T series owners - what am I missing?

Message

vjack · #1 Post by **vjack** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:19 pm

I bought a T42 after reading several reviews, getting great advice from members here, etc. It arrived a few days ago, and I must say I'm not particularly impressed. Now I'm trying to decide whether I should return it and try my luck with another brand or just hope I can learn to live with it.

After hearing so much about legendary Thinkpad reliability and going with the T-series instead of the R-series I was initially looking at for improved build quality, I am surprised at how cheaply made it feels. Keep in mind that the primary notebook computer I used before this was an 4-year old Dell Latitude that was certainly never regarded as being well made by anyone. While the trackpad on this T42 is vastly superior to the Dell, the keyboard is nothing special. Worse yet, the amount of heat this thing generates makes it nearly unbearable to use on my lap. The colors on the 14" XVGA screen seem washed out (I have checked all the settings), and I have to use the 120 DPI setting to be able to see anything.

This was my first thinkpad, and it is entirely possible that my expectations were just too high. If these machines are really as good as everybody seems to think, then I suppose I should just keep working with it and hope that I can live with its limitations. Any suggestions?

JHEM · #2 Post by **JHEM** » Thu May 19, 2005 8:45 pm

Interesting report, what model T42 do you have?

Regards,

James

emorphien · #3 Post by **emorphien** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:18 pm

Having used some of these, I have always been impressed and can't wait to get mine. If you've never used one, after reading everything online you might expect too much so I can see why you'd be thrown. The keyboard is a different feel from some dells, I admit I don't think my Dell has a bad keyboard but I do know the IBM ones hold up better.

It's a matter of taste and all that, not everyones going to like it.

Plinkerton · #4 Post by **Plinkerton** » Thu May 19, 2005 10:32 pm

I guess it's just different opinions or something. They keyboard on my T42 is vastly superior to anything else I've ever felt. So far the Thinkpad is holding up wonderfully. I have a 2378-FVU, and the screen is great, bright, etc.

So far it's fast, handles everything I throw at it, and feels great overall.

It's definitely not "flashy" though. My dad just got a big ol' desktop replacement HP. The screen is "Brightview" or whatever it's called, and it's a 17 inch widescreen. Definitely looks like a flashy and bright media center compared to my T42, but I wouldn't trade them for anything.

I don't know. I guess all the crap you read online, makes yo think that these things are super computers or something. They're still mass produced in China or wherever, still on an assembly line, and still by people who probably aren't super experts on all this crap.

Either way, I'm happy with mine. Maybe yours will grow on you?

Good luck with whatever you decide.
-Plink-

#5 Post by **K. Eng** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:03 pm

Build quality - I've owned both the T40 and the Dell Latitude D600. I've also used the Dell Inspiron 600m. The Latitude is ok, and the Inspiron feels like a cheap toy. If you pick up an Inspiron 600m and pick up a T4x, the difference is apparent right away.

Keyboard - No contest. T4x beats the D600/600m every time. I hated the D600's keyboard so much that I sent it back to Dell. Now a Dell Latitude that I had from 1998 had a keyboard as good as the T4x.

Display - I don't disagree with you. Some of these non-flexview displays on the ThinkPads are abysmal. The 14" XGA on my T4x absolutely blows compared to my friend's 15" SXGA+. I think the displays on the D600 and 600m are better, but they do consume more power.

I like the T4x a lot, but I will readily admit that they are not perfect.

#6 Post by **daeojkim** » Thu May 19, 2005 11:15 pm

I have used many laptops from work. home, friends.. etc. Including brands like Sony, DELL, Apple, Toshiba, you name it and I probably have used some brand sometime.

My first thinkpad was the T42. I liked it so much, especially the keyboard and the necessary components, and thoughtful layout. Also the customer service and the fact that you can virtually replace any component by yourself because there is so much support to able you to do so.

I did not think of much about IBM. I thought first that it was dull, overpriced laptop with mediocre performance. Now I know why Thinkpads are so highly regarded as one of the best laptops out there. I don't expect it to be space age technology, but overall almost every features in thinkpads are one of the best in industry.

I liked thinkpads so much that I bought A31p, and I am about receive an X24 tomorrow. I got rid of 3 desktops and 1 laptop that I had.

Honestly, unless Lenovo screws up big time I am stkcing with Thinkpads.

I am not trying to counter your argument, but my personal opinion about thinkpads. May be things that impresses me and others may be not seen imressive to you and vice versa.

vjack · #7 Post by **vjack** » Sat May 21, 2005 6:39 am

JHEM wrote:Interesting report, what model T42 do you have?

