New SSD opt. for T4x : mSATA-to-IDE adapter ST663FD9 *PICS*

[Recife]

Also can anyone recomend a good msata to sata, 2.5 adapter?

[GACrabill]

Also can anyone recomend a good msata to sata, 2.5 adapter?

From post #1 of this thread, the “AD963FD9 SATA-III to mSATA 6Gb/s SSD converter adapter with 2.5 case” works fine .... there are many less expensive options from eBay sellers in China.

Lycom also has an option (ST-168mL) : http://www.computex.biz/lycom/default.a ... troduction
.... but Lycom products are hard to find.

[automobus]

Also can anyone recomend a good msata to sata, 2.5 adapter?

I do recommend Dell part number (DP/N) 86MKK.

[felix_w]

@Johan

I have received the Lycom 44pin-to-msata adapter (137-7), still i haven't received any of the two adapters i ordered to use in the controller transplant. I also ordered a Hot Air Station, but still waiting for it to arrive.

When all the parts get here i may use an 850 Evo msata with the Lycom Adapter and then compare its results to the ones of the mutant adapter with the 850 Pro (if i succeed with the adapter).

[mgutt]

Windows 8.1, Crucial 120GB SSD (with SATA to PATA adapter):

I bought the Delock Adapter and a Plextor M6M. Its much faster than before, but not as fast as Xenomorphs Setup in writing:
http://www.maxrev.de/delock-msata-ide-a ... 351152.htm


I'm having a total different PC, but I like to know what the reason could be. Adapter, SSD, CPU...?

[ac12]

I used an Aleratec mSATA to IDE/PATA adapter in my T23 and it works just fine.
I test it initially with a Samsung 32GB mSATA SSD (which I later moved to a Dell C400), then installed a Visiontek 120GB SSD (which is in the T23 right now). See the following post.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 39#p754630

Interestingly, the Aleratec adapter was not even recognized by the BIOS in my Dell C400. In the Dell C400, I used a no-name Chinese mSATA to IDE adapter (off eBay) that uses the JMicron JM20330 chip. And it has worked just fine...so far. I have the Samsung 32GB mSATA SSD on it. Even the drive LED on the C400 lights up when the SSD is accessed.

I did not try to see if the Chinese mSATA to IDE adapter would work in the T23. At that point the T23 was running with the Aleratec adapter and 120GB SSD, so I saw no need to fuss with it and a new adapter/SSD and go through the XP install all over again. At that point, I wanted to get the Dell C400 converted to SSD, so that my wife could use it, instead of the heavier T23 that she was using. But "first come, first served," and she decided to keep the heavier T23.

[automobus]

Thank you, ac12, for reporting your use experience. Your case of JM20330 working where 88SA8052 works-not, gives me added confidence in my belief: No ATA-ATA translator bridge chip is perfect. I will now spew commentary over two recent bridges available from China off fleaBay.

Lately, two modular bride boards are available from China off eBay: N-1801 (1.8-inch) and N-2507I (2.5-inch), to replace 44-pin PATA drive. ac12 uses N-2507I in C400. I suspect one manufacturer, one factory, produces both models. I do not know what madel name or number is 'official'. "N-1801" and "N-2507I" are text in copper, found at one corner of board.

At first thought, using JM20330 makes me feel uneasy, but to be fair: it works for many people. No one bridge chip is 'the very best', it seems incompatible host+drive combinations can be found for each chip. Other bridge chip vendors do not 'stand on higher ground' by distributing datasheet to public: JMicron is as mysterious/secretive as the rest. I do wonder why we still see JM20330 in new parts: was it not replaced by JMD330, JMH330, JMH330S? I suspect, it might be cheaper for integrators to buy JM20330 in bulk (one chip for all models), than to buy two or three different bridge chips.

Both models have:

• STMicroelectronics voltage regulator
• retention-standoff holes for JEDEC MO-300A and MO-300B mini-SATA modules ('full' and 'half' length)
• 'can-shaped' capacitor, larger and likely better, than a 'tiny black SMD square'
• white plastic shell/case/top/cover

I learned from experience, not to trust tiny voltage regulators in these kinds of simple little parts. It pleases me to see STMicroelectronics logo (though it might be counterfeit), on a not-so-tiny part. It is a linear regulator, which is not power efficient compared to a switching regulator. For those seeking "low power solid state ATA", choose CompactFlash.

