Quieter Hard Drive options for T42

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energyandair · #1 Post by **energyandair** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:46 am

I guess my new T42 2378-REU is quieter than most other machines but it is not silent and my goal is to get a computer as close to absolutely silent as possible.
As I like the T42 a lot, my first objective is to make it quieter. If I can’t do this, I will look for an alternative and if I find one that is acceptable in other respects, I will send the T42 back. This would be a PITA as I would probably have to sacrifice other things as well as spending a lot more time and money. One possible alternative is the Panasonic Y2 that has an ultra low voltage chip, no fan and a 40G 4200rpm drive. Panasonic’s new Y4 may be another option but I have not seen it yet.
At present, when the T42's fan is on low speed (most of the time), the sound appears to come roughly 45% from the fan and 55% from the HD (which sounds like another fan). The computer is just audible from 15 ft in a completely silent room. It would probably not be noticeable at all in a normal office and the sound characteristic is relatively benign but it is loud enough to bug me as I work in a very quiet environment.
It may seem like a small thing but it is likely to reduce the amount of time I will spend in front of the computer each week and the lost earnings from that will far exceed any likely extra cost to pay for a quieter machine.
Can anyone recommend a hard drive that will be significantly quieter that the 60GB 7200rpm hard drive that came with the machine? It would need to be at least 3dB (0.3 bel) quieter and 10dB quieter would be great. I will go down to 4200rpm if it makes a significant difference but a quiet and fast 5600rpm drive would be ideal.
Looking at the Hitachi site, it looks as though the 5K80 is a possibility. It appears to be 3-6dB quieter, depending upon the operating conditions.
Does anyone have any other suggestions? I have heard that some of the new Seagates are quiet.
David

#2 Post by **aamsel** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:53 am

Definately get a Seagate.
Get one of the Seagate 5400rpm 100GB drives, or any drive that Seagate manufactures.
Seagate tend to be among the quietest drives made, both for notebook and desktop drives.
The Seagates I have been using on my desktops make the Western Digitals sound like tin cans with rocks inside them!

If there is a FRY's or Best Buy in your area that has one in stock, you can try it with return priviledges. (oops, you are in Canada, so that would be Future Shop or Best Buy.)

Personally, I would ignore the Whitesheet specs put out by manufacturers on the dB ratings, and just try a drive "real world."

Start by making yourself a set of restore CD-R's, swap in the Seagate and do a restore.

If you are not happy with that, you could:
1.) Put a 4200rpm notebook drive in it.
2.) Consider an X40 or X41 which use a 4200rpm 1.8" hard drive, very quiet. The 1.8" is the same drive used in iPods and such, and is very quiet, much less vibration. Standard notebook drives are 2.5".
3.) The new Motion tablet announced this week also uses a 1.8" 4200rpm hard drive. Also uses a fanless CPU heatsink.
4.) Look at other Ultra-low voltage Centrino designs. Less CPU power, less heat, less cooling equals quieter. Of course, the processor is slower.

Andrew
Austin, TX

floyyed · #3 Post by **floyyed** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:04 pm

aamsel wrote:Definately get a Seagate.
Get one of the Seagate 5400rpm 100GB drives, or any drive that Seagate manufactures.
Seagate tend to be among the quietest drives made, both for notebook and desktop drives.
The Seagates I have been using on my desktops make the Western Digitals sound like tin cans with rocks inside them!

If there is a FRY's or Best Buy in your area that has one in stock, you can try it with return priviledges. (oops, you are in Canada, so that would be Future Shop or Best Buy.)

Personally, I would ignore the Whitesheet specs put out by manufacturers on the dB ratings, and just try a drive "real world."

Start by making yourself a set of restore CD-R's, swap in the Seagate and do a restore.

Andrew
Austin, TX

usually the fugitsu HDD will be a good choice.

energyandair · #4 Post by **energyandair** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:22 pm

Aamsel
Is this the one you mean? http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/dis ... 35,00.html
I see that based on specs it should sound similar to the Hitachi 5k80 and quieter than the 7K60 but I take your point that real world sound levels may be different from manufacturers specs.

