T21 RESTART takes forever!

[Ogg]

I am helping a friend with a T21. The machine operates quite well, generally. No complaints. But recently, I wanted to just reboot the machine with a Restart .vs. a Shutdown/Boot. The screen would blank, and then the pc would just seem to go dormant. Not a sign of life. Freeked me out! Even the power button seemed to have no effect. I couldn't turn the unit off! The T21 was docked at the time, but turning the external power off made no difference. C-A-D made no difference. The T21 just sat there, unresponsive with no sign of ANY activity. It was already more than 3 minutes! ..and I was getting worried. But then I heard the little noise that sounded like the cd-drive was being accessed, then a few second later the hdd light flickered, then nothing, then it flickered some more, and then it started flickered more and more until the unit resembled the processes of a Boot. It finally booted! But this was well over 5 minutes by then! QUESTION: What caused this Restart to take so long? I fear this is unacceptible. Infact.. this actually happend once before, after installing a few MS WinXP updates from the website and responding to the "Do you want to restart your computer now?". I remember selecting YES. Then the Restart behaved exactly like above. When I wasn't getting any indication of "life" from the T21, I thought the updates screwed up the laptop. Anyway.. I learned that it is best to avoid doing a Restart, but this might not be an obvious choice for my friend at a future date. Is there anything that can be investigated/fixed so that Restart operates normally? I am very concerned that Restart behaves like the T21 is killed.

[egibbs]

When Windows says "You need to restart your computer now" it is because it needs to make changes to files which are locked when the OS is loaded. It builds a task list and then when you shut it down (or during the reboot) it performs all the things it couldn't do while you were logged in.

If there are a lot of actions pending (i.e. if he installed SP2 but never rebooted afterward) it can take quite a long time. Also if he's installed lots of small patches but never rebooted after each the task list can grow large.

Note that the patches are not really fully applied until the reboot. So not restarting is a bad idea, and will just make the restarting process take longer when you finally do it.

It's also probably a safe bet that his disk is fragmented pretty bad. Run the Windows defragmenter (right clik on My Computer, select Manage, and look under Storage in the left pane of the console. It may take several passes to thoroughly defrag a disk that has been neglected.

Make sure he is not trying to connect to any network resources that aren't present - Windows remembers if he ever mapped a network drive or pirnter, and if they aren't there it takes time for Windows to give up trying to get to them.

Of course check for spyware, adware, trojans, virii, etc. If this is a typical home user PC it's probably loaded with them and they all take time to load.

Other than that there a lot of tuning tricks to speed up boot. Running MSConfig and turning off all unneeded services and startup items is a start (be careful). There is a MS tool called BootViz that helps to fine tune the booting process - adjusting the order that things load in, etc.

Ed Gibbs

[Leon]

Thanks Ed... the most comprehensive answer for "slow restart" that I've seen!

[Ogg]

If there are a lot of actions pending (i.e. if he installed SP2 but never rebooted afterward) it can take quite a long time. Also if he's installed lots of small patches but never rebooted after each the task list can grow large.

No SP2 patches. Nothing like that on this T21. Even after a full-reboot, the NEXT "Restart" is slow as molasses and gives the impression that the laptop is unresponsive.

It's also probably a safe bet that his disk is fragmented pretty bad. Run the Windows defragmenter (right clik on My Computer, select Manage, and look under Storage in the left pane of the console. It may take several passes to thoroughly defrag a disk that has been neglected.

No degrag problem. The regular bootup is fast and quick.

Make sure he is not trying to connect to any network resources that aren't present - Windows remembers if he ever mapped a network drive or pirnter, and if they aren't there it takes time for Windows to give up trying to get to them.

Now.. THIS might be an issue. The T21 has a USB2 PC Card. The printer is connected to that. Maybe ALL USB devices should be removed before doing a restart? I'm just afraid to try a Restart!. If anyone else was monitoring the Restart, I am sure they would freak out too when more than 5 minutes elapses before there is a sign of any activity on the laptop.

Of course check for spyware, adware, trojans, virii, etc. If this is a typical home user PC it's probably loaded with them and they all take time to load.

None of those. Like I said.. the regular bootup is fast and responsive. I recently added another 128meg ram and the bootup is even faster.

[egibbs]

I guess I'm confused - is it the shutdown part of the restart that is taking forever? It sounds like that is what you are saying when you say "the regular bootup is fast and responsive."

Some AV software (Norton, in particular that I know of) insists on scanning any bootable removable devices that are hooked up at shutdown. Try disconnecting everything and removing any disks from the floppy or CD drives before doing the restart.

You may also have a process running that is taking a long time to terminate. Shut down everything in the system tray and kill as many running process as possible (there used to be a tool called stopitall or something similar that did that for you - not sure if it's still around).

Why would you have a slow device like a printer on a USB2 card? USB 1.1 should still be way faster than the printer needs.

Is the machine on a network? It may be having a hard time closing some of the network connections.

