The search for the ultimate Thinkpad T4x - The start and end

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mlykke · #121 Post by **mlykke** » Sun May 15, 2005 10:52 am

My version is in german and i dont understand that language

*GG* Well at least not very well.

danny_isr · #122 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun May 15, 2005 10:57 am

ah i see , cannot help with that.
anyhow when you will do that it should not take much time , it's a T43 !!!

good thing you not returning the T42p

( at least you can finally turn the A/C off and take the ear plugs out now)

mlykke · #123 Post by **mlykke** » Sun May 15, 2005 11:18 am

HAHAHAHAHA

Very funny

Actually im returning them all

But dont worry i'll get the T42P back

But im worried that hte graphics performance during the reinstall will slow it down - It is a T43 afterall

*GG*

danny_isr · #124 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun May 15, 2005 11:23 am

turn off the screen FN+F3 , then no display = nothing to slow it down

JHaislet · #125 Post by **JHaislet** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:55 pm

Does that actually turn off the graphics card? Or just the power down the LCD (as I suspect)? Simply turning off your display shouldn't have any effect on the install speed of windows, as the graphics card is still active.

Has anyone found any more info about the T43/T43p fan speed issue? I really want a T43/T43p, but the fan issue still concerns me. How long would such an issue take to "work" itself out with IBM? Maybe the next revision could correct this?

danny_isr · #126 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun May 15, 2005 1:03 pm

JHaislet wrote:Does that actually turn off the graphics card? Or just the power down the LCD (as I suspect)? Simply turning off your display shouldn't have any effect on the install speed of windows, as the graphics card is still active.

that was a joke

JHaislet wrote: Has anyone found any more info about the T43/T43p fan speed issue? I really want a T43/T43p, but the fan issue still concerns me. How long would such an issue take to "work" itself out with IBM? Maybe the next revision could correct this?

i can speak only for the T43 - i don't think there is an issue. fan is on all the time true . but the noise level is VERY low at least in my opinion

mlykke · #127 Post by **mlykke** » Sun May 15, 2005 1:22 pm

JHaislet wrote:Does that actually turn off the graphics card? Or just the power down the LCD (as I suspect)? Simply turning off your display shouldn't have any effect on the install speed of windows, as the graphics card is still active.

Has anyone found any more info about the T43/T43p fan speed issue? I really want a T43/T43p, but the fan issue still concerns me. How long would such an issue take to "work" itself out with IBM? Maybe the next revision could correct this?

The first part was just be and Danny joking around

In regards to the other thing dont expect it be solved right away. This is not a new problem and people have been complaining for quite a while and several BIOS updates has been released but none of them fixes anything.
The T43 is ok in regards to the noise, but the T43P is annoying and the T42P(and proberbly also the non P's) are great.

It all depends on what you would characterise as annoying.

Zeitgeist · #128 Post by **Zeitgeist** » Sun May 15, 2005 2:02 pm

mlykke wrote: Anyway, now its time to restore the buggers back to a clean state. Hmm...german rescue and restore - i dont understand much of it
Oh well gonna start another thread for my questions with that.

See http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=71560#71560

mlykke · #129 Post by **mlykke** » Sun May 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Thanks - but i finally got myself spelled through the german and found out how to do it

Bluecat · #130 Post by **Bluecat** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:47 pm

Mlykke,

Could you make a screenshot of the IRQ layout in the T43p (device manager, view by connection and expand IRQ)? Here you see the real internal change with the 915 chipset. I am really curious for this.

Sounds like I have to live with the louder fan than. But then, I am a classical music performer and I need as many fans as I can get..

I only use my laptop for short periods of time and anything that can make me work faster and get me off the thing will be good for my practising. I can imagine that when you work with it all day the fan noise is incredibly important. For me, two hours a day use in often noisy surroundings, it will be fine. You might think this thing is overkill for someone like me, but I have used second hand thinkpads for the past 5 years and promised myself that when I would get more work I was going to treat myself to the best and fastest Thinkpad....

danny_isr · #131 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:51 pm

if you dont need the "high end" card that the 43p got. Get the regular 43.
less noise and same performance .

jmt · #132 Post by **jmt** » Sun May 15, 2005 5:38 pm

"I have used second hand thinkpads for the past 5 years and promised myself that when I would get more work I was going to treat myself to the best and fastest Thinkpad"

Bluecat, good for you. You will never regret your decision. It will bring you joy for several years.

mlykke · #133 Post by **mlykke** » Sun May 15, 2005 8:31 pm

Bluecat -> Sorry - I forgot and i have reinstalled the machines back so that they can be returned to the shop so now i cant take the screenshot for you

But maybe somebody else in here would be so kind as to make the screenshot for you.

