Have Z61m, getting R61: Dock + Graphics questions...

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Syphon Filter · #1 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:29 am

Hi guys,

First post here so I'll start by saying hi & merry christmas!

Now onto the question I have. Currently I have a Z61m (9450-3HG) which is my personal comp for home use etc. I plan on getting a an R61 for work (on the companies tab of course).

Specifically the one here:

http://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/Lenovo_T ... ersion.asp

It's pretty close in spec to my Z61m and I am comfortable with that. I dont need anything monsterous. I will definitely upgrade it to 2GB of RAM and that should be no problem (will probably buy some Crucial RAM or something).

Does anyone have opinions on the R61 series? They seem pretty good to me for price:features.

The REAL question I have is the following:

I quite fancy one of those ThinkPad Advanced Docks. The MAIN reason for this would be so I can drop in a graphics card and have access to a couple of DVI-D Dual-Link ports to drive a 30" behemoth of a monitor at 2560x1600 resolutions.

I have read countless threads on this site about the Advanced Dock and the NIGHTMARES people are having trying to get graphics cards working in the PCI-express 1x slot.

My questions are really two fold:

1) Will both the Z61m and the R61 work in the dock (be it advanced or mini?)

2) Which graphics card can I get for the Advanced Dock that is definitely going to work and give me Dual-Link DVI?

I really hope someone can help me as I have trawled and trawled this site and I can't quite seem to find a definitive answer.

I really appreciate any input you can give me.

TIA

Syphon

#2 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:15 am

I can heartily recommend you to read this posting about PCI-e gfx on the new Lenovo Forum:
http://forum.lenovo.com/lnv/board/messa ... read.id=41
The gist of the above post is: get XP rather than Vista, and get a card from Matrox.

As to the dock compatibility:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-61232
Make sure to read the Notes:

Oh yeah, and welcome to our Forums!

Syphon Filter · #3 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:16 am

RealBlackStuff....thanks for the help.

Here's the real kicker for me:

my Z61m has an ATI graphics card, running vista

I believe the R61 is an nvidia card in it running XP

and obviously i would be looking at putting a matrox in the dock...

This is going to be a nightmare. Maybe I wont bother. Seems like a lot of grief! Why is it never easy to get these things workign

Is there no other way of getting DVI-Dual-Link working properly with these things?

BTW: I am changing from the R61 to a T61 of similar spec but smaller HDD and CD-RW/DVD-ROM instead of DVD-RW.

#4 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:25 pm

The guys in that Lenovo post want 3-4 monitors extra.
With you only wanting Dual-DVI, a Matrox Millennium G550 LP PCIe would probably suffice, if 32MB memory is enough.
What you want to use it for? They have a lot more models.

Syphon Filter · #5 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:09 am

Dude, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to guide me through this, I'd be lost without some help.

Right this is the setup I have:

Z61m 9450-3HG - ATI Mobility X1400

T61 6457-4UG - Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M

I also now have the advanced dock.

My intention is to run 2 external monitors (either 2x30" or 2x24") AND the internal monitor if possible. I understand that to run the 30" screens to their full potential (2560x1600) I need a card that is capable of DVI-D Dual Link. So I was hoping for a card that I can drop into the dock and have 2x DVI-D Dual Link ports available.

I obviously also need to be aware of driver conflicts as I will be using both machines in the dock and with the screens.

I dont intend to do any gaming etc (although it would be a nice bonus and if it means I need to get a more expensive card I am comfortable with that). Mainly I will be running my devlopment tools and photoshop as I design and program GUI's for control systems.

So I think the bottom line is, I want to able to run 2 external monitors (as well as my internal LCD if possible). Mostly 2D (possibly a little CAD but not much), gaming would be a nice bonus but not really a requirement and Dual-Link DVI is a must.

NOTE: Dual-Link DVI-D is different to just 2x DVI-D ports. It's a different connector and has extra bandwidth which allows for the higher resolution (i.e. 2560x1600). So a two port DVI Dual-Link card could run two 2560x1600 screens, which is what I am looking for.

That's about it. If you can offer some advice that would gratefully received.

TIA.

