Thinkpads Forum

I got the keyboard today and couldn't resist opening it

So, I took the liberty of taking a few pictures...
http://picasaweb.google.com/arkadiusz.w ... TrackPoint#

The keyboard itself most probably comes straight from T400s. Even the power button and its light is there. And the button is connected too as I was able to wake my T60 from standby using it. Still, it doesn't do much besides that. You can NOT power the laptop on with it of course.

A small board is attached to the keyboard's bottom with a controller chip by LITEON.

PS: The keyboard itself is pretty good (could be stiffer), besides one problem with scrolling in Firefox that I could work around, everything seems to work. I read somewhere that with older ThinkPads, some Fn keys don't work but everything seems to work with my T60 (except the mic-mute button). The mute button lights up and stays in sync with the T60 keyboard (if I press mute on the laptop, the key lights up too). Same with CapsLock. There's no ThinkLight sign on the PageUp key and it doesn't work either, as expected.

I'm surprised they didn't put an NMB keyboard in there, but rather a cheap Chicony!

RealBlackStuff wrote:I'm surprised they didn't put an NMB keyboard in there, but rather a cheap Chicony!

The way you put it sounds like Chicony was utter cr**. My T60 has a Chicony and my brother's T60 has NMB. NMB may be a bit nicer but Chicony is still a great keyboard.

I <3 <3 <3 my Chicony.

Why?!

I have 3 T400 keyboards and out of them all I love the sound the Chicony buttons make and I also like the texture of the vol, mute, and Thinkvantage buttons on it.

My NMB and original T400 keyboard have hard plasticky VMT (vol,mute, and thinkvantage) keys. I feel that hard and plasticky kinda made it feel like they got the buttons from a toy store. That's just my $0.02.

I find that some NMBs are better than others. T23 NMB is only a bit better than Chicony to me, and not fantastic. X41t is better, though I haven't verified it's a NMB yet, I can tell from the feel. T42 better still, about as good as my first, 770e.

I <3 <3 <3 my Chicony.

I'd love to trade a good condition Chicony T60 (fits in T400?) for your NMB, even if it's very used!

I even have a brand new Chicony, from inside the USB keyboard, I'd give for NMB, if the traded KBs would work. Note in the pic that the USB KB has a big key replacing the Insert and Delete keys. If you were interested, I guess I could try swapping my own KBs and seeing if they both worked.

eyestrain wrote: I'd love to trade a good condition Chicony T60 (fits in T400?) for your NMB, even if it's very used!

I even have a brand new Chicony, from inside the USB keyboard, I'd give for NMB, if the traded KBs would work. Note in the pic that the USB KB has a big key replacing the Insert and Delete keys. If you were interested, I guess I could try swapping my own KBs and seeing if they both worked.

The keyboard from that USB keyboard is totally different from what I have in my T400. I'm sorry. Judging from that picture it seems that the type of keyboard you would need is one that is specifically one made for that model of USB keyboard. I wouldn't know if they made an NMB for it either. Sorry.

I just did some research and the USB keyboard indeed seems to use a T400s keyboard so swapping it for an NMB should be doable.

Here's my picture showing the back of the keyboard built into my USB keyboard:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-b ... directlink

I found this set of pictures showing the insides of a T400s:
http://www.thinkpads.com/2009/07/10/thi ... upgrading/

Specifically interesting is the photo showing the back of a T400s keyboard:
http://www.thinkpads.com/wp-content/gal ... d-back.jpg

The only difference seems to be the lack of the bottom screw thread but take a look at this picture of the USB keybord base:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/E1 ... directlink

The deeper spot in the center seems to be there exactly for the purpose of accommodating the screw thread.

The circuit board is screwed to the keyboard using the thread of the other screw. This thread can't be seen in my photos but I have unscrewed the board and it's exactly the same as seen in T400s keyboard.

The black patch is glued to the keyboard using some double-sided adhesive tape. The tape is only around the patch, not on it's entire surface.

The volume/ThinkVantage/power buttons cover on a T400s keyboard most certainly is removable as it always was on previous generations keyboards.

The only other difference I spotted now is the ThinkLight icon on the page up key of T400s keyboard. The USB keyboard doesn't have that and Fn+PgUp doesn't do anything.

emeraldgirl08 wrote:The keyboard from that USB keyboard is totally different from what I have in my T400. I'm sorry. Judging from that picture it seems that the type of keyboard you would need is one that is specifically one made for that model of USB keyboard. I wouldn't know if they made an NMB for it either. Sorry.

