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T40 fan - some facts (warning, large pics)

T4x series specific matters only
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DaniWurf
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T40 fan - some facts (warning, large pics)

#1 Post by DaniWurf » Tue May 24, 2005 1:50 pm

Hey!

I disabled internal wifi (intel 2100 b).
Downclocked ATI 7500 to 200MHz.

All this to minimize disturbing heat sources.

Then I started som CPU intensive programs.
The fan kicks in when temp reaches 47 deg. Celsius.
The fan stops when temp reaches 42 deg. Celsius.

I tried it many times, got consistent readings.
All meassured with mobile meter and centrino hardware control 1.7.

----

So what triggers the fan to run constantly even when the computer is just idling at ~36 deg. Celsius (600MHz, wifi enabled, ATI at stock speed)?

I tried to cool the components (one by one) that looked suspicious until I found the right one. I have marked the [censored] in the pictures...
"AM7" is printed on top of it...

If the cpu temp is below 42 deg. and the fan is running, I can make the fan stop by blowing my breath on the sucker. It never fails...
Seems like it just slightly overheating/oversensing.

Now my plan is to mount som kind of pipe that can direct cold air from the fan to the space that is too hot.

Do you experts have any other ideas?

Image
Image
Thinkpad T40 2373-19U, winXP pro. Added: 256MB RAM, Samsung 80GB HDD. Switched mini-PCI wlan module intel 2100 802.11b to Intel 2915 ABG, with 1802 hack :)

scottyburger
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#2 Post by scottyburger » Tue May 24, 2005 3:00 pm

You could try creating a custom power scheme in the Battery Maximiser application. Set the CPU Speed setting to Adaptive for both battery and plugged-in use. After 10 seconds, you should hear the fan reduce speed and become quieter. All assuming you aren't running any CPU intensive applications. :D

K. Eng
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Re: T40 fan - some facts (warning, large pics)

#3 Post by K. Eng » Tue May 24, 2005 4:10 pm

Wow sounds interesting :) Let us know if your solution works. My T40 has nearly the same configuration as yours, and I've had the "fan always on" problem for a long time now.
DaniWurf wrote:Hey!
I tried to cool the components (one by one) that looked suspicious until I found the right one. I have marked the [censored] in the pictures...
"AM7" is printed on top of it...

If the cpu temp is below 42 deg. and the fan is running, I can make the fan stop by blowing my breath on the sucker. It never fails...
Seems like it just slightly overheating/oversensing.

Now my plan is to mount som kind of pipe that can direct cold air from the fan to the space that is too hot.

Do you experts have any other ideas?
Homebuilt PC: AMD Athlon XP (Barton) @ 1.47 GHz; nForce2 Ultra; 1GB RAM; 80GB HDD @ 7200RPM; ATI Radeon 9600; Integrated everything else!

Kenn
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#4 Post by Kenn » Tue May 24, 2005 4:33 pm

No real ideas for how to do it, but it seems like you may have the "short" fan - the "long" version will cover the GPU, and that would probably get you close enough to more easily run a tab of metal off the heatpipe or something.
IBM ThinkPad T42p (2373-7XU): 1.8GHz/1024MB, 15" UXGA, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.
T42 (2374-3VU): 1.7GHz/512MB, 14.1"SXGA+, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.

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#5 Post by geobel » Tue May 24, 2005 6:17 pm

Great job! Not too much what can be done to fix this however. Optimally one would trash WIFI card and replace touchpad with some fancy black grille. The former step is not an option for almost anyone. Replacing touchpad with grille is fine for me but the benefit is not obvious given wifi is not removed.

Gosha
Thinkpad X61t (7762 CTO) 1.6 GHz 2GB RAM Vista Ultimate SP1
Thinkpad T40 (2373-19U) 1GB RAM; T41p fan; Win XP Pro SP3

FTC
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#6 Post by FTC » Wed May 25, 2005 2:09 am

Hi,

Perhaps one idea could be to stick on top of it a *very small* heatsink with thermal tape... This would reduce the temp on top of the thermal sensor (if that is what that component is). If you decide to try this, do it with thermal tape first, so that you can easily remove it...
760CD -> 770X -> 600E -> T23 -> T40 -> T42 -> T400 -> T430
Thinkpad T430 i5 3320M 320GB HD, 8GB Mem

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#7 Post by JHaislet » Wed May 25, 2005 2:17 am

I was thinking the same thing. I used a new penny & thermal tape on some sort of frequency chip on an Asus P3B-F motherobard. It worked like a charm & made the MB solid as a rock.

