Thinkpads Forum

Hi,

From a post on this forum, I found out that RR 4.2 had been the cause of my misery for the past few days! This version causes serious problems with my T61:

1. Chkdsk refuses to run during start up. All start up programs that tries to access the HD will refuse to run telling me that there is something wrong with my hard drive!

2. XP takes a long time to boot and sometimes it crashes! Drive access is very slow!

My current solution is to uninstall RR and all my problem disappears. But I need RR to backup my notebook. Can Lenovo fix this ASAP!

Thanks,
Chris

If you need to run CHKDSK to fix a problem on your filesystem, then run it from the Windows Recovery Console.
CHKDSK /R will do an extensive check on the disk and repair problems.
When you next boot Windows, there will be a Winlogon entry in the Event viewer showing the full details of what was repaired.

Ps. I'm running RnR 4.2 without any problems, apart from the inability to run CHKDSK at boot time.

My other problem is the slow HD access and inability of XP to complete booting in some instances. This was again solved when the latest version of RR 4.2 was removed.

When I had this problem, XP takes about 4-5 minutes to complete booting. Now it only takes 1 minute.

Regards,
Chris

I also wanted to run CHKDSK, but it just won't run after reboot. I have the last R&R version (4.2) installed. I hope they will fix it soon... I would be happy to know that they are at least planning to fix it someday...

Ashleys:
How do I get into Windows Recovery Console? In Windows XP.

The Windows Recovery Console is not installed by default.

Please see the link below for details on how to install and use the Recovery console.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654

The problem is the tvtumon.sys driver, which is now set to load at the kernel initialization stage. This "locks" the boot drive, and causes chkdsk /f and any other program that requires exclusive access to the drive to fail as part of the BootExecute entry in the system registry. The temporary fix is to change the start value for tvtumon in the registry from 1 (loaded by I/O subsystem) to 2 (loaded by service control manager). This fixes the problem with the chkdsk failing on startup, but I'm not sure what it does to RnR 4.2 functionality.

The specific registry entry is:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\tvtumon\] "Start"=dword:00000001

Change the dword to 2 and you are done. Please do not try this if you do not have experience with modifiying system registry entries.

I'd like to thank bparekh for his solution - after searching for a fix for a few weeks this solved my problem.

I had recently installed the RnR 4.2 update on my T61 running Vista Home (along with a Lenovo Vista SP1 patch and some other Lenovo and M/S updates).

After installing the update when chkdsk ran at startup to check C: it caused a "Cannot open volume for direct access" error at boot and could not complete.

The other symptom was I could no longer boot into safe mode.

I called Lenovo support and they didn't have a fix for the problem nor did they have any record of RnR 4.2 causing problems.

I made the suggested change to the registry and it fixed the problem.

Note: It wasn't the exact registry entry described but I had no problem searching for a "tvtumon" key and changing it.

Question: How come Lenovo hasn't fixed the problem?

Question: What functionality am I losing by delaying when RnR is loaded?

What is really annoying is that they keep claiming they have no record of RnR 4.2 causing any problems, despite numerous complaints to them. One of the main reasons I've bought Thinkpads for the last 10+ years is their excellent reliability and technical customer support. I'm afraid Lenovo is not living up those standards.

bparekh, thank you. That solved it also for me.

It is very sad that they say nothing is wrong with R&R. If they only admitted that they know about it and they are working on it! Even saying that they are unable to fix it would be better than saying that nothing is wrong...

This fixes the problem with the chkdsk failing on startup, but I'm not sure what it does to RnR 4.2 functionality.

It seems to make no difference to RnR 4.2 functionality. I've made the change and everything works fine, including being able to run CHKDSK.

Once again, thanks bparekh.

I wonder if this might also be the cause of my inability to boot into "safe mode" at boot time.

My system starts to boot into safe mode and starts printing out the list of drivers, etc. that it's loading. It always stops right after "mup.sys". The HDD spins and spins and probably would indefinitely if I left it alone, but the system never completes the boot into safe mode.

