Can Windows 95 be installed on a T42, and if so, how?

[Johan]

As indicated by the thread title I am wondering if Windows 95 can possibly be installed on a T42/p, and if so, how this is done? According to Detailed specifications - ThinkPad T42, T42p the T42/p's will not (officially!) support Windows 95, but on the other side at the page Drivers and software - ThinkPad T42, T42p several Windows 95-compatible drivers for T42/p's are mentioned. What to conculde from this? I have Google'd around a good bit to find the answer to the question asked in this thread, but with no success... so I hope someone "ol' timer" will perhaps chime in on this...

The reason for asking is that I wish to set up a backup-laptop for an old IBM 755CE that I have and use from time to time; this 755CE is running Windows 95 and there's one specific program on it that I haven't managed to get to run on later Windows versions... so rather than messing more with this, I simply wish to configure an old spare-T42p with Windows 95 (if possibly!), and then install the specific program from the 755CE on the T42p. Then, I will be able to happily celebrate Christmas!

Thanks in advance for any hints in relation to whether is IS possible (or not?) to install Windows 95 on a T42/p, and if so, how this is done?

PS: I didn't quite know if this should be posted in this, the T4x, conference or in the "Windows OS (Versions prior to Windows 7)" conference... so I posed it here. Should I move this thread?

Johan

[Neil]

Well...I'm certainly an "ol' timer" who has installed Win95 several times, but never on hardware as new as a T42. Still I suppose it can be done, but I have a few questions first.

Have you tried running this old app in Win98SE? You can install Win98 from a CD, unlike 95 (don't think there was a bootable Win95 disk).
How about installing Win95 in a VM? That might be easier.

Anyway, here's the procedure:
1) Boot from a floppy to prepare the HDD (Win98 floppy is best). If you don't have a floppy drive, it might be possible to boot a CD image of the Win98 floppy (I've never done it as I have a floppy drive). Make a partition, format it to FAT32, and copy the system files from the floppy to make the drive bootable.

2) Make a directory to copy the installation files to on the HDD.

3) Boot from the HDD and and navigate to the directory containing the installation files and run "setup".

A little more detail on the subject can be found here: http://www.nickh.org/computer/instlwin9x.html

[rkawakami]

<snip>...there's one specific program on it that I haven't managed to get to run on later Windows versions...

Just to be clear, have you tried to use the Compatibility Mode under Windows XP? And exactly what is happening with the program when you try to run it?

[Raceboy]

You can run W95 from the CD as well (I have original W95 OSR2 CD which is bootable).

It is possible to install, but you may have few drivers missing. Though w98 drivers mostly work.

[Johan]

UPDATE:

... about my attempts to get Windows 95 installed and running on a T42.

Through the exceptionally friendliness of a fantastic fine fabulous forum fellow I am from today in possession of both a Windows 95 (OSR2) install-CD, and a Windows 98 (SE) install-CD... this forum simply ROCKS!!

Unfortunately, neither of these CD's are bootable, so in order to install Windows 95 on the T42, what I did was to boot from a DOS on the mini-XP on Hirens boot-CD (the direct download-link to the most recent version, ver. 15.2, is here - see the green field, a bit down on the page; the download-link is "Hirens.BootCD.15.2.zip"). From the DOS shell, it was/is possible to access the Windows 95 setup-CD, now in the T42, but upon launching the Windows95-install "Setup.exe" I received the following error:

Code: Select all

ScanDisk cannot read from the last cluster on drive C. This cluster is either damaged, or your system is not configured properly. Drive C may need to have Logical Block Addressing (LBA) enabled to work properly, or its disk partition may be incorrectly marked as a non-LBA partition. Data loss can occur if your LBA setting or disk partition type for this drive is misconfigured.

Check your computer's BIOS setup utility, or contact your computer manufacturer, or have your computer checked by a qualified computer hardware technician.

If you are sure your drive is configured correctly, click Continue to have ScanDisk check drive C for errors. 

End of game!

The HDD in the T42 (onto which I intended to install Win 95) is an old (4200 rpm 2.5" IDE/PATA) Hitachi Travelstar; the specific model is IC25N040ATMR04-0 and the drive is further labeled P/N 08K0862. It has been formatted with FAT32 (again, after having booted the T42 on mini-XP via Hirens Boot-CD). The drive is reporting to 37 GB space in Hiren's mini-XP (it's a 40 GB drive). The drive seems to be in perfect working order, when accessed through the Hiren's mini-XP.

