Is D-Link the best source for 802.11n-capable access point??

Message

Crunch · #1 Post by **Crunch** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:50 pm

Hi all...I recently installed my Atheros a/b/g/n card, more specifically, the Atheros AR5008, and reading through the Atheros website, it seems that D-Link is the company, which has the Atheros chipset in it. There is no Atheros router, per se, but D-Link has won all kinds of awards, perhaps because of its dealings with Atheros!

I am a total Atheros fan, as it was like getting a new technology, even when trying my Atheros mini-PCIe card in my T60p, compared to the Intel 3945ABG I had in there before, on only 802.11g!! G was SO much faster using the Atheros card instead of the Intel that it convinced me right then and there, way before I got an N router.

Having said that, I need to make a decision as to which N access point to get, and it does seem that D-Link might be my best choice to go with, rather than my beloved Linksys routers that I have used in the past, and solely for the Atheros chips apparently "running" the D-Link equipment.

Just from the experiences with the Atheros-N card, I'm sold on ANY Atheros-powered equipment, so I'd like to get opinions from D-Link users, Linksys users, Atheros users, and anyone else who is knowledgeable in WiFi.

Thanks all!!!

SHoTTa35 · #2 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:25 pm

the Dlink DIR-555 is the fastest N router at the moment and i think it's a Atheros also. Check on tomshardware.com

#3 Post by **bill bolton** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:32 pm

SHoTTa35 wrote:the Dlink DIR-555 is the fastest N router at the moment and i think it's a Atheros also. Check on tomshardware.com

SmallNetBuilder.com is a MUCH more reliable source of information.....

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/componen ... Itemid,200

Cheers,

Bill B.

Crunch · #4 Post by **Crunch** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:10 am

bill bolton wrote: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/componen ... Itemid,200

Cheers,

Bill B.

Woah...Nice and user friendly to get FAST analyzes! Thanks Bill!

SHoTTa35, I'll also check tomshardware.com. I just needed something quick for right now.

Anyway, according to that chart on smallnetbuilder.com, after putting in wireless-N, and WiFi, it came back with three search results. Atheros or not, Linksys is still the winner! Could it be that Linksys is also getting their chips from Atheros? Not that it necessarily matters. I am only being nosy!

And what a surprise, though. The real winner out of ALL three is Apple's Airport Extreme, making Linksys and D-Link distant 2nd's and 3rd's. I was surprised at that one!

Alright, so the 600N it is for back home. However, for the time being, I need an Access Point only. Linksys has one only I think, and I forget the model #. What should I get for the AP I'm going to use and also leave for my family here, where I still hang out in Europe?? Stability is of utmost importance. And what do you guys think about Netgear??? This one superstore, which is even a large chain (but doesn't accept credit cards...I don't get this country, I really don't) offers mainly Netgear and a few items from Belkin.

So Netgear vs. Belkin on the "not as well known front" I hope this was diplomatic enough so as not to offend anyone with this equipment, as I'd like to hear from you Netgear, and Belkin users, too!!!! I have a Netgear AP, and it works great. It's a G one, and I need one for N.

Again, no router needed (nor wanted!)...just a good ol' AP!

Thanks again guys!

Crunch

#5 Post by **Kyocera** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:29 am

Cisco has been the standard for networking equipment for a long time. They purchased Linksys some time ago, perhaps this accounts for the ability of Linksys to stay totally competitive in this market.

rek · #6 Post by **rek** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:32 am

The one thing I like about the Linksys routers is that many of them are able to run third party firmware that supports a lot of features not available from most consumer grade devices.

www.dd-wrt.com is the one I'm using currently on a WRT54G and WRT300N and it's very good.

Crunch · #7 Post by **Crunch** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:26 am

Woohoo!!! So I got the D-Link Access Point DAP-1353 today and set it right up! The "E" I mentioned previously only means "version 2".

The reason I'm not more excited than I usually get with this stuff are a few things that I cannot seem to get working, and the speed is "only" 130Mbps.

Well, I used the CD to do this "Click'n'Connect" thing and it works great. First, I did it WITHOUT any security, as I thought, and as the software suggested, to do it after that part was finished and go right into the web-based tool to tweak everything the way I want it.

Well, the documentation says that the IP address of the router is 192.168.0.50, and it would not work. The range was great, too. It didn't matter if it was right next to me, or all the way down 2 flights of stairs.

So I go back down, get it upstairs, connect to it via Ethernet, and put WPA-TKIP security on it. Why not WPA2, or anything else? Because, and this is likely unnecessary, the DSL modem/router has WPA-TKIP security protecting it. :rolleyes: I know, I know. lol...

