Thinkpads Forum

What do you all prefer as an external hard drive? Just ~100-200GB to hold a good system backup and keep regular backups of documents.

- A packaged USB Hard drive (Like the Passport)
- Home made - i.e., buying a 2.5" drive and putting it into an external enclosure


I have:
T23, T41p (IDE/PATA)
T400 (SATA)

I thought I'd just get an 2.5" IDE enclosure (like this) and buy an IDE hard drive to go in it - that way I could also use it put my T23/41p hard drives in it to transfer files to my T400.

But then I'd be stuck with buying an IDE drive as the backup drive....

And these packaged external drives are looking very handy...

Are there benefits to them? Is the software/one-button backup great or a PITA? (My eyes are glazing over from info overload after buying and setting up my t400. )

I could get one of those for regular use, and just get a Serial ATA (SATA) or IDE 2.5 and 3.5 to USB 2.0 Cable Adapters for rescuing data off older drives...

I need something fast, as I can't play with my t400 until I get a backup of the clean system now that I have it just the way I want it.

If you are going to go with the external drive in a case, it seems to be cheaper to buy your own case and hard drive, and assemble it yourself.

I have had three of these cases. http://stores.shop.ebay.com/ZMODO_2-5-H ... ec0Q2em322.
I made best offer of $7.50, and was accepted.

I also have a cable similar to the one you have linked. It is great because it works with any drive.
Paid less than $10.00 on Ebay.

Scott

DeAnna wrote:But then I'd be stuck with buying an IDE drive as the backup drive....

What's wrong with IDE? It's certainly more than sufficient for your needs.

DeAnna wrote:What do you all prefer as an external hard drive? Just ~100-200GB to hold a good system backup and keep regular backups of documents. A packaged USB Hard drive (Like the Passport)

I've been using a Western Digital Passport for several years. I really like it, it's very small, and it has an incredible number of hours on it. Quite fast for what it is, totally silent, very durable as I carry it everyday in my laptop case, and the single USB/Data cable never fails to power it from whatever ThinkPad I have it connected to. I've traveled all over the world with it (literally). I simply cannot say enough good things about the Passport line. In fact I now have three just for convenience. Best of all, they are so popular that you can always find them on sale at newegg.com or other places.

Cheers...

Thanks, Scott - I hadn't thought about ebay.

Fred, I said stuck because it seemed there were fewer IDE drives as options for me to buy as the backup disk. (?) I'm also unlikely to use the T23/41 drives as backup drives, but thought I might want to buy a drive I could put in my T400 if necessary... I dunno...

I'm probably just too tired. No sleep and suffering from 3 weeks of "option-overload," I guess.

archer6 wrote: I've been using a Western Digital Passport for several years. I really like it, it's very small, and it has an incredible number of hours on it. Quite fast for what it is, totally silent, very durable as I carry it everyday in my laptop case, and the single USB/Data cable never fails to power it from whatever ThinkPad I have it connected to. I've traveled all over the world with it (literally). I simply cannot say enough good things about the Passport line. In fact I now have three just for convenience. Best of all, they are so popular that you can always find them on sale at newegg.com or other places.

Cheers...

Thanks, archer. : )

They sure are tempting... and the thought of just grabbing one of those at the store today and being done with it is very appealing right now.

Do you use the software? (I think it's one that comes with backup software, anyway) Encryption?

Just some random thoughts off my head...

- DIY solutions should be cheaper, generally.
- Pre-packaged solutions should be more expensive, generally.
- If there's a problem with a DIY solution, one may have a harder time solving it. There are 2 parties involved.
- If there's a problem with a pre-packaged solution, one sends it to a single vendor for repairs. OTOH, data recovery maybe a problem. It is not be in the warranty and the vendor may just ship you a new one. If you open the case and gets another recovery service, the warranty maybe voided.
- Backup software - ThinkPad comes with RnR and there's Acronis.

Cheers.

