New SSD opt. for T4x : mSATA-to-IDE adapter ST663FD9 *PICS*

[GACrabill]

Last year’s SSD solution for IDE T4x laptops used a 1.8” microSATA SSD, an IDE-to-microSATA adapter, and a Shapeways caddy.

There are/were a few minor issues with the microSATA solution :
- 1.8” microSATA SSDs are becoming increasingly hard to find
- not all 1.8” SSD brands and models work perfectly with the Jmicron JM20330 chip on the IDE-to-microSATA adapter
- the HDD activity LED light stopped working

I recently purchased an mSATA SSD for a newer laptop which has an mSATA bay (sata-II).

I decided to also purchase “ST663FD9 mSATA to IDE 44pin converter adapter with 2.5 inch case” so that I could test an mSATA SSD in my T40, and hopefully find an SSD solution that works easily for ANY normal IDE laptop.



Forum member ‘Acheron’ had problems with this adapter fitting properly (http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 2&t=110642), but other reviews/feedback for this adapter were positive so I inspected it carefully before assuming that it would fit perfectly.

Length and width look good.



Pin alignment is the problem.







The solution was to remove the two mounting screws from the 44-pin edge of the assembly, place that edge of the board under the tabs instead of on top of the tabs, and leave the two mounting screws at the other end to attach the board to the ‘case’.



The pins are now aligned properly and everything fits together perfectly.



This adapter/case is professionally packaged ... very impressive. There are a number of screws since the adapter can also handle half-size mSATA SSDs ... read the instructions and study the pictures so that you know which screws are used with which option. Actually, based on the overall quality of this adapter, I am quite surprised that the 44-pins were not aligned properly for a recessed caddy installation.

The advantages of the mSATA SSD and ST663FD9 adapter solution :
- much easier to find current technology mSATA SSDs
- the Jmicron chip in the adapter is the newer JMH330 which fixes some (all?) of the issues of the older JM20330 chip
- the HDD activity LED light works
- an mSATA SSD will be easier to re-deploy in a newer PC than a 1.8” microSATA SSD
- a very nice SSD solution for ANY of the older normal IDE laptops

I tested the mSATA SSD / ST663FD9 adapter in my T40 with both Win7 and XP (both operating systems were ‘aligned’ properly). I started ~20 processes so that memory was filled and paging was occurring ..... no problems. I also used ‘TRIMcheck’ to verify that Win7 ‘trim’ was working thru the JMH330 chip on the ST663FD9 adapter (‘trim’ works properly thru the JM20330 chip also). TRIMcheck also showed that ‘trim’ was not working on XP ... as expected.

Some Crystal Disk Mark results :

T40 (2.0GHz) with 256GB msata SSD : Win7 on the left, XP (aligned) on the right


My opinion :
- I wouldn’t buy an old mSATA SSD ...... no warranty; most models were OEM and firmware updates are not available from some manufacturers for OEM models; some of those old models had firmware issues for which you won’t be able to get fixes.
- new technology mSATA SSDs are usually faster (won’t be noticed in an IDE or sata-I install but I expect almost any SSD will be re-deployed when the IDE laptop gets retired); and have better firmware, error recovery, and garbage collection mechanisms than the mSATA SSDs of 2-3 years ago.

Some additional slightly off-topic info :

Just for fun, I also bought “AD963FD9 SATA-III to mSATA 6Gb/s SSD converter adapter with 2.5 case”. My goal was to compare the mSATA SSD in an mSATA bay (sata-II) vs. the sata-III adapter in a HDD bay. Even though the user chose the additonal storage space of an HDD in that bay and decided to keep the mSATA SSD in the mSATA bay at sata-II speeds, I now know how easily an mSATA SSD can be used in an IDE adapter, an mSATA bay, or in a sata HDD bay with an “AD963FD9” adapter (no problems with ‘pin alignment’ with this adapter). I learned a great deal and had lots of fun at the same time.

