Did I kill my T40? *PIC*

[MrMaguire]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a dead T40 for cheap. It needed its GPU reflowed, so today I did exactly that. I put the 'board in the oven for 8 minutes at 200c. What? It works.

Then I went to test the reflowed 'board and made a rookie mistake. I powered up the bare motherboard with the keyboard sitting on top of it. Of course the keyboard's underside is metal and I'm afraid that I've shorted something on the 'board and blown one of the many fuses.

At first things were promising. I had the LCD connected which powered on and showed the splash screen, then after a split second, it turned off, the CPU fan stopped and I haven't been able to power it up again.

So, did I kill my freshly reflowed T40?

[Neil]

Probably...
You could, of course, check fuses with a multi-meter.
Or, it's very likely the "re-flow" only had a very limited, short term affect, and now the board is back to the state it was in when you first got it.

[MrMaguire]

Problem is, I don't have a multi-meter.

Before it would turn on, run the fan at full speed and beep at me. Now it seems completely dead.

[MrMaguire]

Well, turns out I didn't kill my T40.

http://s25.postimg.org/y2a04kxnj/1_small.jpg <480 x 640, ~330KB

It's alive! And so far it's consistently alive.

Now to figure out where all of these screws and small metal pieces go...

Wish me luck.

[axur-delmeria]

Now to figure out where all of these screws and small metal pieces go...

The Hardware Maintenance Manual should answer most of those questions.

[ebbano]

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a dead T40 for cheap. It needed its GPU reflowed, so today I did exactly that. I put the 'board in the oven for 8 minutes at 200c. What? It works.
....

wooow!

can you explain this procedure?

I think I have same problem with ATI GPU failure on T41p board.
Sometime system power on normally, other time the screen is blank and boot stop.

I hope you can help me.

[MrMaguire]

They say a picture's worth a thousand words. I wonder how many words 25 pictures a second for 3 minutes is worth?

This is basically what needs to be done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsMDnHIS8vg

Though, I didn't suspend the motherboard on tin foil balls. I just put it in a suitably-sized baking tray. The person in the video baked theirs for 10 minutes after preheating their oven to 200 degrees Celsius, then they let it cool in the oven for 20 minutes after. I baked mine for 8 minutes at 200c, then I let it cool in the oven with the door slightly open for 10 minutes, then another 10 minutes with the door open a little wider.

I also reflowed the GPU and southbridge on my Dell Inspiron 1501, and it worked as well. In fact, I've been using it since and it hasn't skipped a beat. But, given what BGA-mounted chips are, we'll see how long it lasts...

[ebbano]

Thanks!

Let me see the video and take extra info, I'll try something before trash the board.

[MrMaguire]

So, I'm about half way through putting the T40 back together.

I went to test it, and I got nothing. It's completely dead, just like before.

I was reading through the IBM Hardware Maintenance Manual, and saw "The system board cannot be used without the security chip." under some information about the modular security chip.

Does this basically mean that the system board will not attempt to power on at all, if the security chip is (for whatever reason) not making correct contact?

I would try to reseat it, but that means I would have to disassemble the laptop again...

[rkawakami]

My understanding is that the system should turn on and attempt to boot, but will generate an error if the security chip is missing.

[MrMaguire]

Hmm. If that's the case, there must be some other problem.

I've already tried reseating the ribbon cable for the display assembly.

The keyboard on this thing is really, really worn. Almost all of the keys are shiny, and somebody even wore the text off the caps lock key (The caps lock key!), and had to re-label it with Tipex pen, among others.

So I dunno. Maybe the power button and/or the keyboard are at fault.

[Hans Gruber]

I have a T43p that demonstrates similar behavior. Sometimes it's alive and boots to bios and other times it will not do anything.

[ebbano]

Mine do the same, initially It happened after a long time shout down at colder temperature.
With few minutes on moderate temp it powerup

Sent from my LT26ii

[ebbano]

The chef is cooking.....


Sent from my LT26ii

[jronald]

Dont mean to rain on anyones parade, but you did NOT re-flow a board at 200 degrees F or 200 degrees C.

With most tin/lead solder combinations, melting does not take place all at once. Fifty-fifty solder begins to melt at 183 C -361 F, but it's not fully melted until the temperature reaches 216 C - 420 F. Between these two temperatures, the solder exists in a plastic or semi-liquid state.

Sorry dont buy it, it my have made a better connection but i dont think its a long term fix.
Ron

[Neil]

^^ +1 and then some.