Ed Gibbs

[egibbs]

I guess I'm confused - is it the shutdown part of the restart that is taking forever? It sounds like that is what you are saying when you say "the regular bootup is fast and responsive."

Some AV software (Norton, in particular that I know of) insists on scanning any bootable removable devices that are hooked up at shutdown. Try disconnecting everything and removing any disks from the floppy or CD drives before doing the restart.

You may also have a process running that is taking a long time to terminate. Shut down everything in the system tray and kill as many running process as possible (there used to be a tool called stopitall or something similar that did that for you - not sure if it's still around).

Why would you have a slow device like a printer on a USB2 card? USB 1.1 should still be way faster than the printer needs.

Is the machine on a network? It may be having a hard time closing some of the network connections.

Ed Gibbs

[Ogg]

Hello Ed!

I guess I'm confused - is it the shutdown part of the restart that is taking forever? It sounds like that is what you are saying when you say "the regular bootup is fast and responsive."

Well it is hard to tell if it's the shudown part or the part on its way back. Let me try to clarify... A regular SHUTDOWN works well and fast; the pc powers down on its own. But a RESTART causes the pc to appear to stall for an incredibly long time. No other bottons are responsive. I can't even turn off the laptop if I suddenly changed my mind about aborting the Restart like I can on a desktop computer. (On a desktop...if you turn off the power at ANY TIME, the computer is forced OFF and that's all there is to it.) But in RESTART, the laptop just sits there, blank screen, I can hear the hdd continue to spin, (no other access activity though) and no keys are responsive, and the power button doesn't seem to "kick start" the laptop back to life either.

Some AV software (Norton, in particular that I know of) insists on scanning any bootable removable devices that are hooked up at shutdown. Try disconnecting everything and removing any disks from the floppy or CD drives before doing the restart.

Hmmm ... good point. But I don't believe I had any CDs in the drive.

You may also have a process running that is taking a long time to terminate. Shut down everything in the system tray and kill as many running process as possible (there used to be a tool called stopitall or something similar that did that for you - not sure if it's still around).

But that doesn't explain why a regular SHUTDOWN is swift, even with all the normal process loaded in memory.

Why would you have a slow device like a printer on a USB2 card? USB 1.1 should still be way faster than the printer needs.

Good observation.. but for some reason we could NOT get the Lexmark printer/scanner to work properly when it was installed using the USB 1.1 port. I agree.. it's a shame to waste a USB 2 port for a printer. But it was the only way to get this particular printer to work. I assure you, we tried reinstalling the printer on the USB 1.1.. no installation errors, very smooth operation. But when it came to printing.. we kept getting a spooler error and erratic and freaky behaviour of the printer! Scanning seemed to work flawlessly though. But I installed a 4-port USB card, re-did the printer install, and the printer has operated smoothly eversince. The person uses the USB 1.1 port from the laptop/Replicator II with a cable that she can connect to a small digital camera or a flash memory device.

Is the machine on a network? It may be having a hard time closing some of the network connections.

Again.. how would that explain the quick fast normal SHUTDOWN? The laptop is connected with ethernet to a DSL modem. But we "disconnect" from that before doing any SHUTDOWN too.

Any other ideas?

[egibbs]

I don't know what is going on but I agree it's weird.

Just a couple more thoughts and then I'm out of ideas...

Get into the BIOS and make sure he doesn't have full diagnostic POST mode enabled - make sure it is set for quick POST. But that shoudl slow it down on a normal boot as well.

Since this is a weird problem, and you have known weirdness with the USB printer only wanting to work on the 2.0 card... Well weird goes to weird. You said it has a scanner too - so I'm assuming it's a combo machine, maybe one o those HP PSCs. I've got one of those and the driver is HUGE and buggy. So let's try pulling the card (stop it first if you can) then completely uninstalling the driver for the printer/scanner and the driver for the card if it has one. Now try a restart. Any change?

Ed Gibbs

[Ogg]

Get into the BIOS and make sure he doesn't have full diagnostic POST mode enabled - make sure it is set for quick POST. But that shoudl slow it down on a normal boot as well.

Excellent suggestion. I would never have thought of that. Infact.. I don't think that my friend ever explored the BIOS settings. I'll have to get back to you on this later.

You said it has a scanner too - so I'm assuming it's a combo machine, maybe one o those HP PSCs. I've got one of those and the driver is HUGE and buggy. So let's try pulling the card (stop it first if you can) then completely uninstalling the driver for the printer/scanner and the driver for the card if it has one. Now try a restart. Any change?

The printer is a Lexmark 74 combo. I'm really afraid to try another Restart. For now, my friend is well "trained" to always do a proper Shutown. Never does a Restart. For the most part, the T21 seems to operate rather reliably, so there had never been a need to do a Restart other than the two times I did it. One thing that you might find interesting.... one time my friend called me to report that the system seemed unresponsive. The mouse could still be moved around, but nothing could be clicked or selected. So... I suggested a Ctr-Alt-Del. THAT went rather well and normal.

Thanks for your suggestions. I will be sure to followup in this thread when I review the POST suggestion.

..Ogg