N-2507I features:

• board bottom side is silkscreened white
• PATA pins are taped-over (insulation to prevent electrical short)

N-1801 features:

• a switch to select input voltage (straight 3.3 volt, or send 5 volt to VR), which is clearly labelled in silkscreened text

A logo "NF" in circle is in copper, topside of N-1801. That voltage selection switch is a nice touch. It should provide nicer experience to user than a tiny pin jumper/shunt, or requiring user to place a blob of solder.

These two models look like 'good buys'. Though they are mystery anonymous electronics, it is evident that somebody put thought into them. The STMicro regulator, capacitor, and voltage selection switch add expense to product. This is clearly superior to a product which requires installer to own soldering iron.

I am done playing with ATA-ATA translator bridges. If I must buy something of the sort for X40 (SFF-8111), then I would be willing to try this N-1801.



edit 2015-10-08 add: gdemonta provided a user report of N-1801.

edit 2016-03-07 correct: dandreye reports model number in copper is actually N-2507I, not N-25071.

[MrMaguire]

I meant only capable of ATA100, versus ATA133. But ICH6-M is also natively capable of SATA 1 (150MB/s) for those of us who have the chance to have a motherboard featuring it. There is no Dell M70 SATA mod that I know of.

Can also get a SATA caddy for modular bay though (which I have somewhere).
Same caddy is apparently used for all Latitude D-series so it may be using an actual SATA connection rather than a second bridge. An Amazon review from someone with a D610 claimed to see 150MB/sec burst in benchmarks.

EDIT: Also note the Precision M70 and Latitude D810 (and probably D610) also use the Marvel 88SA8040 IDE-SATA bridge for the internal drive.

The D-Bay on the D-series Latitudes are IDE. All of those 3rd party SATA caddies use a bridge chip.

A few years ago, I asked and Bibin said he'd SATA-modded a D610, but I'm not sure if anyone has tried the other models. In theory at least it should be much the same process across all the Intel 915 based laptops.

[Hunters]

Hi. I am trying this. I am using the Addonics adapter

http://www.shopaddonics.com/itemdesc.as ... DE&eq=&Tp=

because I don't have to wait a month for it to arrive from China and because it's not JM20330. With that I am using the Mushkin Atlas 120GB,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820226320

I'm trying this because Xenomorph says the SandForce 2281 has good garbage collection. Considered the much more expensive Intel 525 (same controller, same size), which I could use Intel's TRIM toolbox with, but unsure. Maybe I will even try using it anyway (though I'm sure it won't work). I will monitor results over time. Speaking of TRIM, XP.

Oh, and my laptop is a Compaq Presario 900 (2002). I am using a Samsung HM080GC 80GB disk right now, which was noted at notebookreview to be the fastest 2.5" ATA drive. Its potential goes up to 60MB/s, which of course somehow becomes in my case 38MB read/18MB write according to Crystal. How about that.

So I have very conservative expectations on speed. Theoretical anywhere from 80-110MB/s, in reality... I would be happy with the 60MB/s the mechanical drive promised!

Will post benchmarks later. I just ordered the parts, so it will be a while.

Here's what I have to deal with now:



Why do I have a feeling my new 550MB/s disk is going to run at 30MB/s...

[felix_w]

Why do I have a feeling my new 550MB/s disk is going to run at 30MB/s...

Hello,

I don't know if the same thing is responsible for your questions, but i suggest you to take a look at the problem i had with my first IDE SSD. Back then, had just purchased my Photofast IDE 2.5" V2 with Indilinx Controller and i had the problem described here

It appeared to be a driver installation issue or something like that from the original OS restore cd's that came with my laptop. Read the details to see if the same solution can be applied to your problem.

Apart from the above issues, i believe that the ALi chipset that your Compaq appears to have, will not help much with the SSD's performance reaching the Intel's southbridge levels, but should be quite good for you to enjoy your machine without the sluggishness caused by your HDD.

[Hunters]

Well, my worst fears have been realized.



The new disk. I cloned my drive.

As we can see, its potential probably lies somewhere around 76MB/s which is already about the worst number seen yet, but I only see around 34MB/s of it.

So, I was convinced I must have done something horribly wrong and I wiped the disk, and installed windows XP, nothing else, no patches, nothing. Same exact result.

The disk likes to get detected as UDMA2, which tops out around 22MB/s. I can manually set that to UDMA5 in the bios, and I wish I could explain why I've had to do that twice and suspect will have to do it repeatedly as long as I have this hardware.



Here is Crystal on the new disk, Mushkin Atlas 550MB/s in UDMA5. So...