There is no price difference between SATA and PATA external enclosures. For the same price, you can get a larger capacity SATA HDD (you can get a 500 GB SATA HDD for around $100). So, the obvious choice is to assemble a SATA external hard drive, with the largest capacity you can afford.

DeAnna wrote:Do you use the software? (I think it's one that comes with backup software, anyway) Encryption?

It came with backup software that I use when backing up the entire disk. However for my daily backups I just drag and drop the one folder I have all my work nested in. I do use the 128-bit encryption software that came with it, to lock it down. When I bought my first Passport years ago there was only one model in a variety of sizes. Now they have several Passport models. Recently when I decided to buy a third I bought the least expensive Passport Essential model. It's the same as the one I have only a bit smaller physically.

It only takes just over two minutes to back my 10GB daily work folder.

Here's a link: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/index.asp?cat=9

Cheers...

lifrancis wrote:There is no price difference between SATA and PATA external enclosures. For the same price, you can get a larger capacity SATA HDD (you can get a 500 GB SATA HDD for around $100). So, the obvious choice is to assemble a SATA external hard drive, with the largest capacity you can afford.

True, SATA drives are larger, but if the OP already has a drive that is sufficient to meet their needs, why buy another?

FredGarvin wrote: True, SATA drives are larger, but if the OP already has a drive that is sufficient to meet their needs, why buy another?

Nobody ever has sufficient storage capacity!

I have two Seagate FreeAgent external drives and two DIY models.

The two DIY models are cheap and work well for my needs. I use them to get data off my old drives.

The Seagate externals are significantly pricier but are definitely worth the extra cost to me. The reason being that one of them (the other is a dedicated backup) is powered up continuously as a networked and shared drive. With the DIY kits, you cannot spin down the HDD--> and the case can get quite warm over extended periods of time. With the Seagate drive and software, I can have the drive spin down after 30 minutes of no activity. This saves power and hopefully extends the life of the drive. It only spins up once or twice a day.

I actually don't have a drive to put into the enclosure to use for backups, yet... I would only put the t23 and t41p drives in long enough to transfer their files to mt new t400.

So if I go the drive in an enclosure route, i need to buy a drive...

I don't want a huge one, really...It feels like putting too many eggs in a single basket... so the price differential between the enclosure w/~200GB hard drive vs something like a passport is insignificant.

The two factors influencing me right now are:

1. The packaged USB hard drive route (like a passport) has more things that can break (it appears, after reading reviews), losing all my data, while the hard drive in an enclosure route means that, unless the drive itself fails, i can just pop it into another enclosure...
(score for going the enclosure route)

2. I'd prefer to get it over with, but I'm too tired (unwell, actually) to go out shopping, and from what I can tell by their sites online, there aren't many enclosures in B/M stores to be found...the few I see (e.g., @ Best Buy) are over-priced.
(score for the passport route)

Bottom line is the enclosure is likely what I'll do - just wish I could send my husband to get it for me and not have to wait for shipping...

virge wrote:I have two Seagate FreeAgent external drives and two DIY models.

The two DIY models are cheap and work well for my needs. I use them to get data off my old drives.

The Seagate externals are significantly pricier but are definitely worth the extra cost to me. The reason being that one of them (the other is a dedicated backup) is powered up continuously as a networked and shared drive. With the DIY kits, you cannot spin down the HDD--> and the case can get quite warm over extended periods of time. With the Seagate drive and software, I can have the drive spin down after 30 minutes of no activity. This saves power and hopefully extends the life of the drive. It only spins up once or twice a day.

Interesting...
Thanks, Virge. I'll go look at those...

DeAnna wrote:What do you all prefer as an external hard drive?

I suggest just buying a "ready to rumble" USB drive right out of the box, rather than mess with the enclosure hassles. Pay a little more, and start using it sooner. The small 2.5 inch drives can be carried in the bag with your laptop and are pretty reliable. They take power from your USB slot.

The larger 3.5 inch drives are big, heavy and require a separate power supply.