Syphon

#6 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:26 am

The problem with that Advanced Dock is, that it has only PCI-e x1.
I have not (yet) found a card that can do your resolution of 2560x1600 in x1 format.
If an x16 card also works in an x1 slot, then look at this card:
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php? ... 0161204273

I noted on nVidias website, that they have a GeForce 8600 with the dual ports you are looking for:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_86 ... specs.html
BUT it is x16.

An alternative for a Mac which MAY also work in the dock is this NVIDIA GeForce 6600 256MB - PCI Express
http://www.digitaltigers.com/graphics-cards.shtml

Matrox does not seem to have a card that goes over 1920x1200, as used in this:
http://matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/pro ... ppcie1.php

But they can reach 2560 x 1024 with this yoke:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/29/ ... alhead2go/

Lenovo says this ATI X1300 card should work at 2560x1600 in the Advanced Dock:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67432
Make sure to read all the documentation, incl. the 'Technical information and limitations...' doc.
It does not (yet) include a mention of the T61, but if T60 and T60p work, probably a T61 will also work.
However, the support is limited to Windows XP only!

FYI, all the DVI-connectors are shown here:
http://www.lyberty.com/encyc/articles/t ... -types.jpg

Hope you can wade thru all this and find what you need.

Syphon Filter · #7 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:56 am

Hrm...that's slightly annoying. I guess I should have done more research before buying the dock.

It's look like I can't get the functionality that I desire from this device. Looks like I have bought a dock that's going to be of no particular use to me!! Oh dear.

I was hoping to stick in something like this:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... subcat=938

or this:

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... subcat=912

I think it's becoming apparent that the PCI Express x1 slot doesnt have the bandwidth to support what I want to do.

I dont mind have to downgrade to XP to get this working but it seems it's just not going to work at all...

#8 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:17 am

Read my previous post again, I've been adding some more bits (e.g. nVidia Geforce 8600).

Here's an article about various PCIe slots:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/ ... pcie.ars/6

One thing comes to mind, why do you want to do this using a laptop, why not get a (tower-)PC that can do it all?

Well, there seems to be another solution:
http://sewelldirect.com/ExpressCard-to- ... Length.asp
http://www.magma.com/products/pciexpress/expressbox1/

Syphon Filter · #9 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:27 am

Because i work from home some of the time and then out in the field the rest of the time. Having to constantly move things around between the computers owuld be a pain for me as I often have to go at short notice etc. So I tend to do it all on my laptop and just dock when I am at home. I really should have researched more. The company I bought the dock from wont take it back without a restocking fee so I cant even get a full refund. If there was a way of getting this thing working then I would be very happy but clearly the x1 slot is the limitation. Totally gutted...

#10 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:29 am

Whoops, I just added an alternative to my previous post: that adapter.

Syphon Filter · #11 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:51 pm

RealBlackStuff,

Thank you for all your help and suggetions. I just dont think it is possible to do what I am want with the advanced dock. That adapter you link to looks cool but its quite costly (ie a lot more than the dock + graphics card). Nevermind, I am going to my retailer tomorrow to see if I can get it swapped for a Mini Dock instead, no point in having the huge thing taking up desk space etc if I cant get the functionality I want out of it. I will have to see what the retailer can do for me tomorrow.

Thanks again for all your help, it was much appreciated. I should have researched my purchase more fully. I simply read that it had a PCIe slot and figured that was all I needed to know!! More fool me.

Thanks again.

#12 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:11 pm

You're welcome.
If you could live with a lower resolution, then it could still work though!
But asking from a laptop (however good it is) to perform like a PC is pushing it.

Syphon Filter · #13 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:02 am

Double post sorry.

Syphon Filter · #14 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:07 am

Hey dude,

I got my Advanced Dock changed for an Advanced-Mini and I will just run one external display off it.

Is there anyway of knowing/testing what the highest resolution I pump out of the DVI port on this thing is?

I want to get the highest resolution monitor that I can run off the port but I dont know of a way to actually know what the achievable resolutions are? I going to do some googling now to see what I can find out but if anyone has any ideas that would be really useful.