I'm thinking I will reclone my actual data, then maybe fool around with my controller in desperation. I know I was doing this years earlier to get the Samsung HM080GC to stay at 60MB/s and I got some results by misrepresenting drivers, using a SCSI version. But for whatever reasons the results were inconsistent, or temporary and then I'd settle back down to the 35MB/s on a good day.

- - -

Update: I have made a mystifying discovery. Apparently, my disk dramatically increases in speed when it's in use, or something? Observe:

The following graph, 34MB/s. Then, on the graph, when I start a large program (Spybot) I'm suddenly getting 85MB/s! Is that some kind of...I don't even know. I don't get it. Does that mean I am getting the performance or only in certain types of situations?



You would think the benchmark itself would be the load to show throughput.

[lukee]

Thanks for this nice thread. I have T43p where I do not want to go with the SATA-mod and I am looking for a new HDD. This solution seems to be interesting but I am getting lost in the information about adapters. I do understand that SandForce SSD models have some garbage collection right bulit-in so it is compensating disabled TRIM a bit, right?
About adapter/caddy, somebody tested this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PA ... 4ae19c4682

Is the HDD activity LED working then? Am I going to have a luck with Plextor M6M 128GB mSATA?
Is the Kouwell ST-173-7 going to work with the Plextor SSD?

Thanks.

[ajkula66]

I do understand that SandForce SSD models have some garbage collection right bulit-in so it is compensating disabled TRIM a bit, right?

Stay away from *anything* SandForce-based.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PA ... 4ae19c4682

Is the HDD activity LED working then? Am I going to have a luck with Plextor M6M 128GB mSATA?
Is the Kouwell ST-173-7 going to work with the Plextor SSD?

Thanks.

Plextor M6M is a fine SSD, I've used it in *20 series ThinkPads and was very pleased. Obviously, YMMV.

While the adapter + mSATA SSD is a great combo for the units preceding T43/p, you're going to run into issues one way or another. There is no way that you'll ever get anywhere close to performance of a SATA-modded unit with two converters "kicking" one another.

My opinion: not worth it. Whatsoever. Go SATA or stick with a spinner.

Good luck.

[automobus]

>lukee
>garbage collection built-in so it is compensating disabled TRIM a bit, right?

Wrong. Virtually every storage system, where NAND is backing store to replace disc of sector size 512 octet (a.k.a. 'solid state disc'), features 'garbage collection'. In today's market space of consumer/'enthusiast consumer' storage, 'garbage collection' is, for the most part, marketing B.S.

So far, a person who uses SandForce, is a person 'asking for data loss'. Since SandForce was acquired by Seagate, products might have improved in quality and dependability. Who knows? I do not.

>lukee
>About adapter/caddy, somebody tested this one? eBay item 321612695170

You point to a listing with no information suitable to identify model. Only one picture, of product underside. A wise shopper does not depend solely on one picture, because ey might receive a completely different item than what was pictured. Though, 321612695170 looks like 'N-2507I', which ac12 is using successfully.

>lukee
>Am I going to have a luck with Plextor M6M 128GB mSATA?

Probably, in Ultrabay Slim bay. But I discourage you from using a bridged storage solution in HDD bay: there will then be two bridges between host and disc.

edit 2016-03-07 correct N-2507I (was N-25071)

[lukee]

I know I would not get over 80-90MB/s with non SATA-modded T43p, even in Ultrabay adapter. As T43p deploys SATA 1 on chipset level (max. 150MB/s theoretically), performance gain seems to be best for seq. read/write which is being typical for copying of large files. For 512k/4k operation modes which represents normal applications operation best, there is still huge improvement against a spinner (20-25x faster). Another chapter is access time as well. So as T43p does not provide ideal foundation to run SSD efficiently, even so performance gain seems to be excellent. Question is, to which specific troubles I may get with 2x SATA chip bridges on one bus? I know there is the TRIM command translation problem so the OS must be configured with TRIM disabled, but are there any other troubles to expect? Thanks.

[ajkula66]

Question is, to which specific troubles I may get with 2x SATA chip bridges on one bus? I know there is the TRIM command translation problem so the OS must be configured with TRIM disabled, but are there any other troubles to expect? Thanks.

Intermittent freezing.

Generally "sluggish" feel of the system on temporary or permanent basis.

Honestly, I believe that those who got the mSATA+adapter combo to work in their T43 systems reasonably well within their expectations were lucky more than anything else.

My experiences only.