Now, I go back down, put it back and connected it, and ever since I put the protection on it, the system feels it's only a G router!!

So right back down to 54.0Mbps, and the better range is gone, too. Still no access to 192.168.0.50...

So what's happening here?? Does the encryption have something to do with it working as an N router?? I don't see why that would be!??? And why only 130Mbps. Luckily, and as I said in a previous post, I briefly had the FritzBox 7270 router, and I got the full 300Mbps right away. I generally had speeds over 200Mbps, so by process of elimination, that tells me it's not my internal Atheros card causing any problems!?

One more thing. I had Access Connections installed, and while Windows had not ever "considered it to be" an N router, even when I had the 130Mbps speeds. Access Connections did. Not all the time, though. Now, it only sees it as G, just like Vista.

So what now??? It works at least, and I have it protected by WPA. Should I change the security method?? I uninstalled Access Connections to see if that made a difference. It didn't. But I had wanted to get rid of it anyway, as I don't need it.

And why the 130Mbps?? Why not 300, or at least over 200? And why 130? Consistently?? Why not 150, or 108, you get the idea...

And what's up with the 192.168.0.50 not working...at all?? Is there an alternate IP I can try? I had the same problem with my now retired Netgear AP which was G only. Couldn't get into the darn thing.

Please advise.

SHoTTa35 · #8 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:48 am

i thought you would have read some of the info that's been posted in the other threads you started

To get anything over 54G and N you HAVE TO HAVE WPA2 AES. NO exceptions. Hehe... WPA2+AES is a requirement of the N standard and anything else will bring you down to 54Mbps.

As for getting more than 130 - well another requirement of the N standard is the 5Ghz band, the A band. The WAP you have now only has 2.4Ghz and therefore you'll never see more than 130Mbps. All compatible Draft 2.0 clients should support this.
As you see from your box you had before:

WLAN-Dualbandunterstützung für 2,4 GHz- oder 5 GHz-Verbindungen

It has both 5Ghz and 2.4 which is why you got those speeds.

some reading from before: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 796#408796

There was a reason everyone commented on the Linksys WRT600N

Oh and about the IP for the WAP. Are you using a 192.168.0.X range on your router (DHCP)? If you are using a linksys system then it's normally 192.168.1.X therefore you should change the WAP to 192.168.1.50 or just put 1.2 at the end.

Crunch · #9 Post by **Crunch** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:21 pm

SHoTTa35 wrote:To get anything over 54G and N you HAVE TO HAVE WPA2 AES. NO exceptions. Hehe... WPA2+AES is a requirement of the N standard and anything else will bring you down to 54Mbps.

As for getting more than 130 - well another requirement of the N standard is the 5Ghz band, the A band. The WAP you have now only has 2.4Ghz and therefore you'll never see more than 130Mbps. All compatible Draft 2.0 clients should support this.
As you see from your box you had before:

There was a reason everyone commented on the Linksys WRT600N

Alright, I got it to where it's stable, but it only ever shows up as a G router still according to Windows.

I did what you said, and encrypted it in WPA2 mode...but it turns out the quick start utility, currently my only way to tweak it at ALL, resulted it WPA2-TKIP! I want to say that I remember that I had 300Mbps with the FritzBox without ANY encryption...I'm not sure, though. It may not have been operating at those speeds, for example, and someone else said the exact same thing you did, and you always sound VERY sure of your answers, so you're obviously very knowledgeable when it comes to any type of WiFi issues. The quick start guide made no mention of it at all, but I certainly believe YOU over this piece of paper.

And I STILL can't get into the darn browser setup tool, which would likely resolve EVERYTHING!! If I could only TWEAK IT there, as I saw some screen shots of it, and I'd be in heaven! Arghh...

So I tried all the IP's you said to try, as well as its own IP, and nothing. Does the fact that I run Vista 64-bit have anything to do with it do you think?? I may just install XP x86 for the heck of it. But not quite yet, as logic does not dictate that I do so as of this time. I have several 64-bit drivers to choose from for the Atheros N card, and the AP does not need any drivers. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

I'm still having fun, though! LOL...There is probably something on the DSL modem/router I could tweak to make things better. Any ideas?

So anyway, for yours, and everyone else's convenience if they want to partake in this highly interesting (to me) setup of the N Access Point, please take a look at the pics below and please help me find the best settings for the various Atheros card values. I would think that it has at least the potential to be a source of SOME of the problems. I simply do not know what some of these settings mean...