Zeitgeist · #134 Post by **Zeitgeist** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:15 am

BillMorrow wrote:GOOD WORK..

if you gather your results and send them to me or post them i'll read them and make a sticky..
and probably post on thinkpads.com..

how does that sound..?
being a published author might get you a press pass to the next CeBit (?) show in germany.. (uhmm, they DO have it in germany, right? )

Yes, mlykke, please make a summary with copy and paste so we do not need to go through 5+ pages.

Yes, Bill, The Cebit takes place in Hannover, Germany.

mlykke · #135 Post by **mlykke** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:49 am

Zeitgeist wrote:
BillMorrow wrote:GOOD WORK..

if you gather your results and send them to me or post them i'll read them and make a sticky..
and probably post on thinkpads.com..

how does that sound..?
being a published author might get you a press pass to the next CeBit (?) show in germany.. (uhmm, they DO have it in germany, right? )
Yes, mlykke, please make a summary with copy and paste so we do not need to go through 5+ pages.

Yes, Bill, The Cebit takes place in Hannover, Germany.

Sure - I'll do that

Gimme a day or something and then i'll have something written up

z_mentor · #136 Post by **z_mentor** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:09 am

First of all, thank you so much for all your trouble and your patience with us.

I hope I am not too late for one last test...

Regarding the T43p fan noise problem:

Could you please inform us if you tried updating the Embedded Controller Program besides updating the BIOS?

If you see on the page below:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-59121

the latest version 1.03 mentions the following:

Version 1YHT26WW (1.03)
Note: This version of Embedded Controller Program will only work with BIOS Version 1.00b to 1.04.

* (Fix) Adjustment for CPU thermal sensor error.

Perhaps this could minimize the problem of the fan being constantly on.

Thank you in advance for all your hard work. You have been more helpful than you can imagine

mlykke · #137 Post by **mlykke** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:29 am

Im glad that you could use the info.

I've tried all updates available for both the controller and the BIOS and i have tried to combine them in different ways to see if it made a difference.
Nothing i tried did help on the fan unfortuantely.

Zeitgeist · #138 Post by **Zeitgeist** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:04 pm

z_mentor wrote:
Regarding the T43p fan noise problem:

Could you please inform us if you tried updating the Embedded Controller Program besides updating the BIOS?

If you see on the page below:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-59121

the latest version 1.03 mentions the following:

Version 1YHT26WW (1.03)
Note: This version of Embedded Controller Program will only work with BIOS Version 1.00b to 1.04.

* (Fix) Adjustment for CPU thermal sensor error.

Even the 1.05 bios update didn´t help, the fan is constantly running (T43, 2.0 GHz, x300)

danny_isr · #139 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:08 pm

what changed on the last version of the bios. i'm still on 1.02

Zeitgeist · #140 Post by **Zeitgeist** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:19 pm

danny_isr wrote:what changed on the last version of the bios. i'm still on 1.02

Bios
http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-59096

and
http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-59120
for the embedded controller

NathanA · #141 Post by **NathanA** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:26 pm

mlykke wrote:How can i see if the keyboard is one kind or the other?

mlykke,

There are a couple of different ways:

1. Take the keyboards out and look at the back of them for their FRU number. Post the FRUs here on this thread, and we can then look them up on the Hardware Maintenance Manual to see which keyboard model(s) your computers were assembled with. The keyboard is a customer-replaceable part and disassembling the keyboard from the computer will not void your warranty (if your T4x keyboard breaks, you do not have to send it back to IBM for servicing...they'll just send you a new keyboard and expect you to install it). There are instructions on the IBM web site on how to take the keyboard out and put it back in (there's even an instructional video!).

2. If that sounds too time-consuming, then either post the serial numbers here on the board (as well as their matching machine types), and we can look up the complete parts list used to assemble the computer (including the keyboard, naturally), or you can do so yourself at this URL:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm

The line that corresponds with the keyboard part should be fairly obvious. Post the FRUs for the keyboards used on all three machines.

Thanks!

-- Nathan

NathanA · #142 Post by **NathanA** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:36 pm

mlykke wrote:Anyway - Is there a way to install english versions of the IBM utilities on a german machine? I downloaded some IBM software from their webpage by selecting the matching US version of the machine but when i install it it somehow detects that its a german version cause everything is in german.

Have you tried changing the machine type in the BIOS to the equivalent US model? Perhaps that's where IBM's software is looking, and people seem to indicate (though i haven't tried it myself) that the later BIOS versions allow one to change the model number in the BIOS setup.

-- Nathan

z_mentor · #143 Post by **z_mentor** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:58 pm

mlykke wrote:Im glad that you could use the info.

