Bad luck with my Thinkpad

[Thinker]

I have had this Certified Used T23 that I got from IBM in January, and which I was very happy with.

This morning I am composing an email in Outlook when the computer shuts down by itself (the funny thing is I could hear a sound typical of electronic equipment shutting down as it happened. A little hard to describe, kind of like a 747 turbine shutting down but on a much smaller scale of course). No funny smells of anything burning, just so you know

When I turned my computer back on everything seems to be fine, but for the fact that the computer is running on the battery even though it is connected to the electrical outlet. When the computer is off, it doesn't show the green light which indicates that it is being charged either.

I have tried different jacks around the house, but it seems that something is really bad with the T23 itself. I was hopefully speculating that maybe the AC converter is busted, but due to the fact that the computer shut down on its own I am now theorizing that the most plausible explanation is that the module in the motherboard responsible for charging the battery (or simply some capacitor if that is possible) got busted.

I am left now with approximately 1:30 of battery time to backup my data and kiss my T23 goodbye. Unfortunately I got this computer 4 months ago and the warranty is over (90 days from IBM). I shelled out about $750 for this computer, and it has served me well for 4 months. Not a very good investment. I am not angry with IBM, I am sure this is just bad luck.

As you can understand, I am not going to send the computer to IBM if the most likely outcome is that the motherboard needs to be replaced (costing probably more than the computer when I bought it).

So, as an alternative, I can try and get a hold of a T23 motherboard in eBay (I swore I wouldn't buy anything in eBay after I run into trouble in one of my auctions last year).

If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. Is this just destiny's way of telling me that I must get a new T42 perhaps?

Sincerely Thinkpadless and [censored] Off.

[Batuta]

...

[Thinker]

Not a very good investment. I am not angry with IBM, I am sure this is just bad luck.

I disagree. Sounds to much like what happened to my T42p.

Batuta,

Thanks for your advice. Would you mind telling me what was wrong with your T42p? Also, I assume you were able to resolve your problem since your warranty was most likely still under effect. Did the solution require a motherboard replacement?

I am very interested in that motherboard diagnostics utility. Please, feel free to email it to me to: aristosaurus (at) yahoo (dot) com

I will run this utility and report back with the results. I am almost positive that something is wrong with the motherboard. I just hope I don't need to replace the whole thing, because it wouldn't be very cost effective. As a cheesy alternative I suppose I can get a battery charger from IBM.

Thanks again for your advice,

Ruben

[Thinker]

By the way, I forgot to say that just a few weeks ago I upgraded my RAM to 640Mb (Got a new 512 stick from Kingston), so this makes me even more angry. GRRRRRRRR

[mattfromomaha]

Granted it's probably not the AC adapter, do you have another one you can test, just to rule that out?

[Thinker]

Granted it's probably not the AC adapter, do you have another one you can test, just to rule that out?

Hi Matt,

Actually, I have a Dock II that I haven't used. I think it comes with an AC adaptor, I am going to check into this. Does anyone know if the AC adaptor from the Dock II is compatible with the T23?

Thanks for pointing that out, it just made me realize this possibility.

Edit: Obviously, the Dock II doesn't come with an AC adaptor. My mistake.

[NaT]

The Thinkpad Dock II 2877-10U does not come with an AC adapter since it has the power supply built into the unit (except if you're talking about mini dock or port replicator). You should be able to attach the unit to the docking and use the power from Dock II.

For backup, I'd suggest you get an external USB 2.5" enclosure and take your HDD out of thinkpad, so you won't have to worry about running out of battery. Usually the enclosure costs around $17-25.

Wish you luck with your mission

[Thinker]

Wish you luck with your mission

NaT,

Thanks for the advice. I will try to connect the T23 to the Dock II and see if that works (thanks for pointing that out). It is not an optimal solution, but better than dumping the computer.

I already backed up most of my files on a CD, so I have that covered. I might also get an external enclosure like you said.

You know what really pisses me off? This computer had a 90 day warranty, and it had to break down on the 125th (approximately) day.
I really need to vent off, sorry about that.

[Marc_G]

Thinker-

I've had several AC adaptors fail, right at the point where the cable coming out of the adaptor meets the plug that plugs into the Thinkpad. Shorts there will cause the system to turn off instantly, often with a sound like you described (the fan spins down and sounds like a jet engine dying).

In some cases the short is intermittent, meaning the system will restart and be OK until next time the short happens. Other times, the short causes the wire in the cable to break so there is now no power coming out of the plug. This latter would explain what you are seeing.