I can't otherwise figure out what is preventing it from continuing.

I was having the other problem with CHKDSK at boot time and RnR 4.2. I wish I'd seen this before I got fed up and removed RnR from my system.

Oh well, live and learn. Glad to see a workable solution. It's a shame that Lenovo seems to be falling down on the job with these "Think Vantage" utilities.

>>> The problem is the tvtumon.sys driver, which is now set to load at the kernel initialization stage. This "locks" the boot drive, and causes chkdsk /f and any other program that requires exclusive access to the drive to fail as part of the BootExecute entry in the system registry. The temporary fix is to change the start value for tvtumon in the registry from 1 (loaded by I/O subsystem) to 2 (loaded by service control manager). <<<

Thanks! Fixed my (wife's) T43 chkdsk /f problem too .. before I went totally nuts.

Excellent - fixed my slow boot and chkdsk problem also! Come on Lenovo sort it out!

Thanks

Ant

bparekh wrote:The problem is the tvtumon.sys driver, which is now set to load at the kernel initialization stage. This "locks" the boot drive, and causes chkdsk /f and any other program that requires exclusive access to the drive to fail as part of the BootExecute entry in the system registry. The temporary fix is to change the start value for tvtumon in the registry from 1 (loaded by I/O subsystem) to 2 (loaded by service control manager). This fixes the problem with the chkdsk failing on startup, but I'm not sure what it does to RnR 4.2 functionality.

The specific registry entry is:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\tvtumon\] "Start"=dword:00000001

Change the dword to 2 and you are done. Please do not try this if you do not have experience with modifiying system registry entries.

Thank you. I have used this on multiple Vista systems and it DOES work.

This solved my chkdsk problem on my T61p running XP Pro I've had since day one. This also solved booting in Safe Mode and running PartitionMagic.

Thank you very much for this post

Sorry to come late to the party, but I also am having an issue with RnR and chkdsk. It does seems however that my registry settings is set to the above but still having an issue although my issue appears to be slightly different.

I was doing some preventative maintenance (won't do that again) and I ran a chkdsk and upon doing so the chkdsk would freeze at 22% and file 38888 of 186962. So I hard shutdown and it did it again.. confused I wanted to run the onboard hardware diags and when I would go into RnR it would throw up all sorts of memory errors with the tvt_pda_registry_importer.exe and the required data was not placed into memory because of an I/O error.

Anyway.. I thought that I would try and update RnR through SystemUpdate and it keeps failing. !?! ARgh..

Any ideas? where is the download stored through SystemUpdate so I can delete that and have it re-download it?

I had the same problem with chkdsk not running on my son's T61. I spent hours trying to work out the problem, ensuring the disk hardware was ok, talking to Lenovo tech support, all sorts of stuff. The Lenovo tech support guy actually said "Oh Vista has that problem" in a deprecating way. I said I hadn't seen it on any of my other Vista computers but to no effect.

Then it started happening on my T61. I finally stumbled across this forum and this thread. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

So, before I make the registry fixes on my two T61's, has anyone heard a peep from Lenovo on this? If they are going to fix it, I'll wait for the update.

But if they continue to be silent and pretend it's not their problem, then I will do the fix. And, lose a lot of respect for Lenovo. I just switched to Lenovo because of their reputation for service, quality, and reliabiity. But if they going to just hit us with bad bloatware and poor customer service, this might be the end of it for me.

Any ideas? where is the download stored through SystemUpdate so I can delete that and have it re-download it?

You might be better off downloading the RnR install package and running the install manually. That's what I always do and it works for me.

RnR download link here,

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... Q2QAK.html

On a "new" T60, after upgrading R&R from 3.1 (which didn't work anyway) to 4.2, an intricate process, at least for me, I found that the registry value was already "2" instead of "1". So perhaps Lenovo has been watching thinkpads.com.

However, in doing the registry search for tvtumon, I came across hundreds of keys marked LEGACY, for example LEGACY_TVTUMON. Is that normal?

