I use CSS to manage secure volumes where all my important stuff (including my Quicken files, etc.) is stored. No CSS, no reason to turn the computer on.

Ok - uninstall R&R 3.0 and reinstall R&R 2.0 with CSS. Oops - R&R cannot be installed because a newer version is already installed. No it's not - I just uninstalled it! Fire up regedit, dig through the registry finding R&R keys and deleting them. Finally get R&R 2.0 reinstalled, make another new base backup (2.0), breathe a huge sigh of relief when my secure volumes are once again mountable. I think it took IBM about a week to finally post the corrected CSS.

Total time wasted - around 7 hours including 2 complete base backups. Several new gray hairs and a new appreciation for "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

Ed Gibbs

[ashleys]

My use of RnR ...

My T30 originally came without it. First version I downloaded was V1.033 in 2004 and have used all versions since.

My drive is partitioned as follows,
C: System volume including all installed applications
D: *ALL* user data including E-Mail stores, documents, spreadshhets, all downloads etc.

I have removed the service partition.

I use RnR to backup just the C: volume to an external USB disk. This USB disk is also bootable with the RnR pre-desktop area. I also have a bootable CD with the RnR product on it.

As mentioned before, I make regular (weekly) full and incremental backups and have never had a problem. I've tested both full volume restores and individual file restores and both have worked correctly.

After installing every new version I always (re)create the bootable CD and USB disk so they have the new version and then take a full backup.

Note from the bleeding edge : I've just installed RnR 4.0 and from this side of the pond everything looks good

[Ken Fox]

As a quick side note, Rescue and Recovery doesn't back up or restore the service partition at any point, so if you're having problems restoring the service partition, the problem you're seeing may not be the problem you think you're seeing.

I didn't know this, but then I don't rely on the program (R&R) and have stopped using it. It is good information for those who would use R&R to restore their systems (assuming it is correct for all systems and versions of R&R).

I still regard R&R as a poor substitute for a freestanding imaging program, which WILL image all parts of the hard disk. Something like Truimage or ghost 2003 (I use the latter).

I think it is important to distinguish between backups of a whole system and data backups. I would never use an imaging program or R&R for data backups; they are simply too cumbersome, take too long, and end up backing up mostly old stuff and very little of what you want to back up in this circumstance, i.e. the portion of your data that has changed since you last backed it up.

Here's what I do for DATA: I have a data directory on my drive that has nothing but data on it. Each program has a sub directory for its data under the general data folder. I instruct all my programs to use these locations for their data. Then, when it comes time to back up my data, I just copy the "data" directory with all its subfolders and voila! A data backup! With my laptops I use either flash memory cards or a USB2 key for these backups as at least in my case the amount of data I use on the laptop, the part that changes, is under one GB and this storage is CHEAP. Alternatively, one could always burn a DVD, use an accessory or ultrabay hard disk, or other forms of backup media. I would advise NOT using the same hard drive (e.g. a different directory) for these backups; you need separate media, as the backup is to protect you from such things as a hard disk failure.

Now on to whole system backups. These differ because the data is already backed up, so what you are attempting to do is to copy your Windows system so that if you have a hard disk failure or your system is compromised in some other way, that you can restore your programs and operating system (and I would add, for thinkpads, your service partition) to a recent working state without the need to reinstall everything from scratch. The easiest way to do this is to use an imaging program like Acronis or Ghost and do the backup as files on a separate hard disk, although backups to DVDs will also work fine (if slower and more tedious). This sort of backup needs to be done periodically, especially after major changes such as installation of new complex programs or a service pack (etc.). I don't dread the fact that I might have to apply 2 weeks of updates were I to lose a hard disk; I can deal with that. What I don't want to do is to have to start all over from scratch. So, at least for my usage, weekly or even monthly system backups are overkill.

Where does R&R fit into this schema (for me)? It offers nothing over what I get from Ghost 2003 for system backups. It certainly offers nothing at all from data backups as I can do these within Windows daily and it takes a minute or two, a simple copy and paste job onto a flash drive. The only thing it offers, to me, is the ability to recussitate my hard drive from a non fatal compromise while away from home without access to my real system backups. Used this way, I think it has some potential, but relied on exclusively for backups, I find it wanting and untrustworthy.

[mephie]

Rescue and Recovery not backing up service partitions is, in fact, true of all versions. Obviously you're going to do what works best for you, and I applaud your meticulous nature as exhibited by an ability to manually back up data directories on a regular basis. I'd venture to say that's a little too interactive for most users.