I've tried all updates available for both the controller and the BIOS and i have tried to combine them in different ways to see if it made a difference.
Nothing i tried did help on the fan unfortuantely.

Thank you very much mlykke for your quick response.

I am glad that you had already tried out it so that I didn't put you into much trouble at the last minute.

Too bad it didn't fix anything

mlykke · #144 Post by **mlykke** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:18 pm

You're welcome

And to all the other people who answered some of my previous questions i got them all figured out.

The keyboard on the T42P was from Thailand but the one on the T43 was from China, and that was also the "bad" one of them, if you can call an IBM keyboard bad.

NathanA · #145 Post by **NathanA** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:41 pm

mlykke wrote:The keyboard on the T42P was from Thailand but the one on the T43 was from China, and that was also the "bad" one of them, if you can call an IBM keyboard bad.

Yeah, exactly.

I've actually wondered if lately I haven't come to *prefer* the Chinese keyboard. It has a "lighter" touch to it (not as stiff), but it isn't "mushy" and I don't feel that the lighter touch sacrifices tactile feedback. The Alps keyboard I feel is perhaps slightly "truer" in touch to the One True Keyboard[tm], the IBM Model M.

I think that the main gripes with the Chinese model(s) are: 1. Lack of consistency (the Alps ones, at least, seem to vary from 'board to 'board...one individual who posted on this board had 2 T42s both with the exact same keyboard FRU [Chinese], one he said was significantly better than the other one), and 2. a thin, weak backplate (the NMB one lies flat for me and is nice and sturdy, whereas my Alps 'board is a bit flimsy and looks "warped"/kind of dips down in the middle).

As far as the keyboards in your Thinkpads go, mlykke, out of curiosity, do you happen to know if the Chinese models you got are Alps-manufactured or Chicony-manufactured? Never had an experience with the Chicony model myself, and it seems that all of the posts on this forum "dissing" the Chinese model are all in reference to the Alps one.

-- Nathan

mlykke · #146 Post by **mlykke** » Mon May 16, 2005 3:49 pm

Well the FRU for the chinese keyboard was: 08K4961 so you tell me?

And the FRU for the T42P was: 08K5048 - So which one is this?

I prefere the last one, but there is no question that both where GREAT keyboards.

NathanA · #147 Post by **NathanA** » Mon May 16, 2005 6:26 pm

mlykke wrote:Well the FRU for the chinese keyboard was: 08K4961 so you tell me?

Hmm, you sure that that is the FRU # and not the ASM #? I can't find record of this FRU item anywhere.

mlykke wrote:And the FRU for the T42P was: 08K5048 - So which one is this?

That one is, indeed, the NMB keyboard for the 14.1" T4x ThinkPads, German model. Made in Thailand.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-46503

-- Nathan

mlykke · #148 Post by **mlykke** » Mon May 16, 2005 6:51 pm

My bad i wrote the wrong number the correct RRU is: 08K4990

onix · #149 Post by **onix** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:42 pm

I agree with your assessment mlykke. After suffering with a top of the line T23 which has poor battery life & a terrible graphics chip (S3 SuperSavage), I think the T42p is an excellent choice. I would easily pass up a faster processor for a better GPU, better FSB, and better battery life, and probably in that order.

I do run CAD and lots of scientific software. The graphics on the T23 has been flakey to horrendus.

NathanA · #150 Post by **NathanA** » Tue May 17, 2005 12:01 pm

mlykke wrote:My bad i wrote the wrong number the correct RRU is: 08K4990

Well, this is certainly odd. I was sure that there would be *some* record *somewhere* of the list of FRUs for the old Alps keyboard parts for the 14" models. I knew that they had finally retired the FRU and were only offering the NMB models on the 14" laptops near the end of last year until Chicony was added as yet another keyboard source.

But...I cannot find any mention of Alps keyboard FRUs for 14" laptops anywhere!! I even found an older copy of the HMM for the T4x series (April 2004), and it doesn't list them either! It only shows NMB for 14" models.

However, given how close numerically your keyboard FRU is to the US model of 14" Alps keyboard as posted to numerous threads on this forum (08K4986), I'm going to guess that yours is the Germal Alps model and not the Chicony. Which is really interesting given that Alps was supposedly "discontinued" as a source of keyboards for the 14" models (and here you have a T43 with a "discontinued" part!).

Or maybe that was only for computers destined for sale in the US? If I try to punch in FRU 08K4986 or 08K4990 into the IBM parts ordering form for US buyers, they both come up as invalid part numbers. However, 08K4990 is described as a T4x German keyboard if you punch that FRU into the ordering web page on the IBM U.K. parts site (though it doesn't mention "Alps" specifically)!

Very interesting...

Did both the T43 and the T43p have the same FRU for the keyboard?

-- Nathan

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