I'm new to this ThinkVantage stuff, but it strikes me that the functionality of R&R is rather basic. In the days of DOS, you'd expect a package which did what R&R does, to take up maybe a few hundred K. But R&R is a few hundred Meg. The complexity is not in what it does, but in what it has to deal with (Windows).

It should be the one under Service folder. The solution works for my case.

JonathanBe wrote:On a "new" T60, after upgrading R&R from 3.1 (which didn't work anyway) to 4.2, an intricate process, at least for me, I found that the registry value was already "2" instead of "1". So perhaps Lenovo has been watching thinkpads.com.

However, in doing the registry search for tvtumon, I came across hundreds of keys marked LEGACY, for example LEGACY_TVTUMON. Is that normal?

I'm new to this ThinkVantage stuff, but it strikes me that the functionality of R&R is rather basic. In the days of DOS, you'd expect a package which did what R&R does, to take up maybe a few hundred K. But R&R is a few hundred Meg. The complexity is not in what it does, but in what it has to deal with (Windows).

Is this Lenovo's response to the issue? Has anyone tried it?

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-70050

I reverted the registry setting back to 1 and then applied the latest RnR fix.

The CHKDSK problem no longer appears, so yes, the latest fix does seem to work.

I have an intermittent problem with computer not responding during bios setup program, other dos programs booted from CD, or not booting into WXP at all. No problems in windows. Could this be related to the RR issue above?

Thanks

With XP SP3 I could not run CHKDSK no matter what I did to RnR including registry tweak, and removing Norton/Symantec thoroughly.

Finally I took the risk of installing Recovery Console and running from command line. That worked, given I had the knowledge to point it to C:\i386 instead of the D:\i386 location RC expects.


Lenovo are pointing to their recent HD quick test software, which does little as far as I can see except for reading the Smart predictive diagnostic info, and to their recent Toolbox software (aka PC Doctor 5.1.5032.24) which does have a "surface scan" test.

Initially I could not install either because they want a newer version of Microsoft .Net (2.0) than installed by their Recovery CD. .Net upgrades are optional, not normally flagged by Microsoft Update unless run manually in which case they may or may not show up under Optional updates. Another forum recommends bypassing 2.0 to go directly to 3.5SP1, which I did and then was able to install Toolbox.


Part of Lenovo's confusion may be terminology, they use "scan disk" not "check disk" - competent support people should be able to translate but you know how many are not, and the description of changes in the .txt file for the patch is vague and terse.


Regarding bootup pausing with mup.sys displayed, that is just the last command _completed_ - it's the next command that is hanging, IIRC involving drivers.

Lenovo advise to install Toolbox, aka PC Doctor5....something. It has a surface scan feature which I take to be the equivalent of Windows CHKDSK. It also has the HD Quick Test they advise of, which is not a surface scan, but for the original drive does use the Smart predictive diagnostic feature though my drive always fails – probably I should send it for warranty repair. On first look Toolbox seems worthwhile.

There are several tools from IBM/Lenovo including to make boot media for diagnosis. I haven't tried any that handle 32-bit files like the mini version of Windows that is in Recovery Console provides albeit limited in commands for safety, some are PC-DOS 7.1 so may have more commands but probably won't handle long file names nor 32-bit files nor NTFS volumes well.

IBM/Lenovo have provided potentially useful features in Thinkpad setup schemes and associated support software, but have not done a complete job, have defects and omissions, and have not explained them well at the conceptual level especially as they differ from standard Microsoft Windows methods that people are accustomed to and get pointed to by advisors. Somewhere among all the IBM/Lenovo tools including boot media there may be command line ability from boot media when Windows won’t start. Someday I may figure it out.

Why do I have to learn to be an IBM technician to do the basic things I could do if I bought a standard Windows computer?

[much of the above sent to Lenovo]

A clarification on the surface scan feature of Toolbox - it seems to report only pass or fail, whereas Microsoft Chkdsk gives stats and repair options. Perhaps Toolbox has a log, I didn't see it.