And once again, PLEASE, do you, or ANYONE else, have ANY additional ideas as to how to "break into" the IP-based tweaking tool???????? That would be a source of such genuine happiness for me. lol...

Lastly, I have decided on something that I usually NEVER do. I lowered my expectations...lol. More specifically, if I can just get 130Mbps, that would be fine with me. Although the AP has 300Mbps written ALL over the box, quick guide, full manual, etc., so it should be possible.

Thanks again SHoTTa35!!! You rock!!

#10 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:42 am

I guess the firing squad is loading their guns!
This blatant ignoring of forum rules (huge pictures and no warning) deserves no less!

#11 Post by **erik** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:56 am

i linked all of the pictures since crunch didn't put up an image warning. this just cost me about $5 on my blackberry.

besides, what was pictured could have been written much more quickly and easily than taking nine screenshots.

#12 Post by **bill bolton** » Thu May 01, 2008 6:24 am

Crunch wrote:And I STILL can't get into the darn browser setup

If you had Intel 4965AGN cards and a Linksys WRT600N, it would all just work, straight out of the box!

Cheers,

Bill B.

SHoTTa35 · #13 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Thu May 01, 2008 7:53 am

Well you still didn't answer the question about your IP range you are in now.

When you check YOUR IP does it say 192.168.1.XXX or 0.XXX? If you are in the 1.XXX you will have a harder time getting connected to 0.XXX. Manually change your IP (TCP/IP config) to:

192.168.0.2
255.255.255.0
192.168.0.1 (or .50)

and save that. Then you should be able to connect to the web admin page from there on out. (page 52 in the manual)

If you already have 0.XXX then i'm not sure why you can't get to it. Can you ping the IP?

Until you have WPA2+AES you will get it showing as a G network.

And i doubt the Intel/Atheros thing has anything to do with it. This would be more of a Linksys/Dlink fanboy issue

hehe. Since i think you have a Linksys router which normally runs in 192.168.1.1 and Dlink by default goes to 192.168.0.1 is why you are having the problems.

Crunch · #14 Post by **Crunch** » Thu May 01, 2008 8:48 pm

I apologize for the pictures. I didn't know there was supposed to be a warning. It won't happen again!

RealBlackStuff wrote:I guess the firing squad is loading their guns!
This blatant ignoring of forum rules (huge pictures and no warning) deserves no less!

Squad? Guns? What? Is it really that dramatic? I guess it's because a lot of forum members use PDA's to view the threads?? Is that it? Like I said, I apologize, and it won't happen again.

erik wrote:i linked all of the pictures since crunch didn't put up an image warning. this just cost me about $5 on my blackberry.

besides, what was pictured could have been written much more quickly and easily than taking nine screenshots.

erik, $5, are you serious? I can totally Paypal you $5. Sorry dude. I didn't know it would cause such an outrage. I know it could have been written faster, but the snipping tool made it real easy and fast, and as I said in that my post with the pics, I did it solely because I thought it would *help*, rather than hurt.

In any case, I apologize for the pictures without warning, and it won't happen again!

Again erik, thanks for fixing it for me. How did thatjcost 5 bucks? I'll Paypal you the money right away if you want! You guys have all been awesome to me, and I've learned SO much, it'd be worth sending you 10 times as much!

bill bolton wrote:If you had Intel 4965AGN cards and a Linksys WRT600N, it would all just work, straight out of the box!

Cheers,

Bill B.

Bill, I made a mistake with getting the D-Link. It's laughable that they claim all over the box, manuals, and every piece of documentation, even with huge graphics, and boasting speeds of "up 650% faster" than 11g, etc. What a joke. How can they make these claims? A major WiFi company like D-Link? It says 300Mbps with a comparison chart with 54Mbps and lotsa cutsie graphics. Naturally, it would have to have both the 2.4GHz, as well as 5GHz bands for that to be true.

As for the card, I definitely prefer the Atheros card. I got it working to the point of 130Mbps, and it is screaming fast, thanks to SHoTTa35's knowledge, which far exceeds D-Link's. This POS is going back as soon as the Linksys (a brand I have been loyal to for YEARS(!), except with this POS, and the Netgear AP I bought, because the idiots at this fairly large "Best Buy"-like chain they have over here (I'm still overseas), do not carry Linksys products, but I already found a specialty store where I ordered it.

As for the miniPCIe card, I definitly prefer the Atheros card, and I would not be able to run the Intel 4965AGN card due to BIOS restrictions. Well, I would now that there is the apparently very well working BIOS hack, but if you saw the difference between the two cards just on G, I wonder what your opinion would be then.