Here’s the CDM results of sata-II vs. sata-III (Dell Precision M6700 with i7-3720QM) :



Edit 07/29/2014 : changed pics from imageshack.com to tinypic.com

[lophiomys]

Thanks very much for the info. Ordered one right away.

[Eric Giles]

Excellent information-thank you very much. I just so happened to be playing around last night with my T42 that has the Kingston 1.8" microSATA/IDE to microSATA adapter combo. This sounds like it would definitely be a better solution for the future.

[AnakiMana]

Wow, excellent post! My virtual hat is off to you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[clgr000ar]

Many thanks, I just ordered too

[automobus]

If I may be a loudmouth where nobody invited me, then consider my opinion.

You might consider Lycom ST-173-7. I am almost certain, it contains Marvell bridge. The best! It even has the legacy mounting holes, not used since 1997 or 1998.

http://www.lycom.com.tw/ST-173-7.htm

Lycom is one of my favourites. The quality of their parts, in my opinion, is best. I try to buy genuine Lycom, whenever I can. But it is very difficult to do! In fact, about the only big retailer which I can find, carrying Lycom goods, is Scan Computers in UK. I notice, a few of you are located in Europe. Lucky you. You can buy from Scan Computers. Unfortunately, it is rather difficult to find a distributor. But for as long as I have been looking (three years), I found one vendor again and again: Scan Computers. I never did business with them, never contacted them, I cannot endorse them. But I would much rather buy from them, than buy the "mystery meat" crap electronics found in fleabay.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-st ... -ssd-drive

(and for those of you married to PayPal and eBay UK, consider item 121210062354)

[GACrabill]

You might consider Lycom ST-173-7. I am almost certain, it contains Marvell bridge.

Honestly, I love having alternative products to choose from. It's disappointing that we can't find specifics about the IDE/SATA conversion chip used on the Lycom card. It's also frustrating to know that there seems to be extremely few sellers of that company's products.

Lycom is one of my favourites. .... But I would much rather buy from them, than buy the "mystery meat" crap electronics found in fleabay.

Minerva, manufacturer of the ST663FD9 adapter, is located in Taiwan ... as is Lycom. Both companies seem to specialize in "adapter" type products.
http://www.computex.biz/Minerva/
http://www.computex.biz/lycom/default.aspx

My guess is that both companies make excellent products.

[automobus]

To clarify: I absolutely believe ST-173-7 contains the Marvell controller. I do not know it to be a fact. It is a fact, Lycom's other parallel/serial ATA bridge products contain the Marvell.

The form factor, 2.5-inch ATA, is about twenty years old. A recently designed product, with incorrect connector position, is not what I call excellent.

[clgr000ar]

I installed my mSATA setup as described above this evening.

Thank you for this newer solution, works great!!

[clgr000ar]

I've now put the old IDE HDD in an ultrabay IDE caddy, and it's recognised correctly by Windows but when I try to access it, I'm told I dont have permission to view or edit it...any ideas please?


EDIT - Now figured it out by enabling the Guest Account - All is good

[Nameless]

I've discovered that the Lycom adapter can be had in the US as well, it seems Addonics is their reseller here, part number ADMS25IDE. I've ordered one and will report back once I receive it and have a chance to play around with it a bit.

EDIT: they only have the 7mm height version, but I measured the height of the HDD in my T43p and it turned out to be a 9.5mm height. I hope I don't run into any problems because of that.

[automobus]

only have 7mm height, T43p is 9.5mm height. I hope I don't run into any problems because of that.