DaniWurf
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#8 Post by DaniWurf » Wed May 25, 2005 2:43 am

FTC wrote:Hi,

Perhaps one idea could be to stick on top of it a *very small* heatsink with thermal tape... This would reduce the temp on top of the thermal sensor (if that is what that component is). If you decide to try this, do it with thermal tape first, so that you can easily remove it...
Sound like an interesting idea! I'll get som thermal tape and a tiny heatsink and try it out. Perhaps it is best to monitor the temps around GPU/WiFi with a wire thermometer so that it doesn't fry if the thermal sensor cant trigger the fan properly.
Thinkpad T40 2373-19U, winXP pro. Added: 256MB RAM, Samsung 80GB HDD. Switched mini-PCI wlan module intel 2100 802.11b to Intel 2915 ABG, with 1802 hack :)

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#9 Post by Kenn » Wed May 25, 2005 8:44 am

DaniWurf wrote:Perhaps it is best to monitor the temps around GPU/WiFi with a wire thermometer so that it doesn't fry if the thermal sensor cant trigger the fan properly.
Good idea, it always pays to be careful when you signficantly mod the cooling on your machine!
IBM ThinkPad T42p (2373-7XU): 1.8GHz/1024MB, 15" UXGA, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.
T42 (2374-3VU): 1.7GHz/512MB, 14.1"SXGA+, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.

ibmt40
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#10 Post by ibmt40 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:25 pm

Get an m10 long fan, fan from IBM online in stead, i have a T40 and got tired of the noise and constant fan noise... Now it is very low noise and it gets off from time to time :) or runs really slow, so you cant hear it...

Before i didn't like my IBM, thought it was an annoying bug and mistake, but this is really great, and now i love it...

It is pretty easy to mount yourself, just be carefull :)

And upgrade your bios and embedded controller...

I can really recommend it!
Kim S.
Computer Science @ Aarhus University - Denmark

IBM T40, 512mb, 1.5 Ghz and 40Gb

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#11 Post by JHaislet » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:59 pm

For those of you looking at the T43's, it appears that all the 2668, 2669, 2686, & 2687 models already come with the long fan assembly (M24).

However, the 1871, 1872, 1875 & 1876 have the regular (short) assembly, probably due to integrated graphics.

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#12 Post by vliou » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:27 pm

I've never heard of the M10 Long fan. May I ask the full part number and what it is? Thanks.
Surfing on a T42 (2378RAU) - Dothan 1.6Ghz. 1024mb of Ram. 32mb ATI 7500. Intel 2200BG wifi card 100GB Seagate HDD

Also surfing on an X41 Tablet! - 1.5GHZ, 1GB of RAM, 60GB HDD, Bluetooth CDC, etc etc

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#13 Post by Kenn » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:53 pm

vliou wrote:I've never heard of the M10 Long fan. May I ask the full part number and what it is? Thanks.
The "long fan" is a larger heatsink - it snakes past the PC-Card cage (the big bright silver thing in the first picture directly under the heatsink) and covers the ATI graphics chip between what I assume are the north and south bridge chips. It does this because the more powerful graphics chips get quite hot as well, and need to be cooled.

Cooling the chip directly may bring the internal temperature inside the chassis down enough to prevent that diode from tripping the fan as much as with the "short fan," which doesn't cover the graphics chip.
IBM ThinkPad T42p (2373-7XU): 1.8GHz/1024MB, 15" UXGA, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.
T42 (2374-3VU): 1.7GHz/512MB, 14.1"SXGA+, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.

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#14 Post by vliou » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:10 pm

I know I have a 2378RAU, is there an easy way for me to tell if I have the long fan? (fan's always on...sigh)
Surfing on a T42 (2378RAU) - Dothan 1.6Ghz. 1024mb of Ram. 32mb ATI 7500. Intel 2200BG wifi card 100GB Seagate HDD

Also surfing on an X41 Tablet! - 1.5GHZ, 1GB of RAM, 60GB HDD, Bluetooth CDC, etc etc

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#15 Post by JHaislet » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:45 pm

I looked up the parts that are inside the 2378RAU and the RAx isn't even listed in the details regarding the fan assembly. There is a 2378-RUx (could you have transposted the A & U)? If so, then it's a "Short" assembly and you've got the 15" screen right?

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-46474

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#16 Post by vliou » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:14 am

Hey,

Thanks for looking it up for me. I have the RAU, 14" screen (Canadian version, hehe)...