T400s, not T400. These are totally different machines.

-- ADDED --

After using the keyboard for a couple of days I can say I like it but it's not very stiff. The T400s keyboard has these holes on the underside which are compensated in an actual T400s by rigidness of the laptop. Here we just have a plastic base that flexes.

Fortunately I was able to fix this by reinforcing the base with a couple of metal rods.
Next time I have it open I'll take a picture.

yak wrote:T400s, not T400.

I missed that, thought you meant T400's.

So, I can swap my USB's KB for an NMB from a T400s... probably not likely anytime soon. If I ever experiment trying to fit a different model KB in there, I'll post about it.

And maybe someday get an NMB KB for my T60, which I think could also come from R60, T400, and some other models.

I should have paid attention to photo 8, and the scale!

Took apart to try a T42/R51 KB in it, but the connector here is too small for the old KB.

Very similar connector, shrunk quite a bit.

Here's the numbers off the KB inside my USB kb:
made in china, 852-01208-? model c989
c9l-us
Square sticker: 141115-001 A 8189

The ? is covered by a sticker.

If you are more interested in how the Lenovo Thinkpad USB with Trackpoint keyboard looks inside you can always check out my pictures at Picasa. I took one apart totally when I made a keyboard mod were I mounted a Lenovo trackpoint in a Cherry keyboard.
Link: http://picasaweb.google.se/k.peter.matt ... Trackpoint#

zmurf wrote:If you are more interested in how the Lenovo Thinkpad USB with Trackpoint keyboard looks inside you can always check out my pictures at Picasa. I took one apart totally when I made a keyboard mod were I mounted a Lenovo trackpoint in a Cherry keyboard.
Link: http://picasaweb.google.se/k.peter.matt ... Trackpoint#

Wow! What a hybrid mashup Do you think I could convert a Thinkpad USB beyboard into a Bluetooth one... using the BT circuits from a bt keyboard (theoretically)? I'll look at some cheap BTs (have one) that can be hacked open...

crashnburn wrote: Wow! What a hybrid mashup Do you think I could convert a Thinkpad USB beyboard into a Bluetooth one... using the BT circuits from a bt keyboard (theoretically)? I'll look at some cheap BTs (have one) that can be hacked open...

I would guess that the easiest way to convert a Lenovo Thinkpad USB keyboard to be wireless would be to take apart one of these (http://www.iogear.com/product/GUWH104KIT/), build it into the Lenovo keyboard and drive it with a small battery pack (would guess that the hub would need something like 9V or so... and the keyboard will be driven by the USB hub). It doesn't use bluetooth.. but at least it will be wireless though.

this is the solution I would have done...

I just managed to stiffen the keyboard even more by removing the screw holding the interface board and making a hole in the bottom of the housing. I had to find a longer screw but it helped a lot! Now the keyboard is mounted much more like in an actual ThinkPad -- the edges are kept down by the bezel and the center is screwed to the bottom.

eyestrain wrote:Took apart to try a T42/R51 KB in it, but the connector here is too small for the old KB.

Very similar connector, shrunk quite a bit.

I tried my spare X200 keyboard with the USB interface from the external keyboard. The connectors are the same and everything worked. I'm not sure which models have the smaller connector but it's probably safe to assume they all should work. This lets you basically turn any such ThinkPad keyboard into an external one. If you can find a case for it that is.

I just replaced the keyboard with a new one for T400s (compatible with T410/s, T510 and the new -20 models).

It's almost a straight drop-in, one only has to remove the bezel covering the volume buttons on the new keyboard and then remove the power button from underneath it. The bezel is not needed as the keyboard housing covers this area. After that the keyboard fits perfectly.

However, at least here in Germany, there isn't much difference in price between a T400s keyboard and a whole new external USB keyboard (bare KB is about 10€ cheaper) so this isn't a cheap way to get rid of shiny keys.

Of course the interface board stayed the same so key presses still are missed if typing very fast. I don't write that fast so this doesn't bother me.

I was disappointed when I found out that the TrackPoint scrolling on the external keyboard doesn't work with Firefox 4. Luckily there has been a driver update that fixes this problem:

Version: 1.07
Release Date: 2011/04/20
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... 73235.html

Might be important news for some.

How do you remove the palm-rest/bezel from the USB keyboard? I removed the screws on the bottom and all the keys, but it seems stuck... is there a clip somewhere inside that you need to disengage?

