Anyone use a Computer Analyzer to diagnose TP faults?

[poshgeordie]

I have been lent a couple of those Computer Analyzers you see advertised on eBay:

The Laptop Dual mini-PCI and LPT Version 2.0, and manual

And the PC Analyzer M04A-D and manual
(There's a flow diagram which I can sort out and post if it helps)

Example: a TP where the fan starts up but nothing appears on the display and you want to identify the fault.

The analyzer card is plugged into the mini PCI slot (or the Ver2 can use the LPT slot and USB slot for some TP's) and the TP started.

The analyzers work by reading the bios outputs for 80+ areas of the laptop.
A button on the analyzer allows you to cycle through the checks, with each result shown on the 4 segment display.
You then refer to the manual for a diagnosis relating to the numbers / characters.

Where it now becomes tricky is making sense of the numbers for each check.

The 'default' bios readings in both manuals don't include IBM, so as instructed I've gone to bios Central for the IBM error codes.
Unfortunately I still can't make anything of the results when using a variety of known faulty TP's.
To add to the confusion, the 2nd unit appears to be more automated and I can't make out what it's on about.

I have it on good authority that this 2nd unit does work on TP's, and gives meaningful results to allow identification to major chip / component level.

Can anyone help or does anyone have experience of these devices?

Alternatively does anyone know of a diagnostics device for TP's, which does not rely on a working display and a hard disc fitted to the TP with an OS on it?

I'm aware that there's then the small problem of actually replacing say a north or south bridge chip, but for now I just want to identify the fault.

[rkawakami]

I believe that this type of diagnostic board simply reads the POST fault codes and displays them on a couple of 7-segment LEDs. The main problem with boards like this (as you have found) is that you need to have the correct code list from the BIOS manufacturer. From what I know, most Thinkpads have a BIOS provided by Phoenix. Whether or not IBM uses a different error code set than the "standard" ones created by Phoenix, I don't know.

Since Thinkpads have their own error codes (displayed and beeped) and have a brief explanation of those codes in the Hardware Maintenance Manual, that's probably the best you can do. To diagnose a system which does not have a working display or a hard drive you can try attaching an external monitor and a floppy drive or CD, booting it using a copy of PC Doctor for DOS (which is available for almost every Thinkpad). If the system is so dead that the external display does not work or it can't boot from a diskette or optical drive, then you're probably looking at a major problem with the motherboard. That could be power, CPU, memory or chipset faults. Or it could simply be a loose connection somewhere.

[poshgeordie]

Thanks Ray. I did wonder if the bios was Phoenix based, since more of the codes seem to match compared with other listed manufacturers.
The problem remains in trying to meaningfully interpret them.
I'll explore that further and see if I can match the codes to the published IBM ones.

I spend a lot of time playing around with T4x's with supposedly faulty graphics. Before doing any graphics work I would like to be sure that this is the actual fault - a fair proportion of them don't show the typical fault symptoms of intermittent graphics with pressing down on the chip or flexing the board etc.

Also when F1 into bios on startup, I've found that many of these 'faulty graphics' machines don't act as if they have actually reached the bios screen (CRC1 errors etc notwithstanding).
It appears that when booting a known working TP into bios or password screen, the I/O button has to be pressed for some seconds before it powers down.
I've found that a significant number of faulty T4x's will shut down immediately the I/O button's pressed, and thus appears to indicate other (unknown) problems.

it's these problems I want to accurately diagnose, or to confirm that it's graphics based.

PC Doctor does look the best tool to use but with the one downside - it needs working graphics.

Applying lateral thinking here, I wonder how easy it is to tap off the inputs to the graphics chip input and run them to the graphics chip inputs on another 'test' board - or whether this would even work.
I'm ignoring the physical how to connect to the pins - that's solvable.
I'll see if I can find data sheets for the graphics chips (I've got the part numbers), but any inside knowledge on the chips would help.

Any further ideas welcome!

[sparta.rising]

Excuse me if I'm not understanding correctly, but if by "faulty graphics" you are referring to the extremely common GPU problem mentioned in countless other threads, there is nothing wrong with the GPU itself, its a connection problem (see the countless other threads for how it happens). If this is the fault, then the laptop shouldn't be able to boot at all, it will just start the fans going, but it won't read the hdd or cd, and it shouldn't be responding to keyboard input. If however your laptops are starting and going to the BIOS screen, but you are unable to see something on the display, your problem most likely isn't the GPU, its probably the LCD panel, the cable, or a fuse on the motherboard. If its the panel or cable, connecting to an external display should work. I did however come across an R51 with a bad LCD panel AND a bad VGA output whose motherboard was perfectly fine.

[poshgeordie]

Sorry SR - to explain what I mean by booting into bios in these cases - T4x or whatever with nothing displaying on either the external or internal screens.
I start up the TP 'blind' and press F1 and let it run for about 1 - 2 minutes to make sure it potentially reaches the bios screens (still blind here).
I then hit Enter key and after about 30 secs F1 again, just in case it's reached that screen which says about needing to set date and time and to press F1 to continue or enter etc.
Doing that should guarantee the TP will reach the bios screens if it has the potential to do so, even though there's nothing on the screen.

What I was saying about powering down is that I've noticed that a significant number of TP's power down immediately at this point, whereas my experience of one which has reached the bios screens correctly takes a few seconds pressing the I/O button to power down.

We use infrared reflowing equipment here and get in loads of T4x's with reported gfx probs. The only problem is that many of them don't show the fault here when the chip's pressed, TP moved, flexed etc.
When these TP's are reflowed it doesn't often cure whatever fault the TP has.
Therefore I'm extremely interested in carrying out a proper fault diagnosis on all TP's prior to doing a reflow.

Also just to clarify about picking up inputs to the gfx chip, since it's BGA it's going to be a lot more difficult to pick up the correct points.

Thanks for clarifying 'faulty gfx', which I mean is hotspots problem across the chip assembly causing warping, and BGA 'pins' pulling off the motherboard.

You do have a point about the external VGA connector with that ribbon cable and I'm now going to check every unit with a known good assembly.

It may be that I'm looking for faults which don't exist, but are fuse or poor connection probs.

[sparta.rising]

Best of luck, report what you find out. Definitely check the fuses, very easy to check and fix.