[shicky256]

I updated my setup from a T41 to a T43 a couple months ago (I spotted a T43 listed as "for parts" on eBay for $25 shipped that works fine). I haven't experienced any of the problems that ajkula66 said may happen on a T43 with mSATA SSD, except that I just didn't enable "discard" during the Debian setup process because the SATA>PATA chip in the laptop doesn't pass that command to the drive. There's no intermittent freezing, and the machine definitely feels way less sluggish than it did with a 5400 rpm hard drive.

[Hans Gruber]

Here is what I am looking at for a T43p solution using an MSATA drive. I know the T43p is only a PATA adapter and I think 100mb's. The T43 is ATA-6. I think the only reason for using an SSD is for the sound of silence as well as better battery life.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PA ... 23474b07db

I have a real T43p coming in the mail in a few days.

[GACrabill]

Here is what I am looking at for a T43p solution using an MSATA drive. I know the T43p is only a PATA adapter and I think 100mb's. The T43 is ATA-6. I think the only reason for using an SSD is for the sound of silence as well as better battery life.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PA ... 23474b07db

I have a real T43p coming in the mail in a few days.

You will not be happy with that adapter :
- it uses the old JM20330 chipset instead of the newer JMH330
- the T43 and R52 models use a sata/pata bridge chip on the motherboard that invariably fails to work properly with the pata/msata adapter in an msata-to-pata mechanism

You may need to read this whole thread to find the various attempts at making a T43 work with an msata SSD.

I believe that there were a couple of successes by disabling Trim in Win7 before cloning the HDD to the msata SSD. Then you will need to hopefully find an msata SSD with aggressive garbage collection since you won't be using Win7 trim.

There were also suggestions that the best hope for success with a T43/R52 (and using Win7 w/ Trim enabled) was with one of the various brands of the Lycom/Addonics adapter which uses a Marvell chipset rather than the inferior JMicron chipset. The suggestion also specified using an msata SSD with a Marvell controller .... the hope being that the Marvell bridge chip on the motherboard, the Marvell chip in the Lycom adapter, and the Marvell controller in the msata SSD would all work well together with no problems (especially with Trim).

I don't remember a lot of T43 success stories in this thread.

Good luck.

[ajkula66]

I don't remember a lot of T43 success stories in this thread.

Because they simply weren't there... ...it's amazing to me how small of a value people put on their own time, but that's a whole another subject...

T43/p was a finicky little thing since the day of its release...which is why I've been saying "SATA mod or bust" to anyone who was willing to listen for years now...

[Hans Gruber]

I don't remember a lot of T43 success stories in this thread.

Because they simply weren't there... ...it's amazing to me how small of a value people put on their own time, but that's a whole another subject...

T43/p was a finicky little thing since the day of its release...which is why I've been saying "SATA mod or bust" to anyone who was willing to listen for years now...

Add to it that the T43 has a SATA 1 internally modified to a ATA 6 IDE connection. That is what causes the 2010 message. IBM created firmware so that those non linear controllers could pass data through the hard drive. That is why the T42 doesn't have a problem with HDD or the latter T60 series. I think it was a motherboard issue with hard drive interfaces being phased out with the SATA 1 being the new standard. The T43 was using both new and old hardware that was not congruent with each other.

The PATA as it's known in 3.5" form and (T43) ATA 6 in laptop 2.5" drives has a maximum bandwidth of 100mb transfer speed. The Ultra PATA has a transfer speed of 133mb per second. SATA 1 is 150mb per second.

[ajkula66]

SATA 1 is 150mb per second.

Which is *exactly* what a SATA-mod unleashes out of the ancient T43/p...about 30-35% higher sequential transfers than one is able to achieve with a mSATA + adapter in a T42/p and its older cousins...

I've personally hit 133/131 read/write on an Intel's 64GB version of X25-E.

[GACrabill]

SATA 1 is 150mb per second.

Which is *exactly* what a SATA-mod unleashes out of the ancient T43/p...about 30-35% higher sequential transfers than one is able to achieve with a mSATA + adapter in a T42/p and its older cousins...

... at a SATA-mod cost of 2-4 times what you paid for the T43.

You should have bought a T60 instead of a T43.

[ajkula66]

... at a SATA-mod cost of 2-4 times what you paid for the T43.

You should have bought a T60 instead of a T43.

Heh. No.

The charm of T43 - and T4x series in general - is something that the later models sorely lack IMO. And there's something to be said about pushing the concept to its limits. I've done everything and anything to my T43p units that their chassis/platform could possibly swallow over the past several years - happily so - and couldn't care less about the cost. I earn my money elsewhere.