I would see if you can test the adaptor with a voltmeter to see if power is coming out, and test the Thinkpad with another adaptor to see if it works OK with a different adaptor.

These tests will let you know if the adaptor is at fault of the computer itself. Good luck. Let us know what you find out.

Marc

[Thinker]

Thinker-

I've had several AC adaptors fail, right at the point where the cable coming out of the adaptor meets the plug that plugs into the Thinkpad. Shorts there will cause the system to turn off instantly, often with a sound like you described (the fan spins down and sounds like a jet engine dying).

Marc,

Yes, you are describing exactly what I heard. I was pesimistic because I thought it would be something wrong with the power module in the computer itself, but from what you say it makes a lot of sense that it might be a problem with the AC adapter. I will see if I can get my hands on an adapter somehow, to test if the computer will work with that one.

I guess connecting the T23 to the Dock II won't tell me anything because it would get the power from the interface connection at the bottom, so I do really need an adapter. Anyone willing to trade an adapter for a 128 Mb RAM stick?

Thanks for pointing this out! I will let you know when I can check things.

Ruben

[Rahula]

Out of convenience, I frequently switch the power adapters between my T23 and Fujitsu laptop as their plugs fit each other's power jack. I have been doing this in the past 3 years, as the battery would act as buffer to take care of any power charge difference. Maybe you could check out a neighbor who has a laptop power adapter which has a plug that fits your T23. I know this reply is 3 days late, but just in case you haven't got hold of a T23 power adapter, this test would confirm whether your T23 power adapter is the source of your problem.

[JHEM]

The mere fact that the power plugs are physically the same is NOT a good reason to use power supllies from different manufacturers on your Thinkpad!

The plugs could be exactly the same yet have the polarity reversed! Or the voltage could be widely differing.

Nor does the battery act as a buffer! The battery is not directly connected to the power brick but rather draws its power from the DC/DC card.

Regards,

James

[NaT]

Out of convenience, I frequently switch the power adapters between my T23 and Fujitsu laptop as their plugs fit each other's power jack.

Well, you should watch out for the electrical specifications, though --voltage, ampere, max power, polarity. Otherwise, ether your AC adapter will break (good luck) or your Thinkpad will short (bad luck).

Thinker, so when you attach T23 to Dock II, the power input and batter charging work fine, right? If that's the case, chance is I think you're lucky because the charging module on system board is intact. Either the AC adapter itself or the DC interface on the Thinkpad has the problem. Either case, you can find a spare or repair it with much lower cost than mainboard.

AC adapter should cost around $40-60 (for 3rd party) while the DC interface costs a few bucks only. Umm, you might need a bit of soldering experience, still. Let us know what you find out.

NaT.

[BillMorrow]

use a correct AC adapter..

has no one ever heard of a volt meter..??

or a VOM (volt/ohm meter)..????????

seems like the FIRST thing i would check..
is the ()&*^! AC adapter putting out the correct (or ANY) voltage..?

if not, there you are, worry over..
if so, well now you know..

geeze..

[Thinker]

The mere fact that the power plugs are physically the same is NOT a good reason to use power supllies from different manufacturers on your Thinkpad!

James,

Hehe thanks for the warning. I appreciate Rahula's good intentions, but you're right.

What I am very surprised to know is that the battery doesn't act as a buffer. I am pretty sure I have heard that before, but what you say makes more sense (Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to operate a Thinkpad directly from AC without a battery installed, and I think you can).

Take care.

[Thinker]

Thinker, so when you attach T23 to Dock II, the power input and batter charging work fine, right? If that's the case, chance is I think you're lucky because the charging module on system board is intact. Either the AC adapter itself or the DC interface on the Thinkpad has the problem. Either case, you can find a spare or repair it with much lower cost than mainboard.

NaT,

I tested this last night, and the T23 worked fine connected to the Dock II, drawing power from it. So, like you say the charging module on the SB seems to be fine.

I hope that the AC adapter is the problem, because my soldering skills are null. Either way, I feel much better now.

Ummm...Let's say that the DC interface needs to be replaced. Is this an IBM part, or a generic component? And, would the Hardware Maintenance Manual probably have the instructions for the replacement? Sorry to ask so many questions, feel free to ignore them. It's just that you really seem to know what you're talking about, so I might just as well mine you for ideas

You put my mind at ease, thanks!

Ruben

[Thinker]

has no one ever heard of a volt meter..??

or a VOM (volt/ohm meter)..????????

