Apples to Apples?? This is kiling me...

[revolutionary_one]

Ok, so recently ive heard that the model of the t42 i want to purchase will be no longer offered after may 31st according to a reference in TABOOK. So its crunch time for me, and the decision needs to be made by friday of this week.

Specs on the t42 2378-fvu [Thinkexpress]
-Proc -- 1.7Ghz Pentium M 735
-Mem -- 256MB pc 2700 1 so-dimm [WILL be upgraded with crucial 512 or 1gb stick]
-Hdd -- 40GB 5400rpm
-Optical -- DVD-ROM/CD-RW combo
-Vid -- ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 [64MB]
-Net -- ipw2200, winmodem, Gb eth
-Screen -- 14.1inch TFT SXGA+
-Batt -- 6-cell
-Warranty -- 3 years warranty upgrade, Depot, with 3 years Thinkpad Protection
-Price -- ~$1700.00, free shipping, before taxes

orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....

ASUS Z71V
-Proc --1.86Ghz Pentium M [Sonoma @ 533Mhz FSB]
-Mem -- 1024MB DDR2
-HDD -- 60GB SATA, 7200RPM
-Optical -- 8X DVD+-RW Dual Layer
-Vid -- Geforce 6600 GO 128MB DDR3
-Net -- Intel ABG wireless, Gb eth
-Batt -- 9-cell
-Screen -- 15.4inch WideScreen TFT WSXGA+
-Warranty -- 3 Year Warranty
-Price -- ~$1700.00, rough estimate, no idea about shipping or taxes...


-Main considerations
-Warranty -- Asus vs. IBM, This is essentiall the kicker in the transaction, I KNOW IBM has better tech support and TPP is REALLY nice thing to have. But do I REALLY need it if its just going to be from school to home everyday. Hell, ill prolly go with IBM just on this issue alone.

-Heat -- Honestly, the heat dissapation from other people using the ASUS and reporting back is pretty good, about 2-3hours comfortably. While i KNOW i could be gaming on the Thinkpad for a good 2-3 hours before i felt the slightest.

-Weight -- I know the ASUS is gonna be atleast a pound more, while the Thinkpad weighs in at 4.9. I'm not sure whether I should bother with this, I throw around 50 pound boxes at my job all night

-Price -- I'm not sure, but the Thinkpad looks to be a bit on the expensive side for what im getting. Should I just hold out till August-November when I REALLY need this Thinkpad. Will prices be cheaper then?

-Re-Sale -- If 5-6 months from May-June purchase i decide to get rid of this Thinkpad [biiggg IF there], what kinda resale can i expect, with a few upgrades, id like to get ~ $1500.00, is that feasible??

I need some guidance. I don't NEED this laptop, but I WILL, does that really justify me buying it prematurely. And since warranty really plays a big part into this scenario, does anyone have experience with ASUS warranty or ASUS distrib warranties. This is my first laptop purchase, and I'd really appreciate the input. Thank You VERY very much.

[mad_medic77]

Hi revolutionary_one,

I'll be trying to help a little on that topic.

1. Warranty: You'd like to have a good warranty on your machine, anyhow. You'll never know what will or won't happen. IBM is known for providing a very good warranty. Asus the same. I've read a big report in a german computer magazine called c't about notebook warrantys and customer satisfaction. Asus and IBM were always on top of the line. Plus you've got three years on both machines, so there shouldn't be an issue with either one.

2. Heat: I've got a T41p and I can tell, that heat dissapation isn't a big issue.
I can't say anything about the asus.

3. Weight: It depends, what you're gonna do with it. If you're carrying it around a lot, you'll notice every pound over the time, trust me. If it's gonna be barely moved and used mainly as a desktop replacement, I wouldn't bother about the weight. I've seen that the asus weights 6,5 pounds. So that's your call.

4. Price: Thinkpads have always been pricey compared to other notebooks. That's because it's designed to serve as a business work horse. Solid and reliable. No one can predict how the prices will be in half a year from now. Plus we still have to wait how the switch to Lenovo is gonna work out. You'll always get something better half a year later, and definitely more for the money that's computer business.