T60 is a fine system, but I've never developed an emotional bond with it the way I have with - first and foremost - A31p and then T43p.

Obviously, to each their own...but to me personally, just typing on the T4x keyboard with no "windows" key is an extremely gratifying experience.

[GACrabill]

... at a SATA-mod cost of 2-4 times what you paid for the T43.

You should have bought a T60 instead of a T43.

Heh. No.

The charm of T43 - and T4x series in general - is something that the later models sorely lack IMO. And there's something to be said about pushing the concept to its limits. I've done everything and anything to my T43p units that their chassis/platform could possibly swallow over the past several years - happily so - and couldn't care less about the cost. I earn my money elsewhere.

T60 is a fine system, but I've never developed an emotional bond with it the way I have with - first and foremost - A31p and then T43p.

Obviously, to each their own...but to me personally, just typing on the T4x keyboard with no "windows" key is an extremely gratifying experience.

Sorry George, my comment was directed at Hans Gruber.

At today's prices, buying a single core T43, a SATA-mod, and an SSD is more expensive than buying a 15" dual core T60 Flexview plus an SSD.

IMHO, there is no good reason to buy a T43 today and upgrade it when for just a few dollars more you could buy a T60 and have a much better laptop.

Of course if someone likes single core laptops when using today's websites .... that's beyond my comprehension. I still use my T40p regularly but it pales in comparison to my T60.

[dalmolin]

Reporting success on IBM T42p running Linux Mint 17 and Samsung EVO 850, 250MB with the following adapter:
http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00TX3ZCNK/ref=FR_TE_3p_dp_1

Will have to mod the little hard disk enclosure plastic cover to shorten it .... should be no problem as the SSD+adapter are fully inside the case. Haven't done speed test yet... but booting all the way to the user UI is 37 sec vs 1 minute 20 sec. ... and very quiet ... will be interesting to see if it helps with battery life etc. My T42p (bought just as Lenovo was taking over the IBM pc biz) is 10 yrs. old this Fall... so far replaced the fan and batteries, added memory.

[automobus]

Thank you for sharing your experience, dalmolin. If you did not already know, Samsung SSD circuit boards are usually only as large as necessary, not so large to entirely fill plastic housing. So rather than irreversibly modify parts, you might consider installing SSD board without its casing/skin.

Your adapter board contains JMicron JM20330, correct?

[felix_w]

After some time waiting for parts, found some spare time and used a microsatacables msata-to-sata adapter to use my Lycom IDE-to-msata adapter

The original plan was to find a 88SA8052 chip and try to mod a normal JM20330 adapter (since i believe that they are pin-compatible). Tired of searching for parts so, instead i used the msata-to-sata adapter.

I used the same OCZ Vertex Turbo SSD, so as the results could be directly comparable.

The Marvell 88SA8052 seems to have higher Sequential speeds, though the Random writes are somewhat lower than my JM20330 bench.

Marvell 88SA8052 result :

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh20 ... g~original

JMicron JM20330 result :

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh20 ... g~original

I will use the Lycom adapter with a Samsung 850 EVO 250GB msata that i will get (maybe in September)

[Hans Gruber]

You should have bought a T60 instead of a T43.

I didn't buy a T60 but I did buy a T61 to go along with the T43p that I picked up. Once I get the T43p right, I am done with that series. Here is what I am looking at. http://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PA ... 23474b07db

I will use a msata 128GB SSD drive. My questions is if the PATA connection on the T43 is ATA-100 or ATA-133. I assume it's a 100mb bus after seeing benchmarks with the conversion kits.

My current Seagate 7200RPM drive is reading and writing @ 39mb. It looks like reads and writes at 90mb are what people have been achieving with the conversion kits.

[GACrabill]

Once I get the T43p right, I am done with that series. Here is what I am looking at. http://www.ebay.com/itm/mSATA-to-2-5-PA ... 23474b07db

I will use a msata 128GB SSD drive. My questions is if the PATA connection on the T43 is ATA-100 or ATA-133. I assume it's a 100mb bus after seeing benchmarks with the conversion kits.

Please re-read this post in this thread :
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p760441

I can almost guarantee that the adapter that you are considering will not work in your T43 if you are planning to run an operating system which uses TRIM.

If you are planning to run with TRIM disabled, then you should look for a better adapter than one which contains the JM20330 chip.