Now what?? There's no LBA settings in the T42 BIOS, so I'm a bit left in the dark here?

Any hints and tips are very welcome - and I surely have a feeling that this project WILL succeed, through the help of the fantastic friendly members of this magnificent forum!

Feedback @ Neil & rkawakami:

Niel; I don't have the Win98 bootable floppy... (although I do have a 3.5" USB-floppy drive). I have however tried to boot on various DOS floppies, and to transfer the system to the C-drive ("sys c:" etc.), but didn't get this to work.

Ray; "Compatibility Mode" under Windows XP; yes, I've already tried it, but it won't work (the program gives an odd error). I have been messing with getting the specific program to work under XP quite a bit, but have given up; now I aim for the simple (?) solution, which I *know* will work; setting up another laptop with Win95 where I know that the specific program will run. I hope it's the simplest solution!

Thanks, friends - in advance!

Johan

[twistero]

IMO the simplest solution that definitely will work is to set up a virtual machine with Win95.

The first thing to try is to wipe the partition table and let setup partition the hard drive for you. If that still doesn't work, I would do the following:
1. Wipe the partition table of the target hard drive.

2. Partition the target hard drive under DOS. I would first try a DOS version that is older than Win95, say, MS-DOS 6.22, but there's a good chance it won't work because the HDD is too large. A Win95/Win98 boot disc should be able to partition a 40GB hard drive.
Since you mentioned you have a floppy drive, it should be easy to boot whichever version of MS-DOS you want. The boot disk images should be available online somewhere, or I may have them stashed in a corner of my hard drive.
I would create 2 primary partitions both smaller than 2GB at the beginning of the disk. Then I would format both as FAT16 (NOT FAT32, since some versions of Win95OSR2 do NOT support FAT32. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/258662 )

3. Boot the computer with whatever live environment - Linux live cd, Windows PE - and copy all the contents of the Win95 installation disc to the second partition of the hard drive. Alternatively, take the hard drive out, put it in an external enclosure, and copy the files on another machine.

4. Boot the computer to DOS (with a boot disc), go to D:\, and start the installation.

This way, the final boot environment where installation takes place does not need access to the optical drive at all, and you can try different versions of MS-DOS boot disc.

[ilakast]

The boot disk images should be available online somewhere

http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

[Raceboy]

Weird, I got an 80GB HDD running without problems when I test-installed W95 on my T42, but I did fdisk and format it with W98SE boot disk and installed W95 after that.

And the W95 install disk that I sent you definitely support FAT32 as this is what I formatted it to. It was with one partition only, W95 saw whole partition without problems.

[Johan]

Although this topic may perhaps not be the hottest anywhere on the entire internet I nevertheles thought I wanted to update this thread, and not the least express my gratitude to those who have helped me to achieve success!

So, I (finally!) managed to get my old T42p up and running with Windows 95 (ver. 4.00.950 B); it actually runs pleasantly fast on the above-mentioned old, slow 4200 rpm HDD! Windows 95 report 766 MB of RAM in System Properties, although I have 1 GB installed. Moreover, I got this T42p configured to allow an old MS-DOS program running (in a DOS shell); a program which require Expanded Memory... to get this program up and running was actually the aim of all of this.

To get Windows 95 correctly installed on the T42p, I first downloaded a Windows 95 Bootdisk (diskette) from Bootdisk.Com - Free Windows Bootdisks, Free DOS boot disk, as very friendly pointed to by ilakast in this thread (and I'm surely very grateful for this very helpful link - thanks again!). I put this on a 3.5" diskette, booted the T42p from this diskette (via an USB 3.5" diskette drive), and re-formatted the HDD in the T42p, and set up the partitions on the HDD. Next, I ran the Windows 95 setup.exe (still when having booted on the Windows 95 boot-diskette) from the CD... the Win95 CD was seen as drive "R" when booting from the Win95 boot-diskette. From there on, all went with only minor issues (a few missing network-drivers etc., which I didn't care about, as this is to be a stand-alone PC with no network connections).

After the Windows 95 had been setup, I struggled a bit with getting Expanded Memory supported. Finally I managed to get it to work, after finding the reason (or a cure?) at WPDOS - Enable EMS in Some Windows XP Computers where it says (highlighting in red added by me):

ThinkPad laptop computers that do not enable EMS under Windows XP

Warning: The following advice applies to IBM or Lenovo laptop computers sold under the ThinkPad brand name only. Lenovo also makes laptop computers sold under the Lenovo brand name only, and that are not called ThinkPads); you may find it impossible to enable EMS on Lenovo laptops that are not ThinkPads.