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-46474
Surfing on a T42 (2378RAU) - Dothan 1.6Ghz. 1024mb of Ram. 32mb ATI 7500. Intel 2200BG wifi card 100GB Seagate HDD

Also surfing on an X41 Tablet! - 1.5GHZ, 1GB of RAM, 60GB HDD, Bluetooth CDC, etc etc

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#17 Post by DaniWurf » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:14 am

Changing the short fan for a long M10 sounds really good. One question though, the fan assembly is not a CRU (customer replaceable unit). Will I void the warranty if I switch fan assembly?
Thinkpad T40 2373-19U, winXP pro. Added: 256MB RAM, Samsung 80GB HDD. Switched mini-PCI wlan module intel 2100 802.11b to Intel 2915 ABG, with 1802 hack :)

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#18 Post by vliou » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:31 pm

Also, could somebody please post a short set of instructions so I can order it in and change it? :)
Surfing on a T42 (2378RAU) - Dothan 1.6Ghz. 1024mb of Ram. 32mb ATI 7500. Intel 2200BG wifi card 100GB Seagate HDD

Also surfing on an X41 Tablet! - 1.5GHZ, 1GB of RAM, 60GB HDD, Bluetooth CDC, etc etc

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#19 Post by DaniWurf » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:21 am

vliou wrote:Also, could somebody please post a short set of instructions so I can order it in and change it? :)
Do you need installation instructions or order instructions or both :?:
Thinkpad T40 2373-19U, winXP pro. Added: 256MB RAM, Samsung 80GB HDD. Switched mini-PCI wlan module intel 2100 802.11b to Intel 2915 ABG, with 1802 hack :)

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#20 Post by vliou » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:31 am

Installation's all I need :D
Surfing on a T42 (2378RAU) - Dothan 1.6Ghz. 1024mb of Ram. 32mb ATI 7500. Intel 2200BG wifi card 100GB Seagate HDD

Also surfing on an X41 Tablet! - 1.5GHZ, 1GB of RAM, 60GB HDD, Bluetooth CDC, etc etc

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#21 Post by BillMorrow » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:16 am

that "hot" part looks like a voltage regulator of some sort..

and if it were my thinkpad i would complain to ibm about this one component that might be running hot..

you sure did a lot of work to pin this dow..
good job..! :)
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#22 Post by RS_003 » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:15 am

Took a pic of the long fan for you all ! :) (form my T42 with a 9600 mobile)

Image

Also got a few pics @ 1600x1200 ... :)
Own:
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Owned:
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#23 Post by DaniWurf » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:53 am

I will send my thinkpad to IBM for a motherboard exchange because of the well known USB 2.0 ports hardware fault. Hopefully they have a new revision of the motherboard that might solve the fan problem, if it doesn't I will get the M10 Long fan.

This fan is really driving me nuts... when I'm sitting in a lecture with the computer and it revs up and goes on forever everybody stares at me and my thinkpad, especially those that have computers (which are all silent except from some el-cheapo lappies with desktop cpu that sounds like an aeroplane during take-off :wink: )

Has anyone ever tried to contact the team that develops the thinkpad t-series about the fan issues? How do you get in touch with them? I asked IBM here in sweden and they told me that a rep would contact me... that was over two weeks ago.


EDIT: RS_003, I think that your picture confirms that the long fan probably is the most effective solution to the problem. I got one question for you: is your keyboard only fastened with three screws? It looks like the fourth screw hole (lower left corner of the GPU memory) that I need to fasten my keyboard is covered by the fan assembly... :?
Thinkpad T40 2373-19U, winXP pro. Added: 256MB RAM, Samsung 80GB HDD. Switched mini-PCI wlan module intel 2100 802.11b to Intel 2915 ABG, with 1802 hack :)

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#24 Post by RS_003 » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:14 am

Yes only 3 screws ;)

But thats on all 15" models.

Only 14" moddels need 4 screws :) (Can find it your self in the hardware maintenance guide)
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#25 Post by Mike8 » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:37 am

Does this mean, that it is a problem to install a "long fan" (M10) in a 14" model?

K. Eng
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#26 Post by K. Eng » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:10 am

Did the use of the M10 fan solve the problem?
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#27 Post by Mike8 » Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:44 am

I would like to replace my short fan against the long version. IBM side (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... R-46474#18) shows to different models:

1. Fan assemblyLong and

2. Fan assembly Long (M10)

Which one is the right model for my t41-2373-1FU?

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#28 Post by DaniWurf » Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:43 pm

bump up...

I would also like to know which one of the long fans is the best...
Thinkpad T40 2373-19U, winXP pro. Added: 256MB RAM, Samsung 80GB HDD. Switched mini-PCI wlan module intel 2100 802.11b to Intel 2915 ABG, with 1802 hack :)

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#29 Post by s0larian » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:27 am

I went with the M10 since I had the regular Long Fan already with the annoying acceleration sound. Size and Form of both is exactly the same. I don't regret it.
T40p 2373-g1g: 1.6 GHz, 1536 MB RAM, 160 GB @ 5400 rpm drive, 64 MB Video, IBM a/b/g II, CD-RW/DVD Combo II, M10 Fan, Ubuntu 8.04

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#30 Post by Aristotle11 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:02 am

What we really need is software that allows us to control when the fan turns on and off, on high and low. Some laptops have this. You can set the fan to only turn on low when above 42 degrees, and be off below that temp, and on high when at some higher temp.

I'm sure if the BIOS and/or the Embedded Controller can control fan speed, then there is some way for us to take control of it.

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