Don't mess with any included backup software on the drive; it's usually cheap and overly complex. Use the built in "Robocopy" in Vista, rather than drag from folder to folder, because that is an invitation to a mistake (dragging and dropping it to the wrong folder).

Besides, Vista also has a decent backup utility in addition to Robocopy. Robocopy requires setting up a batch file which is not that hard to do and it can be used over and over. The Robocopy advantage is that is it rocket fast and super reliable.

DeAnna wrote:The packaged USB hard drive route (like a passport) has more things that can break (it appears, after reading reviews), losing all my data

I too read some reports like this when I was researching drives. However I really think this is a rare situation. Or perhaps just sour grapes, or someone with an ax to grind? There is nothing complex about their hard drive in an enclosure with one usb data cable.

The reason I say this is that in my company their are at least 50 people I know personally that have Passports, and to date after several years, not one of us has had a failure. It should also be noted that some of my employees are not easy on their gear, and the shock resistance of this drive has been proven by some of my road warriors. Now while this is not a scientific study it does bode well for their reliability. I don't work for Western Digital, nor do I sell their products, I'm simply a very satisfied user.

Cheers...

Well, there ya have it. Whew. I'm convinced and relieved.

I'll get a Seagate FreeAgent or a WD Passport tonight. They both look great. And mgo, thanks to your leads here and in the other thread, I'll definitely be using the Vista backup utilities.

Thanks to all of you for such helpful advice!

OK, Best Buy had a sale on the Seagate FreeAgent Go, so I got the 320GB one. : )


Is it a good idea to partition these things?

I want to keep a whole image or two of my current Vista partition on it, so I can do a complete restore if necessary, and it feels strange to have it lumped in there as just another folder... (The others will be for regular backups of documents/databases... My husband's music. ) What if I also want to back up my linux partition to it?

Are folders enough?

DeAnna wrote:OK, Best Buy had a sale on the Seagate FreeAgent Go, so I got the 320GB one. : )


Is it a good idea to partition these things?

I want to keep a whole image or two of my current Vista partition on it, so I can do a complete restore if necessary, and it feels strange to have it lumped in there as just another folder... (The others will be for regular backups of documents/databases... My husband's music. ) What if I also want to back up my linux partition to it?

Are folders enough?

I have my external HDD partitioned, so that I have just enough space for two backups in two partitions, and then I have the rest for entertainment and school related uses.
I wouldn't recommend formating your drive into anything besides FAT32 or NTFS (if you are planning to make a backup image). But I am pretty sure that linux (at least slackware) can be backed up on an NTFS drive.

DeAnna wrote:OK, Best Buy had a sale on the Seagate FreeAgent Go, so I got the 320GB one. : ) Is it a good idea to partition these things?

Excellent, yes partitioning is certainly the way to go. I would create two or three depending on the size of the drive. Since it’s easiest to create them before you use the drive.

I use four partitions myself. For example, I have a 500GB Passport drive.
My partitions are:
1) 200GB for complete image of my Main hard drive
2) 200GB for complete image of my UltraBay hard drive
3) 80GB for work files
4) 10GB for files / apps that I want to test (quarantine)

If you're multi-booting with Windows, you may want to create a FAT partition to transfer files between it and Linux. Linux Kernels prior to 2.2.0 aren't too good at NTFS and Windows is useless at anything Linux. FAT is one common ground. Linux Kernel versions 2.2.0 and later include the ability to read NTFS partitions. Thus you have the ability to work with NTFS if your Linux distro is based on a Kernel 2.2.0 or higher. Most newer Linux distros are.

Cheers...

DeAnna wrote:OK, Best Buy had a sale on the Seagate FreeAgent Go, so I got the 320GB one. : )
Is it a good idea to partition these things?
I want to keep a whole image or two of my current Vista partition on it, so I can do a complete restore if necessary, and it feels strange to have it lumped in there as just another folder... (The others will be for regular backups of documents/databases... My husband's music. ) What if I also want to back up my linux partition to it?
Are folders enough?