RnR can effectively do what you're doing, only it can do it via scheduled and silent execution. It sounds like you haven't played with customizations much, such as inclusions, exclusions and single instance storage, which, if any of your files are significant in size is an absolute life saver (or space saver at very least).

I'm sure you're aware RnR can back up to external and/or network media. The ability to mirror these backups automatically is a huge advantage in the corporate world, as well. Additionally, RnR only does a "whole system backup" once, when it creates the base backup. The rest of the backups are "incremental" backups, comprised only of files that have changed since the last backup.

RnR is not a poor substitute to a free standing imaging program because it's not a substitute to a free standing imaging program at all. That's an apples to oranges comparison. Though since you mention Ghost, that may well be where you saw issues restoring a service partition. Ghost does a notoriously poor job of handling Type 12 partitions and can have some difficulty with boot managers as well. It's good to be familiar with the -ib and -id switches if you plan to use Ghost on a drive with a third party boot manager and/or maintenance partition, respectively.

Regardless of whether RnR is involved, it's great you've found a backup methodology that works well for you. That's the important part. There's a great deal of data out there that's not adequately protected. It usually only takes one catastrophic loss, whether it's a hardware failure or theft or whatever, for a user to wise up.

[Ken Fox]

Rescue and Recovery not backing up service partitions is, in fact, true of all versions. Obviously you're going to do what works best for you, and I applaud your meticulous nature as exhibited by an ability to manually back up data directories on a regular basis. I'd venture to say that's a little too interactive for most users.

It really is not that difficult; all you have to do is to make a data directory and when you install a new program direct the program to put its data into that directory rather than into "my documents" or whatever the default directory would be. For that matter, you could just use "My Documents" as your data directory which is presumably what MS expects people to do even if a lot of programs don't do that.

I have no doubt that this sort of customization is beyond the interest or ability of the average user, who has really no idea how their computer does what it does or why. But then, this forum is populated largely by geeks, people who do find this sort of stuff interesting, so when directed at that audience I don't think it is difficult to implement.

As to the abilities of R&R to be customized, I am aware of them but have never used them. One reason I've not bothered with that is that I don't really trust the program. I've had two instances where it failed to restore a system, one of which would have been catastrophic had I not had a slightly older ghost 2003 backup. Lenovo/IBM/Thinkvantage has done themselves no favor by constantly changing version numbers, interfaces, and methods of use. In the last 3 years we have gone from versions of "Rapid Restore Ultra" through a whole list of revisions and version numbers of Rescue and Recovery. In that process they have had buggy versions which failed to work well and gave users gastritis.

During that same period of time I've been able to use the same ghost 2003 boot floppy configured to use USB2 devices with a very simple interface and a system that has never failed me. The only caveat I would add to that is that when the ghost images are written to optical media the verification process is less trustworthy, so I would advise using a USB2 or Firewire (boot disk needed would have different drivers but easily made from ghost 2003 program) hard drive rather than optical drive. The boot sector issues you point out are valid but with 45 seconds instruction you could show someone how to properly use that program and the problem would be eliminated. Failing that, the IBM MBR repair floppy or CD will repair the "damage" of a corrupted boot sector in 2 minutes flat.

Corporations and large offices supporting multiple computers are going to have different needs from individual users. I cringe at the thought of what it would be like to be an IT person working in a place like that supporting lots of users most of whom are nearly computer illiterate. The points you make are very valid in that environment and R&R may be the best solution for that environment. For individual users or those in small offices, however, I don't think that necessarily holds up.

[ashleys]

As I mentioned before, I only use RnR for the system volume.
Having worked all my life in mainframes, I organise my PC data as I would on the mianframe (as much as I can).

That means all user data is kept apart from system data, hence my D: volume. Within the D: volume everything is placed in correctly named folders. This makes it so easy to find anything. For example, I have a folder called ThinkPads and within that there are subfolders for each piece of ThinkPad software, firmware and BIOS updates etc.

Of course, once you know where everything is, backups are a breeze. I have a DOS batch file called BACKUP that will do an incremental XCOPY from D: to a BACKUP partition on one of my USB devices. I have another DOS batch file called MIGRATE that will do an incremental XCOPY to another USB device. Therefore, at any time I have two copies of *ALL* my user data.