5. Resale: Thinkpads have always had a good resale value, that's because of the earlier described attitudes. Build like a tank. I don't know if you'll be likely to get $ 1500, but it's possible.

Here are links to some Z71V reviews:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2346
http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=74877
http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=76560

To conclude everything.

If you don't need the notebook now, wait half a year. You'll always get something better then. If your gut tells you to do it now, ask yourself what you're gonna do with it.
If you're rather a gamer, there are better notebooks to go. But between those two, take the asus. It has a faster processor, a better graphics card, more RAM, the faster hard drive and a bigger, better screen.
If you want a lightweight workhorse, get the thinkpad. You'll be able to play games with it, but not the most actual ones at a decent speed. It has not been designed for that.

I hope this helps you a little.

regards,

mad_medic77

[aamsel]

Service and support are going to be far better with the IBM.

Traditionally, Thinkpad T Series have the best resale in the industry with the exception of Apple.

Get the Thinkpad.
It is a much more solid choice.

Andrew
Austin, TX

[revolutionary_one]

Hmm, yea, obviously I asked in a biased place. But otherwise, I'm not sure whether i should trade up on peace of mind / security for better hardware. I mean i dont even NEED that kinda hardware. But longevity is the name of the game right.

Either i get longevity in usability with the Asus, or longevity in stability and build quality of both [w/ exceptonal IBM warranty along the way for the thinkpad]. I'm still bumfuzzled. By the way, can anyone confirm that IBM / Lenovo is going to progressively do away with the 2378-fvu next month.

My main reason for getting that model is because it has the 9600 ATi Mobility Radeon. Which in my opinion, seems to get better performance than the x300.

I need some of the top notch advice here folks, this is huge. Heh.

[JaneL]

the decision needs to be made by friday of this week.

Buy the ASUS. It's the one you think you want.

[revolutionary_one]

Haha, I only say that b/c I looked at TABOOK, and it seems that there will be no more 2378-fvu. Otherwise, I'm pretty much leaning towards IBM....its not going be a desktop REPLACEMENT, and its not going be a gaming machine either. But for a mobile solution that needs to last me ATLEAST 5 years, IBM fits the shoe pretty well.

I dooo have 30 days to decide, and if i find a cheaper model [during the summer pre-going off to college sale ????] I can always return it and get another cheaper model with comparable specs.

I've have seen the benchmarks (but not in action), but the performance of the x300 doesnt seems to stack up to the 9600. This along with the warranty is the major aspect of the purchase requirement.

hmm...

[LewB]

Actually you have almost 60 days to decide!! You have 30 days from the invoice date to call and ask for return information. An RMA like number and address will be provided. The unit itself does not physically have to be at the North Carolina warehouse until 30 days after the first 30 day deadline. Of course you have to allow time for delivery so give or take a week you still have 53 days from invoice date to decide. The important point if remotely considering a return is to get the return information before the first 30 day deadline.

[revolutionary_one]

Hmm, so I would have to pay for shipping back to IBM if i decided against the machine? Restocking fee?

Seems this is where IBM wins. IBM takes care of shipping [next day UPS / Fedex] in most cases, whereas, the distributor with Asus will only pay for warranty related issues and only cover 2nd day returns. I'd save all that money in service ALONE.

[aamsel]

...I've have seen the benchmarks (but not in action), but the performance of the x300 doesnt seems to stack up to the 9600. This along with the warranty is the major aspect of the purchase requirement...hmm...

I started out feeling that way when I got my T43, focusing on the negatives.
The negatives of the T43 were: x300 a hair slower than the 9600, a little hotter, a little more fan noise, a little less battery life.
However, the positives of the T43 are: Slightly faster CPU, faster memory, PCI-X slot for time when needed, better resale (it will be a newer model than the T42).

The BIG deal to me turned out to be the Hydis display that I got on my CTO T43. It is a little brigher than the Samsung on the 2378FVU, and is more viewable in sunlight. Slightly better viewing angles also.
I have seen the Flexview, Samsung, and to me, the Hydis 14.1" panel is the best SXGA+ panel that is available currently on a Thinkpad.
You are not guaranteed a Hydis on a T43 but you can not get one at all on a T42.

...Hmm, so I would have to pay for shipping back to IBM if i decided against the machine? Restocking fee?...