Regards,

James

I have a 2378-FVU.

wolfman · #8 Post by **wolfman** » Sat May 21, 2005 7:30 am

I have a Dell Latitude d800 widescreen model from work - and I really dislike it. It weighs a TON, the keyboard feels like I'm working on a calculator pad and the worst part is that the touchpad/trackpoint area is very sensitive to keyboard flex. IE, unlike on my Thinkpad, when typing if I press too hard on some keys in the center of the keyboard the cursor starts moving all over the screen and it is extremely irritating while trying to concentrate. I use the trackpoint on the thinkpad exclusively, however, the trachpoint on the Dell is practically unusable in comparison.

I can safely say that, assuming things stay as they are now, I'll always buy thinkpads. I bought a relatively inexpensive model compared to most folks here but was able to easily upgrade the ram, wireless, hard drive, etc - all without voiding the warranty and with great documentation. Reliable, well documented, upgradable and well supported by the community. Plus I really *like* the all black look. Timeless. I think the T42 will grow on you over time and you'll come to appreciate the little things IBM does that are thoughtful and represent a well engineered, mature product - even on the low end models.

JHEM · #9 Post by **JHEM** » Sat May 21, 2005 8:39 am

vjack wrote:I have a 2378-FVU.

Then your report is truly bizarre! I've had two of that exact model in my hands recently, both of which have found new homes with happy owners. Neither of them exhibited any of the problems you've reported, certainly not any lack of brightness in the razor sharp SXGA+ displays.

Do you have the display at its brightest setting (Fn+Home)? Are you using the correct driver for the display? If you're having difficulty reading text and have to set it for 120DPI, then you purchased the wrong display! You would apparently be happier with a 14.1" XGA model.

Neither unit exhibited any excessive heat, certainly nowhere near enough to be objectionable. Do you have your CPU set as adaptive in the power settings? I'm typing this on one of my T41p units (1.7GHz, 1.5GB, 7K60 HD) and it's on my lap and perfectly cool to the touch.

As to build quality, they were as well built as any T4X series machine I've seen of late, easily the equal of my T40, T41p or T42p.

Don't know what else to tell you.

Regards,

James

dvorak · #10 Post by **dvorak** » Sat May 21, 2005 9:04 am

I think there's no point in arguing over brightness, vjack may have different eye-sensitivity or compared it to another LCD screen, in which case he's right. The screens are modest, nothing god-like there, if anything, they're below normal (in my opinion), with all the color inconsistency and slow-red-pixels etc.

Thinkpad's may be better built compared to others, but in my opinion, again, they're nothing divine, battery has always felt weird, a bit loose, cracks and openings here and there (DVD-drive, right side of LCD etc.), creaks coming out of palmrest and so on.

I do like the keyboard and the Trackpoint, so not all is avarage :)

rocketman · #11 Post by **rocketman** » Sat May 21, 2005 9:41 am

Regarding the quality of the keyboard IBM (and I guess now Lenovo as well) uses 2 or 3 different keyboards and there is a difference in feeling between them. The consensus is the Thai keyboard is the best, and since a T43p that I received has the Thai keyboard and my T42 has the Chineese keyboard I can tell you there is definitely a difference, The Thai keyboard has better tactile feel and is also quieter.

dmdsoftware · #12 Post by **dmdsoftware** » Sat May 21, 2005 9:49 am

I wasn't very impressed by the T42 I got from work either. After working exclusively off of X31s, X30s, and X20s over the past 5 years, here are my observations:

- The trackpad is nice, but I hate using trackpads so I disabled it (so no advantage over my X30 here). I'm a trackpoint kind of man which is one reason why I love the thinkpads.
- Screen resolution of this model is 1024x768 - the same resolution as my X30. Only difference is that this is a 14" whereas my X30 is 12". I think 1024x768 is a perfect match for a 12" LCD, but I only use 1600x1200 on screens 14" or bigger. It's just what I'm accustomed to, so this T42 thinkpad I was given falls short of this expectation.
- The screen brightness is great. The thinkpads have the best quality LCDs when it comes to clarity and brightness. The T42 is brighter then my X30, but only because I've use my X30 every day for the past 3 years. So, one can only expect that the brightness will deteriate over time.
- A brand new battery and I get 2.5 hours of battery life out of it. I'm very used to going 4 hours straight without plugging in my AC.
- I rarely use optical media when I'm working so I always get in the tendency that I won't take a DVD drive with me on the go if I don't need it. The factory sealed T42 didn't come with a dummy plastic piece that even my ultrabay for my X30 came with to place in the drive bay if I decide not to leave my optical drive in it.
- Only a 5400rpm drive in this model whereas even my X30 has a faster drive. The drive speed does make a difference because, even though the T42 has a faster processor, the X30 starts up much more quicker and has generally a faster response time doing most of my typical tasks then the T42.
- Most importantly the weight and size. I'm always on the go and carrying around this T42 isn't a very nice experience. It doesn't fit well with a napsac full of books and it's not very light. I can run around with my X30 loosely clenched in my hand without any fear it'd slip out of my hand. I dare not try this with my T42.
- The T42, like the X30, is built great. I know someone who dropped their T42 (case closed) screen side down from a height of 5 feet and there was no damage other then a broken hinge. From any other brand of notebook, you'd expect to go shopping for a new LCD, if not a whole new notebook.