Floyyed
Which one do you have in mind? I found the following web page but it was not that clear to me which one I should be looking at. http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/ ... /hdd/mhdd/

Thanks
David

#5 Post by **aamsel** » Thu May 19, 2005 12:36 pm

Yes, that is it.
It will be quieter than the 7K60.
If you really want the quietest, however, I would suggest a 4200rpm model.
Not sure which one to recommend.

Andrew
Austin, TX

energyandair wrote:Aamsel
Is this the one you mean? http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/dis ... 35,00.html
I see that based on specs it should sound similar to the Hitachi 5k80 and quieter than the 7K60 but I take your point that real world sound levels may be different from manufacturers specs.

#6 Post by **daeojkim** » Thu May 19, 2005 3:36 pm

I got the Seagate momentus 5400.2 100GB. It is very quiet at least to my ears.

The 4200 rpm may be even quieter, with about 30% drop in performance.

#7 Post by **aamsel** » Thu May 19, 2005 3:40 pm

True, although Seagate does not appear to offer any 4200 rpm notebook models.

Andrew
Austin, TX

daeojkim wrote:I got the Seagate momentus 5400.2 100GB. It is very quiet at least to my ears.

The 4200 rpm may be even quieter, with about 30% drop in performance.

beeblebrox · #8 Post by **beeblebrox** » Fri May 20, 2005 10:32 am

You should check the settings on your 7k60. By factory default it is set to high performancy.

Turn on the acoustics management, and it will turn silent.
(at least on my system it did).
In another TP I have a 4200 Fujitsu. Very, very silent, but a bit slower than the 5400 Fujitsu. Hitachis are useful as well.
The fan is always off (using Centrino Hardware control).

Check the new 7k100. Hitachi claims that it is the most silent power drive ever...

The most silent drives seem to be the Samsungs.

energyandair · #9 Post by **energyandair** » Fri May 20, 2005 11:09 pm

From checking specifications it appears as though I might be able to drop the sound level by about 6 dB, which is enough to be significant. This is based on the 7K60 ranging between 27 and 30 dB at idle and some of the quieter drives being in the 21-24dB range. Unfortunately they don’t all quote noise levels the same way and I’m not sure if they all test them the same way.

The local stores generally just have older 4200rpm drives with 2mb buffers that will be a lot slower but probably no quieter than some of the other drives that are now available. If I order a drive brought in through a local store I would not be able to return it, so it looks as though I need to research this enough to be fairly sure it will work then order it on the net from someone who will accept a return if it doesn’t work out.

daeojkim
Based on the specs, it looks as though the Seagate 5400.2 100GB is either 3dB or 6dB quieter than the 7K60. In a quiet room with the hard drive idling, and the fan off or at minimum, how close do you have to be to the computer to hear it?

beeblebrox

Adjusting the acoustics management is a good suggestion but I had already done this and while it helped, it did not get things as quiet as I am looking for. My machine came optimized for performance on read and for sound on write (or the other way around, I can’t recall which). Optimizing both read and write for sound pretty much eliminated the sound of head movement but did not have any effect on the background “fan like” noise which I assume came from disc rotation. Hitachi’s specs show their 100G as 1-3dB quieter than the 60G but this is a small difference and based on the specs, the Hitachi 100G does not appear to be as quiet as some slower drives from other manufacturers.

David
Victoria BC

#10 Post by **daeojkim** » Fri May 20, 2005 11:39 pm

HI energyandair,

I have the HD in my A31p. I hear the fan, but I cannot hear the HD from normal using distance. Also since the HD is under the vent, i hear the fan instead

dimon · #11 Post by **dimon** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:07 am

What is the verdict? Do you have final configuration? Please share.

energyandair · #12 Post by **energyandair** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:13 pm

I have no final conclusions on which hard drive yet but here is an overall status update.