You would have to pay shipping back to IBM. FEDEX Ground is about $15. If you ever do ship one back, be sure to insure for full value, not the $100 default value. No restocking fee.

... I'd save all that money in service ALONE.

One of the two BIG reasons that people here buy Thinkpads:
Superb quality and great service.

You can't buy a better built notebook, with the possible exception of Apple (which I don't want).
Thinkpads will not be the "bleeding-edge" level of Technology. They are beautifully-built notebooks with business in mind.
Reliability and dependability are the goal.
The service is second-to-none (again, with possible exception of Apple).

Absolutely huge reasons to go with Thinkpad until the time that something changes, which hopefully will not happen anytime soon.

THERE IS NO COMPARISON OF A THINKPAD TO AN ASUS NOTEBOOK.

(Yes, I have seen and compared several ASUS notebooks, and yes, I have owned and liked several ASUS desktop motherboards. I currently run a P4C800-E Deluxe which has been superb.)

The ASUS products are fine products, but they don't approach Thinkpad quality and don't have anything resembling Thinkpad service.

Andrew
Austin, TX

[vliou]

Well, to be honest...

I had an ASUS S1N laptop...had it for two years, and now i'm so freakin glad i switched to the T-series.

My problems with the S1N Laptop was the fact that ASUS stated a 4-5 hr battery life, i got 2.5...
-the fan-oh, don't even get me started. Yes, it was quiet, but it felt like it was missing some screws...sounded like a feather was stuck in the fan...ugh, when i opened it, there was nothing...

-the thing looks solid, and feels solid, until you drop it. One day, just out of nowhere, the [censored] thing wouldn't boot up. I brought it to an ASP, and they told me the screws had naturally gotten loose (SO THE MACHINE WOULDN'T start)...

And btw, the stupid ASUS lids are very prone to scratching.
-----

On the other note, My t-series. Dropped it from 6", got a VERY small crack in a corner, got it fixed the other day. In-call support. Fan is DEAD quiet (even though it is almost always on when it's plugged in). T42 feels solid, looks business like, and I love it. The port replicator is the best thing ever made to man, and you will NEVER go wrong with IBM. I complained that the batt I got lost 0.2whr on the 10th charge. They sent me a new one, no questions asked, and i got to keep the old one.

IBM = International Business Machines.
They last.forever.

Spaceshuttle, trip to himalayans, etc etc. It's a proven machine.

[BillMorrow]

Actually you have almost 60 days to decide!! You have 30 days from the invoice date to call and ask for return information. An RMA like number and address will be provided. The unit itself does not physically have to be at the North Carolina warehouse until 30 days after the first 30 day deadline. Of course you have to allow time for delivery so give or take a week you still have 53 days from invoice date to decide. The important point if remotely considering a return is to get the return information before the first 30 day deadline.

WRONG..!!

30 days from invoice date to get an RMA and 10 days to have it back in NC..

[revolutionary_one]

Heh. Hey Bill, your up late

[LewB]

WRONG..!!


30 days from invoice date to get an RMA and 10 days to have it back in NC..
_________________
Bill Morrow

I had called for a RMA number and asked when the unit had to physically be in NC. The agent said 30 days after the first 30 day deadline and gave me the exact day, 60 days from invoice without any prompting on my part. At the time I was unaware of the 10 day deadline. I guess the agent therefore can extend the "second" deadline either by request or otherwise. Maybe I was just lucky.

[jmt]

"WRONG..!!

30 days from invoice date to get an RMA and 10 days to have it back in NC.."

The above is the policy. If you did not get your extended return terms in writing. Should you decide to return your Thaikpad past 30 days, I'm afraid you will be in for a very rude awakening.

[aamsel]

Actually, that is not correct.
You do have 30 days to return an RMA from the date that you get the RMA.
If you get the RMA 30 days from invoice, then you do have a total of 60 days.

However....
1.) they tell you 10 days
2.) the email they send you says 10 days.

Why...

Don't know the real reason.

But, what the CSR told me is:
1.) They would LIKE to have them back in 10 days.
2.) They don't want an open-ended offer to return a unit.
3.) They realize that some people will not get them back in the original time frame given.
4.) Since a huge amount of their business is with businesses, they probably realize that some businesses can take extra time to get items shipped...red tape, forms to fill out, right department, etc.