vjack · #13 Post by **vjack** » Sat May 21, 2005 12:53 pm

The replies have been very helpful. I will keep playing with it and try different settings that were recommended. In particular, I will see if adaptive mode helps with the heat.

vjack · #14 Post by **vjack** » Sun May 22, 2005 3:19 pm

After spending a couple more days with it, the T42 is starting to grow on me. The tip I received here about changing the processor from "maximum" to "adaptive" was extremely helpful in reducing heat. I haven't noticed any difference in speed, but the temperature is somewhat more tolerable on my lap. My eyes are also getting more used to the screen, and I've found that I can work comfortably on a moderate brightness setting.

Plinkerton · #15 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sun May 22, 2005 5:31 pm

Luke... join the dark side...

#16 Post by **underclocker** » Sun May 22, 2005 8:20 pm

The T-series will definitely grow on you, especially if you appreciate engineering that borders on artwork. The dimensions of the machine, options and weight are nearly impossible to beat.

If you're looking for build quality and a solid feel, just check out an IBM R51. The design is nearly identical to a T-series machine but it's about 1/3 of an inch thicker and weighs a pound more. Beautiful, solid as a rock, durable, but not a supermodel.

I have both

.

Enjoy.

kchung · #17 Post by **kchung** » Tue May 24, 2005 7:44 pm

The company I work for has tons of different model IBMs and I'm one of the IT guys who support/service them. My work laptop is a T41. The company has recently bought a number of Dell D600s.

Personally, I think the T41/2 keyboard is superior to the Dell keyboard. The Dell keys feel mushy/loose and the typing surface seems to flex too much. The IBM keys feel tight and responsive. I'm also a touch typist and I can't type as fast on a Dell.

The Dell D600 screen we're getting here is the 1400x1050 screen versus the IBM's 1024x768. However, my eyes aren't that great and even after changing every font/dpi/screen resolution, I can't get what I want in a lower resolution on the Dell. But as indicated by other posters, it's a personal preference thing. Some users love the A31p 1600x1200 screen in native mode which is WAY for me...

One thing that I really like about the IBM is the battery tool. You can easily determine how many "watt hours" your battery has, see how many amps of load you're pulling (great for demonstrating visually to user just why their battery dies so fast when they've got the screen brighness maxed and watching a DVD!).

Personally, I'd take my T41 (or a T42) over a Dell any day of the week.

tanstaafl · #18 Post by **tanstaafl** » Wed May 25, 2005 1:37 am

Here I rank all the laptops I have owned from best to worst. (Just my humble opinion):
1. IBM Thinkpad T41 (2373-1FU)
2. HP Omnibook 4150
3. HP Omnibook 5700
4. Toshiba Portege 320
5. AST Ascentia J30
6. Tandy 1400LT
7. HP Omnibook 6100
8. HP Omnibook 500
9. Tandy T4400SX
10. Compaq Armada M700

The only mediocre thing about my T41 hardware is the display. It's not bad, but I've seen better.

The keyboard is terrific; best I've used on a laptop.

The trackpoint is far better than any other trackpoint that I've used; this single superior attribute makes the T41 so much easier to work with than the other laptops.

The best thing is that the hardware always works perfectly with the software. The networking has worked absolutely flawlessly, easily adapting when I take it from home to work; wireless and cable coexist peacefully and seamlessly. The laptop always suspends, resumes, and hibernates when it's supposed to without any problems; it is unfazed when attached or detached from the port replicator; the optical drive can be exchanged with an extra hard drive, never with any problems. Etc. I have always had some kind of hardware/software problems with every other laptop that I've owned, from minor to major. Not with the T41. It is truly a workhorse.

dvorak · #19 Post by **dvorak** » Wed May 25, 2005 10:02 am

Software problems are actually more related to the software itself, and not hardware, but I'm having very weird problems with my Thinkpad that I'm not experiencing on my desktop with more or less the same software setup:
Huge waits from resuming standby or hibernation, after months I've pinned it down to Firefox and Flash, works fine on my desktop-comp, so not a generic Firefox problem.

Regarding other problems, I'm not sure comparing laptops by comparing software anomalies is the right thing to do, these problems more depend on the programs itself, and the operating system, none of which IBM makes.

I only admire the keyboard, trackpoint and design, slim and classy + warranty, everything else is not that special.

T series owners - what am I missing?

T series owners - what am I missing?

Who is online