I have decided to keep my T42 as:

(1) There is so much that I probably can’t completely match in a quieter machine:
- The 15” SXGA+ flexview screen
- The controllability of the touchpad and the trackpoint
- The keyboard feel
- The general design quality. (So many little things are well thought out)
- The look (I am a sucker for simple elegant designs)
- The construction quality
- The HD protection
- The speed
- The availability of help if and when I need it

(2) I got my T42 at such a good price that any possibly quieter and acceptable alternative I know of would cost a lot more as well as compromising other things I value (E.g. Over $1,000 more for a Panasonic Y2 with 14.1” sxga+, intel graphics, 4200rpm HD, docking station and 512K)

(3) For a desktop replacement that has to be taken on trips occasionally, I far prefer the 15” standard format to the 14” or any of the widescreen alternatives and the T42 is both compact and light for a well built 15”.

(3) Although the T42 is not nearly as quiet as I would like, it is (just) quiet enough that I can live with it if I have to and it is apparent, from this thread and others, that I can lower the sound level once I find the time. E.g.
- Optimize the HD for low noise rather than performance (already done)
- Set up on adaptive mode (already done)
- Buy a quieter hard drive (3db quieter seems to be easy with little loss of performance [eg Seagate 100G 5400rpm] and 6dB if one accepts a performance hit. My plan is to look further when I have the time and keep my present drive for use as a ghosted back-up)
- Undervolt the processor to hopefully reduce fan noise
- Underclock the processor to hopefully reduce fan noise

(4) There may (or may not) be some other things that would help make it quieter:
- Enable fan shut off when the machine is idle or operating at low power. (I am optimistic that someone will find an answer)
- Set a lower minimum fan speed. (Half the rpm would be near silent and move enough air for my typical use but I don’t recall seeing anything on how to do this. I think it would be more useful than enabling shutoff.)

David

Cedric · #13 Post by **Cedric** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:37 am

@energyandair
It seems, that I've the same problem as you. I've searched many many weeks for a really silent notebook, but I think, I've to give up this dream. Now for a few days I've bought the T42 2373M1G, after talking to some people, who have this notebook.

I've heard some notebooks and I can say, that this IBM Thinkpad is one of the most silent notebooks I've ever heard. But...it's not so silent I wish.

a) After the notebook is on I can hear a constant and buzzing noice from the down right. Because of I work in an absolutly silent room, this noice is extremly bothering. I don't know whether this could be the HDD, here is the specification: HTS541080G9ATOO.

b) Also when a CD is in the drive there's a load buzz during access operations to the CD. It sounds like a very loud fan.

Can somebody give me any instructions or hints, where some improvements or optimizations can be done to get a grip on the 'loudness' of this notebook. I don't know, where I have to look and what have I to set, that a little bit more silent work can be granted.

Kind regards
Stephan

sugo · #14 Post by **sugo** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:27 am

Umm ... my 5k100 80GB (HTS541080G9AT00) here doesn't make buzzing sound.

mdarnton · #15 Post by **mdarnton** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:46 am

I've got an 80Gb 4200RPM Travelstar, and it's extremely quiet, and certainly fast enough.

Cedric · #16 Post by **Cedric** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:11 am

@sugo
I don't know exactly, whether it is the HDD or not. The only thing I can recognize is the constant buzzing sound down right. In short form: from the right area (right beside the touchpad) comes the buzzing noice.

Perhaps this is the fan of the GPU, I don't know. Without fail it's bothering. And I really hope that I can get stop this buzz.

Where can I check settings regarded to some properties belonging to the loudness, such as HDD high performance.

PS: What type of model is my HDD (HTS541080G9ATOO)?

sugo · #17 Post by **sugo** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:51 pm

Cedric, we have the same hdd. HTS541080G9AT00 (two zeros at the end, not two Ohs) is Hitachi Travelstar 5K100 series 80GB model.

Regarding the cd drive noise, in Thinkpad Configuration or BIOS, you can set the cd drive to silent mode. It made a huge difference on my T42. Give it a try.

crippy59 · #18 Post by **crippy59** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:47 am

On the WD website, the scorpio 80gb posts a noise that's lower than Hitachi and Seagate. At first I thought it was bulls, but after hearing all three side by side, it's really quieter. I'm using the WD right now.