Back in the day, when it was considered worth the expense to try and re-flow a T4x board, even folks with a proper solder rework station found that it usually was not a long term solution.

[ebbano]

For wath i see, the board family is not good, I've the suspect that my t41 was already reworked.
Other friends with t43 and r50 (board is very similar) have same experiences.
Mine is only a game before trash it!

Sent from my LT26ii

[Neil]

I get that... Just an experiment to see for one's self what will happen. I've done it myself a couple of times a few years ago, without any success I might add, and not in an oven, but with a heat gun and infrared thermometer. As long as you don't expect too much, and have nothing to loose, I guess there's no harm in experimenting.

[ebbano]

Dont mean to rain on anyones parade, but you did NOT re-flow a board at 200 degrees F or 200 degrees C.

With most tin/lead solder combinations, melting does not take place all at once. Fifty-fifty solder begins to melt at 183 C -361 F, but it's not fully melted until the temperature reaches 216 C - 420 F. Between these two temperatures, the solder exists in a plastic or semi-liquid state.

Sorry dont buy it, it my have made a better connection but i dont think its a long term fix.
Ron

My friend as I have 0 experience on reworking a pga I understand your consideration.
For my basic knowledge every chip has a time vs temp graph in datasheet.
Heating an entire board is not safer without check every component datasheet.
180-200C may be a safer temp for all without temperature control.

Further I'll invest money on rework instruments.

Sent from my LT26ii

[ebbano]

^^ +1 and then some.

Back in the day, when it was considered worth the expense to try and re-flow a T4x board, even folks with a proper solder rework station found that it usually was not a long term solution.

I read somewhere that can be a problem on the board conductor not on the chip

Sent from my LT26ii

[ajkula66]

Do bear in mind that the later "dotted" boards can't be reflown, only re-balled.

This group includes *all* R52 and T43/p planars as well as some of the late T42/p ones.

[jronald]

Worth a shot, its not going to hurt anything, thats for sure.

Ron

[MrMaguire]

Thank you all for your lovely constructive criticism.

If I haven't "reflown" the BGA chips on the motherboard, I'd love to know what I did do.

The real star of the show is my beloved Dell Inspiron 1501. It took a trip through the oven the same day the T40 did, and it is (knock on wood) still working reliably.

http://s25.postimg.org/g9frc4v33/The_Mi ... _small.jpg <392x423, 132KB

Let us count the days. May 28th until today. 17 days?

And just to annoy anybody that I haven't already, it's running Windows XP.

This motherboard has the red epoxy around the BGA chips. When I took it out of the oven, it had turned brown in colour.

The cost of this procedure was: my time + my effort + a considerable amount of electricity.

I look forward to more positive responses from lovely open-minded people.

[ebbano]

Do bear in mind that the later "dotted" boards can't be reflown, only re-balled.

This group includes *all* R52 and T43/p planars as well as some of the late T42/p ones.

Wath s the difference?



Sent from my LT26ii

[ajkula66]

Wath s the difference?

Re-balling involves removal of the BGA chips and placement of new solder balls. Quite an involved procedure which requires proper equipment and knowledge, but is the only proper way of going about things of this nature.

Of course, you can do what the OP did with their planar nevertheless but I wouldn't trust that board in a system of my own, ever.

[ebbano]

Thanks ajkula66

But I'm referring on "dotted" board, wath mean?


I agree that a true repair is reballing but my premise is that's a game for me and that I cannot spend for a reballing kit much money than the pc value

This "oven cooking" method capture my attention as an affordable alternative but nothing exclude on future that I'll arrange a real balling tool

Sent from my LT26ii

[ajkula66]

But I'm referring on "dotted" board, wath mean?

Just re-read what I wrote above. It's fairly self-explanatory:

Re-balling involves removal of the BGA chips and placement of new solder balls.

In order to accomplish this, the dots must be removed first.

[ebbano]

Thanks now is clear .

Mine board has no dot on northbridge neither on atI gpu or southbridge, this confirm the board was already reworked?



Sent from my LT26ii

[ebbano]

From cooking let see the first run....

//images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/17 ... 631d0e.jpg

Sent from my LT26ii

MOD edit: picture WAY too big, tags removed.
Please read the Forum Rules, especially Section 5!

[ajkula66]

Mine board has no dot on northbridge neither on atI gpu or southbridge, this confirm the board was already reworked?

Not necessarily. It can just be a pre-2005 board.