I also want to apologize for the pictures without warning. I'm sorry, and it won't happen again!

SHoTTa35 wrote:Well you still didn't answer the question about your IP range you are in now.

When you check YOUR IP does it say 192.168.1.XXX or 0.XXX? If you are in the 1.XXX you will have a harder time getting connected to 0.XXX. Manually change your IP (TCP/IP config) to:

192.168.0.2
255.255.255.0
192.168.0.1 (or .50)

and save that. Then you should be able to connect to the web admin page from there on out. (page 52 in the manual)

If you already have 0.XXX then i'm not sure why you can't get to it. Can you ping the IP?

Until you have WPA2+AES you will get it showing as a G network.

And i doubt the Intel/Atheros thing has anything to do with it. This would be more of a Linksys/Dlink fanboy issue hehe. Since i think you have a Linksys router which normally runs in 192.168.1.1 and Dlink by default goes to 192.168.0.1 is why you are having the problems.

SHotta35!!!! My main man...My....brother from another mother...I am now running 130Mbps, using WPA2-AES. Juuuuust like you promised it would. Like I just responded to Bill, NOWHERE in the documentation, OR the full manual for that matter, did it say this and other important facts, and mind you, after you had told me, I looked for these things in particular, and it did not say anything, anywhere!! So that means you're better than D-Link. If it offends you to mentioned your name in the same sentence as D-Link, please accept my sincerest apologies.

And as I just wrote in a bit greater detail to Bill, 300Mbps is ALL over the box, etc., with lots of fancy graphics, too...

At any rate, I tried every last troubleshooting method that the documentation said to do. Well, let me run it by you guys and see if that even made any sense to do. The D-Link manual, the full manual, suggested to do the following:

Disable the firewall (no, seriously!)
Disable any anti-virus/anti-spyware software (I have proof!)
Reset the router to factory settings

I tried it all, for kicks, and naturally, it made no sense, but I just want to have tried it, so that I can say that I did when I try to stop myself from throwing this POS at the person who sold it to me, which will be Monday most likely.

You gotta be kidding me. By the way...umm...Can I please retract my statement from my previous post (the one with the pictures without warning, and I'm sorry by the way, and it won't happen again!) when I said I was going to be satisfied with 130Mbps??

Thanks to you, I put WPA2+AES (not TKIP) on that baby via its "Click'n'Connect" tool., and sure enough, it's running at 130Mbps now without a hitch. NOWHERE did it say that, and I made it a point to look for it after you said to do that in order to get above 54Mbps at all, but not the Quick Start Guide, not the full manual, not the box, which has pictures of a race car, and the speedometer is at 300Mbps LOL...all the while missing the entire 5GHz band. Wow! You talk about product misrepresentation from a major, and established WiFi giant like D-Link!

At any rate, so that's fixed, thank you! I still have not been able to get into the browser configuration tool, and the only response in the Troubleshooting guide was to turn off the firewall, any anti-virus/anti-spyware software, and to revert everything back to factory settings. So for the purposes of being able to say I did all of that when I take it back, that didn't work either. 192.168.1.50, and the various .0.1, .1.1., .1.0, .0.2, .2.0, etc. also failed miserably!

And I'm no fanboy of D-Link. The only reason I gave this thing a chance is the apparent Atheros chips that may or may not be in it. But I am now going back to the Linksys brand, which I have been loyal to for years and years, and which, even in its pre-Cisco days, has never given me any problems except for the occasional router reset (not hard reset, the unplugging kind). The last router I had, the WRT54G v8 I never had to reset even ONCE. And I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I am going to get the 600N DUAL-band router as soon as I get back home to the U.S., but unfortunately, I am at the mercy of what I have to work with here, which only allows for an access point, and then there is the lack of aqvailability of Linksys equipment of any kind, so I will order (would have done it today, but there is a holiday here today, 5/1) the Linksys equivalent to this POS D-Link non-sense I bought. First thing tomorrow!! I'll keep this 130Mbps thing until it comes in, and then swap it out for the real deal. I'll look up the model #, but I had looked it up once, so I know there is ONE Access Point of the 11n kind, and that's coming my way!

Now, as far as the "webtool"...I'm going to configure it the way you said, and I'll respond back as soon as I will have done so.