Generally, using folders instead of multiple partitions is much more efficient. For example if your husband's music suddenly jumps to 4 gig and his music backup partition is only 3 gig, you are out of space already. If his music is on a backup folder within the 300gig drive it can expand as needed with no input from you.

Your Windows drive C: images can also be placed within one folder.

The secret here is to make sure your folders are clearly and descriptively labeled so you can remember what the heck is in them months later. For example, not "hubby pics", but "husband pictures from his canon camera June 2009"

Your Linux partition can be backed up depending on the backup program you are using. The native Windows backup will probably not recognize it, unless you place it within a folder first.

Also remember, the Windows backup program will not allow you to deselect folders, it will insist on backing everything up in a big blob, and if you have 100 or 200 gig of data, that a biggie file.

Because of this short coming, sometimes a 3rd party backup is much more useful.

And, if you just want to back up your data, and not your operating system, then use the built in Robocopy, or the freeware Syncback. Both beat the pants off the Windows backup.

Thanks so much, guys. : )

As an update, and for the possible benefit of others, here's my report about how things went. Bottom line: It had its glitches, but turned out very well.

The glitches were due to Vista's handling of external USB drives, which requires some tweaking, and IMO, is still a little iffy.

To wit: selecting "Safely Remove Hardware" in Vista often reports that it cannot... the disk is in use, even when there is no apparent reason. Many people shut down to remove them at that point, but I'll note that I simply put the laptop in standby. The lights went out then, and the disk stopped spinning, so I felt safe in unplugging it.

To "fix" the problem, after googling, I took these steps:
- Disabled indexing on drives other than C. (On C too, if you choose.)
- Told the recycle bin not to monitor that drive
- Tried to tell disk management to "optimize for safe removal." (This only worked through the advanced properties dialog under my admin account, and seems to revert to "optimize for high performance" in the main dialog.)

From my T41p (XPpro) (on which "Safely Remove" was working fine as- is), I deleted the pre-installed software from the freeagent drive. (The pre-installed version isn't compatible with Vista 64 anyway. You have to download the 64-bit compatible version from Seagate's site.)

After I took these steps, I was able to get an "It's safe to remove the hardware" response on the T400, *As long as I only log in as either admin or as standard user while it's plugged in. Once I switch users, even if I log out of one, it won't safely remove; I get the "in use by process ID 4" in the event viewer. Go figure.

Note: the lights of the freeagent drive still do not turn off like they do when you go to Standby, or like they do when I select "safely remove" from my T41P. Googling, I read here, and in a couple other places, that that is a new "feature" in Vista, which we shouldn't worry about.

OK... but I'm a little skeptical, because I also tested it on my 2GB Cruzer flash drive.... it said I could safely remove it, even though the light on it stayed on... but when I next plugged it into my T41p, the Sandisk said that it had not been safely removed the last time.

So, FWIW: according to MS, we can ignore the lights, as long as windows says an external disk is safe to remove. But the software in the Cruzer didn't think so. Who knows.


Moving on from there:

- I didn't bother installing any of the software Seagate provides.
- I also chose not to partition the disk at this time. Vista has a built-in resizing utility, so it can always be done later.

To backup, I just went to the Vista Backup dialog from the start button, selected the Complete PC Backup, and it took it from there. Easy-breezy, and it only took 24 minutes to backup all three partitions.
The total size of the three partitions, and what Vista said it might need room for, was ~60 GB, but the size of the backup file was only 38GB.

Anyway, hope that helps anyone looking for answers in the future. : )

archer6 wrote: It only takes just over two minutes to back my 10GB daily work folder.

hmm....that's interesting.

Everything I've seen for external USB drives maxes out around 25-27mb/sec, and even that only when the computer, drive, software, and file-arrangement involved, aren't restricting it all from running at a sustained high rate.

That equates to about 1,500 mb/minute.....or about 3gb in 2 minutes.

I'm curious, and excited, to learn how you're getting 3 times that, i.e. 5gb/minute, through your USB port Archer.

If I could make my system do that too, it'd be wonderful.

thanks!

Richard