Some models of ThinkPad computers manufactured by IBM or Lenovo (starting with the A21, R32, and T30 series, and perhaps earlier) prevent you from enabling EMS memory in their default out-of-the-box configuration. To enable EMS, you must use the pre-installed BIOS Setup Utility or ThinkPad Configuration Program (or some similar name) to change one or both of two BIOS option settings.

Access the BIOS settings by powering off your computer; then hold down the F1 key and switch it on again. The two option settings you may need to change are these: under Config, then under Network, disable Internal Network Option ROM; and under Config, then under USB, disable USB BIOS Support. You may be able to enable EMS by disabling one or the other, not both; on a ThinkPad T61, for example, I got expanded memory after disabling Internal Network Option ROM only. On some machines, however (such as my old ThinkPad T42), you will need to disable both.

Before you can access these options on some A21, R32, T30 and perhaps other ThinkPads, you must first update your computer's BIOS. This is very easy to do. Go to the ThinkPad Driver Matrix page on Lenovo's web site; find your exact model; go to the linked page; click on BIOS in the table near the top, and find the BIOS file for your model. Follow the instructions for downloading and installing the new BIOS. You may also need to download and install other files as instructed on the page with instructions for the BIOS. Recent models include a Software Installer or System Update application which can update the BIOS automatically.

So, as emphasized above, I had to disable both "Internal Network Option ROM" and "USB BIOS Support". This means that I cannot boot this T42p from an USB-diskette (unless of course except if changing the BIOS-configuration back again to enable USB-boot, but meanwhile it's OK possible to boot from a CD, such as e.g. Hiren's mini-XP). After disabling these two things in the BIOS, and after configuring EMM386 (in the config.sys) as this:

Code: Select all

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS /M:1
DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE RAM HIGHSCAN I=B000-B7FF D=64 H=255
DOS=HIGH,UMB
FILES=100
BUFFERS=20

... I can now run the program (in a DOS shell) that I need to, and with Total Expanded Memory = 64 MB and Free Expanded Memory = 16 MB... beautiful! There are still a few things to tweak (device drivers etc.), but the main things is that this EMM386 is now supported on the T42p in the DOS shell.

UPDATE (Sun. Feb. 24, 2013): I just found a way to get the Expanded Memory succesfully set up/enabled without having to disable (in the BIOS, as discussed above) neither "Internal Network Option ROM" nor "USB BIOS Support", as per a hint on Expanded Memory on IBM T42 (page 5) where it was mentioned the following line in "config.sys":

Code: Select all

DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE FRAME=D000 RAM

would allow the Expanded Memory to be succesfully setup, without having to disable neither "Internal Network Option ROM" nor "USB BIOS Support". With this new configuration I do however receive a warning during boot with this configuration, saying: "Warning: Option ROM or RAM detected within page frame" but the Windows 95 boot seems to complete OK, and my DOS-application (requiring EMM386 Expanded Memory) will start and work fine, for the limited amount of testing done so far.

According to BIOS Update (Non-Diskette) - ThinkPad R50, R50p, R51 (1829, 1830, 1831, 1836), T40, T40p, T41, T41p, T42, T42p the following memo areas are reserved:

Memory map information - Reserved Area
The following conventional memory addresses are reserved by BIOS and others:

C0000-CFFFF : Reserved for Video BIOS
D0000-D3FFF : Reserved for Option ROM of Ethernet (*3)
DC000-DFFFF : Reserved for USB BIOS (*4)
E0000-FFFFF : Reserved for System BIOS

Notes:
(*3) This area becomes free by disabling the Internal Network Option ROM option under Config and Network in the BIOS Setup Utility
(*4) This area becomes free by disabling the USB BIOS Support option under Config and USB in the BIOS Setup Utility. This choice does not affect using USB devices in Windows operating systems.

Usable Area
The following memory address can be used by the memory manager such as EMM386:

D4000-DBFFF

But certain addresses in this area will be reserved for CardBus Controllers or others by Operating Systems. The addresses vary and depend on the design of each Operating System.

... so I guess that with a little memory-map tweaking the above warning can perhaps be removed (end of this update).

Once again, thanks very much to all of you who have helped me with getting this old setup succesfully running - your help has surely been grately appreciated.

Johan