Thanks again ShoTTa35, Bill, erik, and everyone else who helped me! erik, let me know about the money you spent on me. I really would like to pay you back ASAP...and SHoTTa35, now that I have a go-to guy for WiFi...umm...now that was presumptuous on my part. Strike that...lol. But I can help you with things like RAM chips, hard drives, parts for Thinkpads. I noticed we almost have the same Thinkpad, so please let me know if I can do anything for your continued help and patience. Don't think it goes unnoticed. I appreciate it very much!! If you happen to have AT&T as your wireless carrier, then there is a LOT I can do for any of you! Just let me know. I enjoy helping out!

Until next we meet,

Crunch

SHoTTa35 · #15 Post by **SHoTTa35** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:06 pm

Well glad you got it working somewhat. I guess those systems came out before Draft 2.0 which is where the new rules went into effect. Technically you can do 300Mbps in 2.4Ghz but the new rules of 2.0 is that all 2.4Ghz devices wont allow channel bonding (40Mhz) in the 2.4Ghz space. So if you downgrade your drivers (atheros card) and firmware on the WAP you will get 300Mbps connection rate.

I was going crazy when i got my N card and N router thinking that too. Bill was the first to point that out then i did some checking and noticed it on the Intel site.

http://www.intel.com/support/wireless/sb/CS-025343.htm

NOTE: Intel does not currently support channel bonding for the 2.4GHz spectrum (802.11b and 802.11g).

Also as the site says, not all countries allow channel bonding so you might not get it depending where you are also. (or at least which country you configured the router for or bought it in)

#16 Post by **erik** » Thu May 01, 2008 10:19 pm

Crunch wrote:
erik wrote:i linked all of the pictures since crunch didn't put up an image warning. this just cost me about $5 on my blackberry.
erik, $5, are you serious? I can totally Paypal you $5. Sorry dude.

haha... no, it's cool. i was being sarcastic.

Crunch · #17 Post by **Crunch** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:45 am

Hmmm...wouldn't downgrading to Draft 1.0 entail losing all kinds of benefits that Draft 2.0 has, and now Draft 3.0 which was released in January??

When can I expect a firmware uprade to 3.0 for both the Atheros card, as well as the Access Point from Linksys that I will soon own.

I read there were TONS of improvements in Draft 3.0, and then again in 3.0.2.

I hope this Linksys AP comes in before the next Laker playoff games! The picture quality is IN-SANE when you have 3,000kbps rolling into the Slingplayer! So I will benefit from the 300Mbps for streaming my U.S. channels from the west coast all the way over to old Europe. Oops, did I say that out loud? Well, let's not get into politics hahah...

For example, I can't STAND CNN International. It's so boring, so when I turn Slingplayer on, I get my U.S. CNN with all the crawlers, and the bad jokes between anchors, the BS they broadcast, and let's not forget about the high entertainment value of this general election year. I love this stuff!

Any of you run Slingbox? If there's an event that you'd like to see, I don't mind sharing. Bill? lol...You're an Aussie, right? You wanna see what we put on TV in America? It's quite pathetic as of late! But you can watch this nonsense in HD, and there is also Tivo, so that you will not miss even ONE second of it. haha...

erik, well, thanks for fixing it for me then!! I had a feeling there was something not right. If you need to borrow money, just say the word.

SHoTTa35: I sent you a response to your email. Thank you, Professor.

I'm losing it. I'll see y'all later tonight! Thanks all!!!!!

Crrrrrrunch out!

Crunch · #18 Post by **Crunch** » Tue May 13, 2008 6:11 am

I knew it was a simple thing I overlooked. I knew it was an obvious thing I overlooked. Turns out it was.

I'm slinging like crazy with the latest firmware on the D-Link AP, and the latest 64-bit driver for Atheros...all the way from the WEST COAST!!!!!!

Vista finally recognizes my Access Point as a wireless-N AP, too! And no more 130Mbps. It displays the straight 300Mbps now!

Of course, it's not reeeaally running at 300, I know. Which utility can I use to measure the ACTUAL speeds I'm getting? Speed tests reveal around 15,000kbps, and the range on G was poor and dropped a lot, whereas this baby is usually "Good" (three bars) and occasionally "Very good" (four bars), so the range is significantly improved, as promised! Mind you, I am TWO floors up from where it's located, and exactly on the opposite end of the house! Impressive. Very impressive!

Thanks everyone for helping me! Hopefully this will help someone else as well. I will make myself available for any and all questions now that I've learned a LOT about WiFi, and it was all a rousing success in the end!

Will Draft 3.0(.2) be released anytime soon for us N'ers??

Is D-Link the best source for 802.11n-capable access point??

Is D-Link the best source for 802.11n-capable access point??

It's done!! Sort of...

Allllll done!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who is online