In the ThinkPad, HDD is guided by caddy and screws. The correct caddy makes a 9 mm height, the correct screws guide it to correct alignment / position. Simple as that. ThinkPad drives and bays were engineered, I think, a nice job. In IBM's happy ThinkPad world, drives have caddies and rails and things fit well. In the 2005 makeover, the αsixties, HDD got rubber booties, and that too was good. The adapter sled for microSATA, 42W7888, is designed to exactly replace a ordinary 2.5-inch drive in caddy in rubber sides. Genuine Serial Ultrabay tray/caddy accepts the rubber bumpers. Consistent drive fitting is one of the considerations which made ThinkPad, ThinkPad.

edit: Better than my words, GACrabill started this discussion with good pictures, illustrating just what I am trying to describe. Take your eyes back the the first post; look at the picture of caddies with their drives mounted; the caddy height is about 9mm. You see? Occupied with a 9.5mm drive, total height is about 10mm.

it seems Addonics is their reseller

They are not a seller/dealer/trader/friend/associate/consumer/vendor of Lycom. They told me, that they are not. They would not even need to prove they carry Lycom products, they would need only claim to sell Lycom, in order to earn my money. You know how teenage males like to use a picture of Fry of Futurama, a fistful of cash, "shut up and take my money"? If Addonics pretended they had Lycom stuff, then they would be getting my money. They could carry horrendous stuff from MMUI "Syba", spraypaint it red, call it Lycom, and I would not be able to prove them wrong.

But Addonics do not want my money. This is, paraphrased, our correspondence.

I asked : ADMS25IDE looks like Lycom ST-173-7. Is my observation correct, is it genuine Lycom? What bridge chip is in it?

Bill - Technical answered : It is a Marvell chip, the same chip that is used in our SATA-IDE converter.

I : Think you, I am happy to learn it uses a Marvell bridge. Is this adapter made by Lycom?

Bill : This is made by Addonics. I don't know how to comment other vendor's product. Many electronic cards do look alike. But I cannot be sure they are the same.

I : Made by Addonics? Manufactured by Addonics?

Bill : Yes.

I : Addonics has a manufacturing plant, Addonics has factory workers, workers get a paycheck from Addonics? Frankly, not to be offensive, I doubt it. I suspect Addonics simply purchases a batch from a Taiwanese Original Equipment Manufacturer, very likely Lycom. If this is "made by Addonics", rather than "made by Lycom, then ordered and sold to consumers by Addonics", then please tell me where Addonics makes it.

Bill : We do have several sub contract manufacturers in China and Taiwan. As far as I know, Addonics does make this adapter which you are inquiring about. But if you want to get a Lycom product, you should contact them.

I : I think it is more than mere coincidence, that Addonics ADMS25IDE and Lycom ST-173-7 seem identical from catalog pictures. Who engineered ADMS25IDE? Is it a reference design from Marvell?

Bill : I am not sure what exactly you want to know. If you want to discuss design and manufacturing, that is beyond the scope of our sales and tech support team. Every manufacturer will have its own design depending on the application. If you are looking for technical information on the ASIC, please contact Marvell.

I : I am not looking to make my own, I am not after a copy of the design documents. I am looking for responsibility and honesty. The opposite of marketing lies and obfuscation. I have purchased things in the past, from companies without phone numbers, they act as though they make fine goods by themselves, or as though they pull working products out the air and sell them. And I feel terrible, not because I spent money, but because I made the world a worse place. I funded shady business, and I filled a little bit more landfill this planet with techno garbage.
I imagine either: ADMS25IDE and ST-173-7 are manufactured by the same OEM; or multiple OEMs bought the same design. The more truth you tell me, the more I can trust you. The more your customers trust you, the more sales. That is my belief, anyway.

Bill : I understand your feeling. It does take good research to find a reliable supplier. … details of Addonics quality control procedure … mention of practice that crappy retailers put products, returned as non-functional, right back on shelves … old saying, you get what you pay for

I : It baffles me, why brands seldom mention OEM. I vote with my wallet, when I find brands or merchants with end-to-end honesty. Is Addonics ADSAIDE made by Lycom?

Bill : Look. All Addonics products are made by Addonics. If you are looking for Lycom product, please contact Lycom directly.

I : Look. Unless the factory workers get a Addonics paycheck, and call themselves employees of Addonics, then Addonics do not make it.
Look. I own a ADSAIDE. It does not say ADSAIDE on it. You know what it says? It says ADST1062. Lycom has a product ST106-2. Do you have an explanation, why is the board marked ADST1062 rather than ADSAIDE?
I want to know what team / organisation / company manufactures the product. If I am not allowed to know this, then I want to know what engineer / team / company did the engineering / design work.