Bill,

Believe it or not, I have heard of such a thing. I actually think I saw one in a movie once

Seriously though, I never thought I would have any use for one. I guess I was wrong. I was thinking of connecting the AC adapter and then dipping the connector into a small glass of watter (I dare you to think I'm just kidding. Actually, the thought furtively passed through my mind, but I dismissed it quite easily.)

OK, so what do I get first, the Volt meter or the adapter? Thanks to NaT I have narrowed down the potential problem to either the AC adapter or the DC interface. If I can get a Volt meter for cheap in Radioshack I might do that (even if it turns out that the DC interface is the problem). Otherwise I might as well just throw my dice and order an AC adapter.
Which is most likely to be at fault?

Take care,

Ruben

[Marc_G]

Hi Reuben-

IMHO, having an extra AC adaptor is very useful, so my call would be to order one and see if that does the trick, since if it was not the problem, having an extra one is still a good thing.

You could take the existing adaptor in to RadioShack and have them test it with a VOM; most of the RS around me will do little customer service things like this, if they aren't too busy asking for zip codes from people buying batteries...

You might just call up IBM and give them the FRU# of the adaptor. If you are in warranty, they'll replace it for free, and if no, they still may replace it as part of a silent warranty thing. Adaptor problems can cause dangerous events and my experience is they don't argue much for safety parts like this.

Marc

[Thinker]

You could take the existing adaptor in to RadioShack and have them test it with a VOM; most of the RS around me will do little customer service things like this, if they aren't too busy asking for zip codes from people buying batteries...

Hahaha. Yes, working for Radioshack must be quite an experience.

I guess I'll first do as you say. I didn't know they could do these tests for free. Now that I think about it, I'm low on AAA's, so I'll just buy some to make it worth their while

I will also try to get IBM to replace the AC Adapter for free if that's the problem. This T23 was a certified used one, and the adapter has a sticker that says Used Equipment. I think I treated the cables on it very gently, but who knows what the previous owner may have done to it.

Have a nice day,

Ruben

[NaT]

You could take the existing adaptor in to RadioShack and have them test it with a VOM; most of the RS around me will do little customer service things like this, if they aren't too busy asking for zip codes from people buying batteries...

Hahaha. Yes, working for Radioshack must be quite an experience.

I guess I'll first do as you say. I didn't know they could do these tests for free.

Ruben

Hehehe... instead of let them test only AC adapter, why don't you also bring the Thinkpad with you, tell the RadioShack guy that you're not sure which one causes the problem and want to buy the AC adapter if that's the cause. Then, ask them to try their universal AC adapter with your Thinkpad, if that is okay, you then decide to buy it ... or tell them you will think about it, if you don't want to buy from them.

NaT

[Thinker]

Hehehe... instead of let them test only AC adapter, why don't you also bring the Thinkpad with you, tell the RadioShack guy that you're not sure which one causes the problem and want to buy the AC adapter if that's the cause.

NaT,

You scared me for a moment there. Before I finished your sentence, I thought you were suggesting that I take the ThinkPad to RadioShack so that they would fix it for free. You see why this is impossible for two reasons, don't you? (This whole scenario makes me thing of those lazy people that hang around furniture stores to "try" the couches and have a nap while they are at it.)

I don't know if getting a universal adapter from RadioShack for my T23 would be a wise move though. Specially considering that when the adapter starts a fire I wouldn't be able to sue the crap out of IBM..ERRR...Lenovo.

Ruben

[Thinker]

Just a quick update:

I bought a digital multimeter from Radioshack (I just figured what the hey, it may come handy in the future). I can confirm that the transformer seems to be defective, since I can't obtain a consistent voltage output of more than 500 mV. I guess it's time to order a new one from IBM.

Oh well, I'm just glad I don't need to gut my computer and attempt to replace the DC interface.

Thanks to all you guys!

[MadeInJapan]

eBay often has these AC adapters for a decent price. Just make sure the seller's ratings are good and that the adapter is the right one for the T23 (look on the back of yours, or better yet, on the back of your computer) and match up the Volts and the amps...actually, amps can be more than what your thinkpad says, but not the volts).

Good luck!

[Thinker]

eBay often has these AC adapters for a decent price.

Hi.

Yes, I actually need to check this out and see if it is worth it getting a second hand adapter from eBay. Not need to spend close to $100 in a new IBM adapter I guess. Thanks for the tip.

Ruben

[baraider]

can a T42 ac adapter be used on a T23 or vice versa?

[MadeInJapan]

Yes, as long as Voltage is 16Volts and Amps are at least 3.38 for the T4X to be used with T23 (the above specs are for the T2X series). If you are going to use them interchangeably, then both Volts and Amps should be exact for both, and I believe they are, but you better check.