Thinkpads Forum

I'm going to be a "used thinkpad" owner. But I can't decide what model to use. I have a small plan to be able to upgrade with an Intel X25 and therefor I would like to know what models that have a SATA connector. Onyone know where to find this information.

Yes I have seen some discussions about the T43 and R52 models and as far as I understand they have a SATA controller but not a SATA connector, making it far more difficult. Is that correct.

And at last. Is upgrading to an IBM X25 a good idea?

The most comprehensive place to look is probably the Hardware Specification section of thinkwiki.org:

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Hardware_Specifications

Since you mentioned the T and the R series, in short, all models after (and including) T60 and R60 use SATA hard drives.

Is upgrading to the INTEL X25 a good idea? Personally I think the answer is definitely yes if cost is not an issue. Over here in the US there has been a shortage of the second generation of X25 drives and retailers have raised prices accordingly. I was going to order one, but only to find that it would cost upwards of $350 for the 80GB model (as supposed to the manufacturer's suggested retail price of $229.99). Prices will definitely come back down, but I got impatient and decided to get the OCZ Vertex 60GB when I found a deal for about $160. Windows XP boot time has been more than halved and most applications launch almost instantaneously. Overall it has tremendously improved the performance of my T60, not to mention the absolute silence I enjoy with the help of tpfancontrol. According to various reviews, for instance this one on Anandtech.com:

http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631

the Intel X25 is even better still.

Just a word of caution though: all of the earlier ThinkPads with SATA connector is limited to SATA I speed. So in particular, sequential read speed is limited to just over 100MB/s, as supposed to over 200MB/s when used, say, in a desktop with SATA II capability.

pade wrote:Yes I have seen some discussions about the T43 and R52 models and as far as I understand they have a SATA controller but not a SATA connector, making it far more difficult. Is that correct.

Yes, that's correct. Internally, the chipset of these laptops has a SATA controller but they use PATA hard drives connected using a SATA<->PATA bridge. Since both the chipset and the bridge are on the motherboard, there's no way to skip the bridge.

As georgelam said, starting from T60/R60, the internal hard drive bay has a SATA connector.

What's interesting about the T6x models is that they still use a SATA<->PATA bridge for the UltraBay so for example the optical drives used in these ThinkPads are PATA drives. According to Lenovo, this bridge is a reason why these models don't support SATA-II (300MB/s).

It gets interesting if you get a SATA UltraBay HDD caddy to install a second SATA hard drive in T6x. Since the caddy has to use a PATA connection, it has a PATA<->SATA bridge built in to convert the signals. This means the signals are converted two times between the chipset and the drive:
chipset<-SATA->internal_bridge<-PATA->caddy_bridge<-SATA->HDD


Starting with post T61 models (T400/T500, the current ones), both internal drive and UltraBay drives are SATA and there are no bridges involved. SATA-II speeds are supported.

Models affected:

ThinkPad T43, T43p
ThinkPad R52
ThinkPad X41, X41 Tablet

Quoted from http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... hard_disks

If you're going to get the Intel SSD, you should at least get newer than the 60/61 series of laptops. They say they support SATA2, but it's really SATA1. You'll want at least SATA2 if you're going to spend the money for the Intel SSD.

Ok, Thank's a lot folks...

Looks like I will have to use at least a T60/R60 to be able to connect a SATA drive (not using a PATA-SATA HDD caddy).
To get a SATA-II interface I need to use a model later than T61 (T400/T500)

I guess that using a SATA HDD caddy would speed up the computer anyway due to the low SSD seek time but I will not be able to utilize NCQ or duplex until I pay for a T400/T500. And a T400/T500 will also give me full SATA-II speed as well. But I will not first pay $1500 to get a T400 and then $300 to get a SSD. And still I have a low resolution LAPTOP

So I will try to get a R60 for $200 and an X25 SSD for $300. Is that a good solution or...

Has anyone any experience on using an Intel X25 in a T43/R52 with SATA HDD caddy

As Yak stated, SATA II speed is supported on T61's...has an ICH8M-Enhanced I/O Controller Hub, which supports SATA II, SATA 3gb. So no, you do not have to buy a T400 to get SATA II.

Harryc wrote:As Yak stated, SATA II speed is supported on T61's...has an ICH8M-Enhanced I/O Controller Hub, which supports SATA II, SATA 3gb. So no, you do not have to buy a T400 to get SATA II.

Actually I said "post T61" so I meant T400. I was under the impression that due to the SATA<->PATA bridge used in T61 for the UltraBay, the whole system (including the internal SATA hard drive) had to be limited to SATA-I speeds. There is a very long thread here about it even quoting some Lenovo statement on the matter.

@Yak, thanks for the reminder, I recall that fiasco after having read the linked thread.

FYI, the Z60t & Z60m we're the first TPs with SATA controllers (SATA I, of course).

They were also the only SATA ThinkPads without Core Duo CPUs. They had Pentium M CPUs.

They are nice machines, but at this point, not much less expensive than Core Duo R60/T60/Z61t/Z61m models (all SATA I models).

An R61e would probably be the most inexpensive model with SATA II.