(no response)

I : Do you enjoy whitewashing? Obfuscating?

(no response)

So I do suspect Addonics is a importer of Lycom products. I suspect, Lycom has actual engineers (not marketting lies engineers). I suspect, Lycom has computer and/or electronic engineers, designing/engineering products. But I cannot prove it. I did just one time ask Lycom, whether Addonics is one of their customers. I did not get a reply.

At present I own three cards (not including ADST1062), which I believe were made by Lycom. I do not know who made them. I only have belief, not proof or anything traceable. All three were purchased from eBay, from individual person people sellers, not from gigantosellers.

I do not want to give money to Addonics. I cannot believe Bill replied "I am not sure what exactly you want to know.", when I asked "is Addonics model_blah made by Lycom". I think, it is not difficult to understand my main question.

Sometimes it is easy, to know what company made a durable product: turn over a Motion Computing C5, and it is clearly marked Pegatron or ASUSTEK. Sometimes, it requires some disassembly: inside my Tripp-Lite Command Console, the components have UL file numbers which correspond to American companies, so I assume it was made by Tripp-Lite (rather than "imported from China by Tripp-Lite"). For some items, it can be pretty confusing or difficult to determine who is the manufacturer: such as Electrolux-Eureka-Aerus vacuum cleaners.

[Xenomorph]

Are there any reliable links other than eBay to buy the mSATA to 44pin IDE adapter?

Also, I was looking to pair it with this mSATA SSD:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820226320

Mushkin Enhanced SSD, with a SandForce 2281 controller. That means active garbage collection, regardless of OS - so it would work well in a ThinkPad T43 running Windows XP, or even some other IDE/PATA-based system, like a PlayStation 2 or any ancient computer.

[ajkula66]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820226320

Mushkin Enhanced SSD, with a SandForce 2281 controller. That means active garbage collection, regardless of OS - so it would work well in a ThinkPad T43 running Windows XP, or even some other IDE/PATA-based system, like a PlayStation 2 or any ancient computer.

I've had personal horrendous experiences with SF-based Mushkin drives and wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

Your money, your data, your call.

[Xenomorph]

I've had personal horrendous experiences with SF-based Mushkin drives and wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

Your money, your data, your call.

Well, I actually had two Mushkin SSDs die on me recently... But I've also purchased a lot of SSDs (all SandForce 2281-based), and have had great luck with all but two of them (both failed within days of purchase, so nothing was lost).

[ajkula66]

I've gone through more SSDs than I'd care to remember and the only ones that I had bad experiences with were SF-based units.

Therefore, no SF in this household, ever again.

[Xenomorph]

Older ones, right?

Old SandForce drives, especially from terrible companies like OCZ, seemed to scare many people away from SandForce.

By October 2012, I believe firmware that fixed the biggest issues with the chipset were released (5.0.4). It was after that time that I made the call at my job to switch everyone over to SSDs, and quality SandForce drives were chosen for all systems. SanDisk SSDs are still on 5.0.4. Mushkin is shipping drives with 5.2.2 (but strangely only had 5.0.7 for download on their site). OWC drives are up to 5.2.2 at least.

Intel (known for their reliability) uses SandForce in a lot of their drives, and chose SandForce again for their newest drives (530 series). The SandForce drives from others still score well in consistency benchmarks (whereas something like a speedy Samsung drive may get bigger peak numbers, it will take a performance hit if under constant use or filled too full compared to a SandForce drive), and of course OWC uses SandForce for all of their "premium" and professional drives.

I'm a huge fan of SandForce drives. Their active garbage collection is especially great for ancient systems or operating systems that don't support TRIM.

Also, the new 3rd-generation SandForce chipset was recently announced. Expect the big companies (like Intel) to start using that.