So...it really is 30 days, but it is unwritten.
10 days is the "desired" period, and after 30 days, you have no options left.

However, the CSR that gave me the "30 day quote" gave me their name, extention, and email address, so I would be covered if I chose to do it.

If you do decide to use the extended return period (beyond 10 days from date of RMA issue) I suggest that you do get the CSR's name, extention and email address, should there be any question.

Also, I called back and got a second CSR, and they told me the same thing...30 days. They won't put it in writing, but it is the policy.

Why they choose to do that, I don't know.
I did let Bill know that this was the case.

Andrew
Austin, TX

[LewB]

Actually, that is not correct.
You do have 30 days to return an RMA from the date that you get the RMA.
If you get the RMA 30 days from invoice, then you do have a total of 60 days. ..........

Why they choose to do that, I don't know.
I did let Bill know that this was the case.

Thanks for this additional information. I thought I had it right but Bill's post made me wonder.

[emorphien]

You can't buy a better built notebook, with the possible exception of Apple (which I don't want).

¿que? The iBook is fairly well built, but it doesn't stack up to a Thinkpad. The powerbooks have been trouble since the Titanium models, although the Aluminum ones are much better they're far from durable. They do have an excellent fit and finish, one of if not the best. But its mostly looks and little substance unfortunately with the powerbooks.

[aamsel]

No risk of me buying one any time soon.
However, I have read many, many places that the Apple quality and service are very good, and many reviews put them on par with Thinkpad.

Andrew
Austin, TX

...But its mostly looks and little substance unfortunately with the powerbooks.

[emorphien]

Well yeah the quality is good, depending on how you look at it, but the durability isn't. I've spent a fair amount of time fixing some of them, they definitely could do more to make the things more resilient. A lot of the reviews won't tell you the iBook is tougher than the Powerbook, so I tend to just ignore most of them anyway

[UCI2CI]

Ill make it easy for you.

- Accidental protection is a must have (if you can get it). Check to see if Asus offers a protection plan. If you hall you notebook to school, i can see this scenario happening (ima get Fire Marshal Bill on you for a second ) :
your notebook is running low on battery so you decide to plug it into a wall outlet in the lecture hall. A student walks by and trips on you power cord, pulling your laptop off your lap and onto the ground, beaking your LCD. HAHA, it could happen.

-check with your school. IBM gives educational discounts. I doubt Asus does that.

- IBM support is world famous. Depot repair turnaround times are very FAST

-Thinkpads are super sexy. Business black, thin and light. Try taking one of those Acer Ferrari's ("streetwalker red" color) to you workplace. Although the Asus notebooks dont look bad at all.

- Thinkpads comes with great software that is updated regularly.

- Ultranav gives you both a touchpad and an track point pointing device.

- Youll love the pre-desktop Rescue and Recovery OS when you system crashes.

- Thinkpds are built like a tank. Magnesium body. no squeaky hinges. I love the bare metal hinges on these machine. dont you guys?

- Asus without the "U" spells [censored].

- Hey, arent you going to college anyways. you wont have time for games!!!

Go with the IBM

As far as getting an Apple computer, you would have to want MacOS/Unix/Linux. If your a Windows guy, then i dont see the point in buying an Apple. Also, i think Apple charges for telephone support, but i might be wrong.

Oh and as far as the talk about the returns. I would follow whats on paper. Calling reps is like flipping coins. youll get different answers every time. But when the poop hits the fan, its what is written that counts. If it says 10 days after RMA, then thats when they want it back.

[revolutionary_one]

Yea, I've decided on the 2378-FVU, I just need to the price i was given earlier...~$1,761.00. includes 3 year TPP and Warranty Upgrade Depot

i spent half an hour with a supervisor, telling me the best they could offer on the express model was 5%. So i didn't get that price in the end. but i work for UPS and ill see if i still have a hat trick up my sleeve, or if i can do better, b/c its essentially EPP.

Anyone here also work for UPS, and have aquired an EPP discount that way?
I wonder if i can get an even BETTER deal than that price right there.