Way · #19 Post by **Way** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:07 am

Silentpcreview.com is currently fond of the wd scorpio.I have one on order so I cannot yet speak first hand but from researching the internet this is the quitest 5400 rpm drive.Good luck

dimon · #20 Post by **dimon** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:06 am

Just popped Seagate 60G 5400rpm into t42. As noisy, if not more, as 40G 5400rpm Hitachi. Soooo, 4200 rpm is the next stop for me...

Any recommendations on high perf 4200rpm drives? I have read that some are using larger cashes etc.

Can you fit 1.8 inch drive into T42? If so, how do they compare to 2.5 inch drives?

Thanks!

sugo · #21 Post by **sugo** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:34 pm

Single platter 4200rpm Hitachi or Fujitsu drives are probably your best bet.

Way · #22 Post by **Way** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:02 am

Before going to a 4200rpm drive, give the wd scorpio a shot.I have recieved mine recently and it is very quiet.Though I can hear it if I put my ear up to it.There were some reports of intermittent clicking but that has been solved by a firmware update drom Dell(strange!!) I believe.Mine does not suffer from this clicking.Pretty much everything I have learned about silent computers was from silentpcreview.com.I regularily searched their storage forums for wd scorpio and obsessively kept up with any new posts.I finally made my decision and bought a new sealed wd800ve off ebay.VE is the 8mb cache option and UE is 2mb.I am a musician who is new to laptops in general and lucked into a free broken t23 that happened to be under warranty.I would just like to take the opportunity to express my appreciation for this community and I look forward to being a contributing member.

Navck · #23 Post by **Navck** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:06 am

I had bad experance with Seagate, watch their warranty
If it does break, say hi to new "refurbished" replacement harddrive

Way · #24 Post by **Way** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:17 am

With respect to the"buzzing" problem.My t23 has a buzzing sound when the brightness is less than maximum using the fn keys.When I dim the brightness in the s3 display settings,no buzzing.I called tech support about this and
they are going to take a look at my laptop.I have read somewhere this may be a symptom of a inverter board dying.Hope this helps.

beeblebrox · #25 Post by **beeblebrox** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:31 am

Way wrote:With respect to the"buzzing" problem.My t23 has a buzzing sound when the brightness is less than maximum using the fn keys.When I dim the brightness in the s3 display settings,no buzzing.I called tech support about this and
they are going to take a look at my laptop.I have read somewhere this may be a symptom of a inverter board dying.Hope this helps.

Yep, that is a common "problem" on the T2x series. I had exactly the same with my old T20, although display, motherboard etc. were replaced by IBM. It just is some RF vibration of the coils that generate high voltage. Think about the huge 50 or 60Hz transformers in power plants or distributors. the coils "swing" with 50Hz, the humming sound.
The inverter generates a few kilohertz for the voltage generation.
Nothing to worry about.

Way · #26 Post by **Way** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:04 am

By the way,I have never used the wireless part of my router,just ethernet.

Way · #27 Post by **Way** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:05 am

Sorry wrong topic!!

dimon · #28 Post by **dimon** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:11 am

sugo wrote:Single platter 4200rpm Hitachi or Fujitsu drives are probably your best bet.

Got Fujitsu 40G single platter. Much quiter when spinning comparing to 5400 rpm 40G Hitachi and Seagate. You need to strain yourself to hear it...

BUT, regular clicks are more noticeble. If only there was a way to get rid of them??? Another HDD or perhaps updating some software/firmware???

Gentelmen, please contribute! This thread is becoming a main HDD noise thread - your input will be revered by generation of TP users.

P.S.
Suggestion: we all have different ears, when describing noise levels statements like "its very quiet" would be much more helpfull if given in relative terms (compare to another HDD or something else).

dimon · #29 Post by **dimon** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:59 am

Also tried
Toshiba MK4025GAS - 1 platter
not as good as
Fujitsu MHT2040AT - 1 platter

Toshibas clicks are more audible, so Fujitsu is the way to go.

energyandair · #30 Post by **energyandair** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:28 am

Dimon
I presume that the clicks you refer to are the sound of the heads moving.
Have you set the drives to optimise for quietness rather than speed?
David

Quieter Hard Drive options for T42

Quieter Hard Drive options for T42

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