[ajkula66]

Old SandForce drives, especially from terrible companies like OCZ, seemed to scare many people away from SandForce.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with OCZ drives until SF came along. I've deployed dozens of Indilinx-based ones with zero issues.

I'm a huge fan of SandForce drives. Their active garbage collection is especially great for ancient systems or operating systems that don't support TRIM.

I'd question the reliability of the aforementioned garbage collection on systems without AHCI.

Also, the new 3rd-generation SandForce chipset was recently announced. Expect the big companies (like Intel) to start using that.

I'm certain that Intel will jump on that board. With that said, I'll stick to 320 series which were the last one to use Intel's own controller, along with Crucial M4 and Samsung 830/840 Pro...

It's rather obvious that we'll never agree on anything here, so we may as well agree to disagree and leave it at that...

[Cigarguy]

The problem I have with Sandforce is them using consumers as early testers. At least for a year or two. They did this with their early 12XX and 22XX controllers. Finally, mercifully, Sandforce released a firmware update that fixed their buggy controllers.

OCZ was known as a good company until they got into bed early on with Sandforce 22XX controllers which were prone to random BSOD. Of course this affect any other manufacturer who used the same controller. But OCZ was the first out and most aggressive out of the gate with early Sandforce controlled drives. People blame OCZ, Corsair, Patriot, etc for releasing a crappy product and rightfully so but the main problem was with Sandforce and their buggy controllers. For a company like OCZ, their reputation never recovered from this and now they are bankrupt and bought out by Toshiba for a bargain.

Intel, amongst others, learned their lesson after the 12xx debacle and waited until Sandforce fix their buggy 22xx controller, then and only then did they released their Sandforce controlled drives.

As for me, never ever again will I pay for, put my data at risk and suffer the aggravation for the priviledge of being Sandforce's testers. My preference these days is for a non-Sandforce controlled drive. I was an early adopter with an OCZ Vertex 2 (12xx controller) and suffered before Sandforce fixed their firmware. Shame on them. Early adopter with a Corsair Force 3 (22xx controller) and suffered, shame on me. Sandforce 33xx controller? Hopefully I'm not that stupid.

[GACrabill]

Are there any reliable links other than eBay to buy the mSATA to 44pin IDE adapter?

I haven't found any links other than eBay for the ST663FD9 adapter.

The Addonics adapter can be found here :
http://www.shopaddonics.com/itemdesc.as ... DE&eq=&Tp=

[Nameless]

So I do suspect Addonics is a importer of Lycom products. I suspect, Lycom has actual engineers (not marketting lies engineers). I suspect, Lycom has computer and/or electronic engineers, designing/engineering products. But I cannot prove it. I did just one time ask Lycom, whether Addonics is one of their customers. I did not get a reply.

Wow this thread sure got lively since yesterday! Anyway just to shed a little more light, I sent the following email to sales@lycom.com.tw:

I have two Thinkpad T43p laptops that I want to upgrade to SSD, and I found your model number ST-173-9 converter, which would be perfect for me. However, I can not find any place to buy it. I am in the USA. Can you please tell me where I may buy it?

And received the following reply:

Thanks your enquiry.

If 7mm height, please contact http://www.addonics.com/products/adms25ide.php.

Best Regards

LyCOM TECHNOLOGY INC.
6F, NO.1, ALLEY 6, LANE 45, BAOSING RD., SINDIAN, NEW TAIPEI CITY 231, TAIWAN, R.O.C
TEL: 886-2-2910-1628 FAX: 886-2-2915-6951
http://www.lycom.com.tw

Based on this reply, I believe there must be some connection between the two. What exactly that connection is, I dunno. For me it was either that or use the Miranda adapter that other people have reported pin height issues with, so I decided to give Addonics a try. I first tried to buy from Scan in the UK, but their system wouldn't process my order with a US delivery address, and I couldn't reach them by phone to try to place the order over the phone.

They should arrive today and I'll report back what I find. Hopefully it really is just a rebadged Lycom with the Marvell chip. I really want to make SSD work in my T4x machines.