FWIW I have the following equipment:

Z61m - ATI Mobility X1400 (128MB RAM)

T61 - Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M (512MB RAM)

Thinkpad Advanced Mini Dock

Both my thinkpads have internal displays of 1680x1050. I am hoping that they will both support 2560x1600 over the DVI port that is on the dock so I can run a single external 30" display. If I can some how confirm that capabilities of each of the machines I can choose a monitor accordingly.

If anyone has any thoughts it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Syphon...

#15 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:25 am

Your Z61m/ATI X1400 can display on an external monitor, using DVI: 2048x1536
But your T61/nVidia 140m can do better at: 2560x1600

Correction (quote from Lenovo):
Support for a DVI monitor (available on select models with discrete graphics chipsets) is through the ThinkPad docking options and is limited to a resolution of 1600 x 1200, 60 Hz mode.

Syphon Filter · #16 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:31 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Your Z61m/ATI X1400 can display on an external monitor, using DVI: 2048x1536
But your T61/nVidia 140m can do better at: 2560x1600

Hrm, did you lift that from the Lenovo specs page for those machines? Because I saw that too...but I've never heard of the 2048x1536 resolution before. Sounds like a funny size to me?!

#17 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:45 am

I just delved deeper into it.
Looks like the external DVI monitor can only support 1600x1200.

I changed my original post above.
The max resolution as indicated was the max. res on the internal LCD under best circumstances.
If you want higher res. You will have to go back to the Advanced Dock with a card for just 1 output monitor.
If you give me a few minutes I'll try and find the info I had before, with their links.

Syphon Filter · #18 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:45 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Support for a DVI monitor (available on select models with discrete graphics chipsets) is through the ThinkPad docking options and is limited to a resolution of 1600 x 1200, 60 Hz mode.

Surely not? I am sure I saw something about a guy using his T61 on a mini-dock and getting his Dell running at 2560x1600??

Hang on...let me find the link, will edit in a couple of mins.

#19 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:47 am

Z61m:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/m ... -z61m.html
T61:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=190811

Syphon Filter · #20 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:16 pm

Cool, you're a serious searching and information posting machine!! I really appreciated it.

Here's the link I was talking about:

http://www.carltonbale.com/2007/09/revi ... nkpad-t61/

It seems to me that Carlton has the T61 (with the Quadro I have) and he claims to be running it at 2560x1600 no problems. So thats great. It certainly seem that it will work. If I get a similar setup to his I will be good to go just that my Z61m will just run at 2048x1536 on that screen. But I believe that the new Dell 30" has the option to do 1:1 pixel mapping. So the image will display in the middle and just have a black border around the edges. Beyond that the other option is the use the monitors internal scaler to just just scale the image to fill the screen space. This may result in some slight blurring or loss of quality but it depends greatly on the scaler that Dell decide to put in the upcoming 30" refresh (3008WFP).

I am going to keep and ear to the ground on this and also stick a quick post/question on Carlton Bales blog. Thanks again for your help RealBlackStuff...

The post in which you state the DVI will be limited to 1600x1200 60Hz is now not applicable right?

#21 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:30 pm

The 1600x1200 is what I found on Lenovo's website.
But lately it seems that Lenovo is not always updating their info in a timely manner.

Read that Lenovo-post again (in my first answer to you). There are some more updates.

Syphon Filter · #22 Post by **Syphon Filter** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:03 pm

Hrm, I just tried to post on that blog but it hasnt shown up yet, I assume its being vetted before being thrown up for view?

I work with technology everyday and some pretty complicated systems design and spec. but this docking station/resolution stuff is crazy. It shouldnt be this hard!!

algous · #23 Post by **algous** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:47 pm

Syphon Filter wrote:Both my thinkpads have internal displays of 1680x1050. I am hoping that they will both support 2560x1600 over the DVI port that is on the dock so I can run a single external 30" display. If I can some how confirm that capabilities of each of the machines I can choose a monitor accordingly.

If anyone has any thoughts it would be much appreciated.

Hi Syphon,

Could you give any updates?

Did you succeed in running 2560x1600 resolution with your Z61m ATI X1400 via Advanced Mini-Doc?

Have Z61m, getting R61: Dock + Graphics questions...

Have Z61m, getting R61: Dock + Graphics questions...

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