As I now use my ThinkPad as a backup to my desktop, I need to keep the two D: volumes in step. That is the simple task of plugging in the USB drive into the ThinkPad and typing in RESTORE. This runs a DOS batch file which does an incremental XCOPY from the USB drive to D:
When something is quick and easy it encourages you to do it regularly. However, the correct organisation of the data and the discipline to stick to it *IS* required.

Personally I cannot see how anyone runs a machine with just a C: drive and data just landing anywhere. To me that's a recipe for disaster.

[mephie]

Having worked all my life in mainframes, I organise my PC data as I would on the mianframe (as much as I can).

Dear god, I had no idea. I salute you. I will now drink a Guinness in your honor...

[Ken Fox]

Having worked all my life in mainframes, I organise my PC data as I would on the mianframe (as much as I can).

Dear god, I had no idea. I salute you. I will now drink a Guinness in your honor...

Dear god, they still have mainframes? Oh, she's in the UK. Maybe that explains it

[ashleys]

Yes we still have quaint old traditions like mainframes here in the UK.

Furthermore, Ashley used to be more popular as a boy's name as well and the last time I checked, that was indeed the case

[jparrot427]

Hello,
>>Ashley used to be more popular as a boy's name as well and the last time I checked, that was indeed the case

You think that you have problems with Ashley ? I am Jean ( John for you Angloes ). In Montreal.

Getting serious, I have used R&R 2 and 3.0 and every time it worked fine by me. I loved the way that a backward R&R would present a fine one block defrag of the HD.

My only regret in R&R is that it takes up to 3 hours to do a BU, TI will do one in >10 minutes. Now, if only TI could do a 2 HD BU C:\ and D:\ to a two partitioned USB HD !!! It will show the USB HD as H:\ and I:\ but when doing the "Next" click, it shows the whole USB HD as one device of total space.

Anybody here with a solution to TI ? JP.

[ashleys]

I agree that RnR is a bit slow but it's caused by the data compression.
On my backups I get a 2:1 compression ratio which is useful but it's a real CPU hog.

My system volume has 10.5 GB of active data on it. This takes about 35 minutes to backup to an external USB2 disk.

As a rule I do a full backup once a week so I'm used to it by now.
I just kick it off and go and do something else and come back later when it's finished.

[Talon88]

:::

Back to Original Poster's (OP) question, How can I upgade
to RnR v4 from v3? It said I need to run "Data Mirgration
Utility" first & can Download from Lenovo. But I can't
found that too.

AnyOne Upgrade to RnR v4 yet....?
And How....??

:::

[ashleys]

Last week I upgraded to V4.0 from V3.1 without any problems.

Are you running V3.0 or V3.1 ?
The documentation states you can only upgrade from V3.1.

The alternative would be to uninstall your current version and do a clean full install of V4.0.


Ps. Using V4.0 I've tested a full system volume recovery without any problems.

[ashleys]

run the data migration utility

The only software that I can think of that matches this is the
System Migration Assistant. The latest verison of that is V5.2.

Go to the ThinkVantage downloads page, URL here,
http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/think/thinkvan ... pport.html

and download it.

The RnR documentation does not state it's a prerequisite for installation. However, I do have SMA installed and certainly didn't get your error message.

[YourOldBuddy]

it ask me to download and run data migration utility from lenovo web site before installing. but i can't find it. anyone?

It actually comes on the page with the stand alone install of CSS8.
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-66952

Mostly it seems to pull information from your user account to a root directory called migration assistant something or other. I used it and everything looked fine. I didnt know the superuser information when I got into CSS8 and it asked for and shut the computer down. Now that I have the PW, CSS8 doesnt seem to see the security chip as active and doesnt show the same prompt again and all cleans and reinstalls have prooven fruitless. PW manager wont run properly and my brand spanking new T60 needs a reinstall.

Better skip this one I think. RNR 3.1 and CSS7 for the time being I think and maybie PW manager 5.6.

[wackydan]

I never got the migration message with installing 4.0

However, I uninstalled 3.1 and installed 4.0 which is fairly standard and recommended.

As for those that don't like RnR - well, it has a fit. I think the one thing that we forget is that it's tailored towards the all too common software image failures due to virus/malware, and is specifically valueable as someone pointed out when you are locked in a hotel room and have no other safety net.

4.0 is essentially 3.1 with a new feature or two... the main reason for the ver update is the twin update/release of 4.0 for Vista.

RnR has never let me down - meaning it has saved my bacon twice.

[Talon88]

:::

After I've deleted the old R&R and CSS,
I can upgrade both without problem.

Also, I like the new CSS which is more simple
& Direct....!

:::