[Cigarguy]

Got a T42 with a 32 GB SSD in the Ultrabay via an IDE to SATA Ultrabay adapter that works good for 32 bit Win 7 and programs. The primary IDE HDD slot is the data drive. ATTO benchmark on the SSD is showing speeds that is as good as I'm going to get on a SATA I interface.

[automobus]

I sent the following email to sales@lycom … And received the following reply

My hero! You squeezed a far-away company and made them talk.

Yes, please do report your thoughts about the part. I look forward to reading it!

[Nameless]

OK so a quick update. I just got the adapters today, have not installed them (no SSDs yet) but I must say build quality is very good. I tried to take pics but my crappy camera wouldn't focus so description will have to do.

No markings on the board indicated being made by Lycom, there were just a couple Addonics stickers, but it did have "Made in Taiwan" silkscreened on the PCB, so maybe they are. I dunno.

I can CONFIRM that this adapter does indeed use the Marvell bridge chip, I removed the PCB from the bracket to confirm this. The Marvell part # is 88SA8052. The following is what's printed on the chip:

[Marvell logo]
88SA8052-NNC2
QAG86312
1318 81P (1318 is probably the date code)
TW (probably Taiwan)

The Marvell web site says it's SATA II (3 Gb/s) to PATA 133, which should be fine as I'm planning to put an Intel 525 or 530 series in these.

This is a 7mm height adapter, and when compared to the 9.5mm drive I pulled out of my T43p of course the pin heights don't match up. I'll report further when I have a chance to actually install it in the machine, which probably won't be until after the holidays. Others in this thread I believe have had success with other 7mm adapters, so hopefully things will go smooth for me.

Hope this helps those interested in this mod.

[GACrabill]

This is a 7mm height adapter, and when compared to the 9.5mm drive I pulled out of my T43p of course the pin heights don't match up. I'll report further when I have a chance to actually install it in the machine, which probably won't be until after the holidays.

It will be interesting to note whether this slight difference in height results in the adapter being easier to install with the laptop "upside-down" or "right-side-up".

We will all be patiently waiting for your next report.

[lord jim]

Excuse me for asking stupid question ( they say there is no stupid questions, but answers might be . . .)

Are we talking about replacing primary HDD or interfacing in ultrabay?.
I would be interested to replace my T43 HDD with SSD and put HDD in ultrabay
thank you for enlightenment

[ajkula66]

Are we talking about replacing primary HDD or interfacing in ultrabay?.

Replacing the primary drive.

I would be interested to replace my T43 HDD with SSD and put HDD in ultrabay.

I highly doubt that T43/p or R52 will play nice with this adapter because of its existing SATA-to-PATA converter chip.

[RealBlackStuff]

The T43/T43p/R52 models with ATI graphics can be converted from PATA/IDE to SATA.
http://theboardroom.info/sata_mod.htm

[gehageh]

Hi,

I am also interested in this solution for my T43. What about this item: mSATA PCI-E SSD to 2.5" 44-pin IDE HDD SSD 5V Card Adapter 9.5mm case ?

many thanks
George

[GACrabill]

I am also interested in this solution for my T43. What about this item: mSATA PCI-E SSD to 2.5" 44-pin IDE HDD SSD 5V Card Adapter 9.5mm case

You do not want that item ... it has the old Jmicron JM20330 chip which was known to have problems.

The Minerva “ST663FD9" or the Lycom "ST-173-7" adapters described previously in this thread would be better choices.

BUT, the real issue for you is that the T43 is not a "normal" IDE/PATA connection for the HDD. The experts at this forum have always been concerned that the Sata-to-IDE converter mechanism inside the T43 might have problems when connected to an IDE-to-Sata (or IDE-to-microSata, or IDE-to-mSata) converter. Therefore, they have always recommended the "Sata mod" for T43 models and a normal 2.5" Sata SSD.

I cannot remember reading of anyone's positive or negative experiences when trying to use an IDE-to-? adapter with a T43. If I had a T43, I would spend some time reading about the T43 Sata mod.

Good Luck.