Didn't see a response to the previous question about disassembly. Poured water over my keyboard last night and now it's dead. Tried to open it up and take a looksee but removing the screws was definitely not enough. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Figured it out: pull harder. The sides and back are snapped in. Nothing visually wrong inside, but no power at all when plugged in. No mouse, no keys, no lights. Any ideas??? Did I kill it?

you probably DID kill it..
but before burial i would make sure all the water is gone and then clean it with denatured alcohol.. which should chase any remaining water out.. and then evaporate..

from my limited experience with liquids and keyboards, the water infiltrates the sandwiched layers of plastic and printed wiring contacts..
assuming your trackpoint keyboard is built like that..

when these things happen it is best to immediately remove power and turn whatever it is, over.. so the liquid will drain out.. then do the cleaning as above..

good luck and welcome to the forum..

SK-8855

Sorry to bump, adding search words above since I couldn't easily find this thread. USB Keyboard too many hits!

Since we are inside this Keyboard and they are becoming harder to come by.. How does one repair and maintain them?

Over last few months I've had various KEY / BOARD issues:

- '9' was un typeable for a month or two
- Then PrtSc started "sticky" - i.e. As soon as I connect it to my Thinkpad, it would make CPU 100% - I'd use a portable app: Aquakeytest.exe to decipher it is PrtSc, then keep pressing and playing keys around PrtSc on X61T and USB Keyboard in attempts to get the Interrupt/ Circuit to UNSTICK.
- Recent in last week, I've got wierd thing - My main CLICK stops working - "Left Click" and "Double Tap" click both stop to work AND it goes into a "Sticky Select" mode - the kind where you "Click & Drag" to select an entire section of text.

So, any words / experiences/ ideas on the same would be very welcome.

crashnburn wrote:Since we are inside this Keyboard and they are becoming harder to come by.. How does one repair and maintain them?

Over last few months I've had various KEY / BOARD issues:

- '9' was un typeable for a month or two
- Then PrtSc started "sticky" - i.e. As soon as I connect it to my Thinkpad, it would make CPU 100% - I'd use a portable app: Aquakeytest.exe to decipher it is PrtSc, then keep pressing and playing keys around PrtSc on X61T and USB Keyboard in attempts to get the Interrupt/ Circuit to UNSTICK.
- Recent in last week, I've got wierd thing - My main CLICK stops working - "Left Click" and "Double Tap" click both stop to work AND it goes into a "Sticky Select" mode - the kind where you "Click & Drag" to select an entire section of text.

So, any words / experiences/ ideas on the same would be very welcome.

Since these are membrane-based switches, you will need to clean the contacts on the membrane and inside the rubber dome with isopropyl alcohol. That will fix any mispresses, double triggering, stuck key presses, unusable keys etc.

Same goes for the trackpoint buttons (which if they're like most trackpoint buttons you'll be able to take out the dome and clean it with ease). If they're like the ALPS trackpoint buttons, the dome will have to be cut off, cleaned and glued back in place. But that was an ALPSism (and as a result ALPS trackpoint buttons are the most tactile).

micrex22 wrote:

crashnburn wrote:Since we are inside this Keyboard and they are becoming harder to come by.. How does one repair and maintain them?

Over last few months I've had various KEY / BOARD issues:

- '9' was un typeable for a month or two
- Then PrtSc started "sticky" - i.e. As soon as I connect it to my Thinkpad, it would make CPU 100% - I'd use a portable app: Aquakeytest.exe to decipher it is PrtSc, then keep pressing and playing keys around PrtSc on X61T and USB Keyboard in attempts to get the Interrupt/ Circuit to UNSTICK.
- Recent in last week, I've got wierd thing - My main CLICK stops working - "Left Click" and "Double Tap" click both stop to work AND it goes into a "Sticky Select" mode - the kind where you "Click & Drag" to select an entire section of text.

So, any words / experiences/ ideas on the same would be very welcome.

Since these are membrane-based switches, you will need to clean the contacts on the membrane and inside the rubber dome with isopropyl alcohol. That will fix any mispresses, double triggering, stuck key presses, unusable keys etc.

Same goes for the trackpoint buttons (which if they're like most trackpoint buttons you'll be able to take out the dome and clean it with ease). If they're like the ALPS trackpoint buttons, the dome will have to be cut off, cleaned and glued back in place. But that was an ALPSism (and as a result ALPS trackpoint buttons are the most tactile).

Thank you. Will do this. Any good How To video I can refer to?