Speaker reviews

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Navck · #1 Post by **Navck** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:00 pm

I notice in most reviews IBM laptops are given a below average rating for their speakers at "best"...
But when I listen to music on my T43, the only differance I can compare to my desktop with its Creative Inspire 5.1 5300 speakers + subwoofer + Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum layout (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?prodid=238) is that my T43 has slightly less ammount of base, higher treble (spelling) range, and can't go loud as my 5.1 system
Why would you give a laptop a below average rating when it almost is close as a 5.1 Speaker system (Sounds unfair to me in my view)
I hear "Biased alarm" going off in my head as they give every system with a 6800 Go an 5/5 review... *Cough*

Subject edited by Moderator.

emorphien · #2 Post by **emorphien** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:03 pm

Umm, I'm really not sure I can comment on this.

But there really aren't many laptops with very good speakers.

Navck · #3 Post by **Navck** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:05 pm

I know, but they "always" have to mention the fact that "IBM/Lenovo" NEVER equips "TOP OF THE LINE CAR SPEAKERS" in their laptops... But they're pretty decent in my view. Thats also why I see a T4x review with "Well it can game, but its speakers SUCK" and its given a 4/5 rating
But then you see a simlar laptop, but with a X600 for the GPU
"Well it can game. It must be great" 5/5 rating there.

fongj · #4 Post by **fongj** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:11 pm

I don't know what people/reviewers expect from laptops, but 1) for ultra-portables, why is anybody surprised if the speaker sucks... 2) for desktop-replacements, expect them to be better, but still... its just a laptop!!

That being said, I think my Thinkpad A31p (desktop-replacement) has awesome speakers... At 75% full volume, I can play music that fills up my whole apartment without the sound getting distorted; at almost 100%, I can wash dishes (kinda noisy the way I do it) and play a tv show with the Thinkpad ~10 ft away.

Navck · #5 Post by **Navck** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:16 pm

I just did a quick test on my desktop, T43 with same music as desktop, started at same time. I had half the speakers on the laptop side unpluged. I tested... I barely could hear any differance besides less bass and more trebel (That high pitched type of sound...)
Infact, you know when you take the same source of sound, play it through two "different" speakers at different settings/quality... You'll notice some "overlaping" of the waves and you notice this weird sound caused by it? When I do something like with my T43, nothing is wrong with it. I can only notice higher pitched sound.

Edit:But heres the thing
"Almost exact system to Thinkpad"
Well its a GREAT system. 5/5

"Thinkpad model here"
Well it can do pretty good for the price range. But its speakers suck. Or should I say speaker? 3.9/5 because it can't do good things with its speakers

Basicly two simlar systems (Specs wise), simlarish price. But the Thinkpad is instantly given the unfair review. Infact, even if the "other brand" system had bad speaker quality. They would NOT mention it. Unless its a website like Notebookreview.com/More professionish websites. Every other website mentions speaker quality for "THINKPADS" (Exclusively on some sites). Infact, one of them was a "parenting website"...

#6 Post by **RonS** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:40 am

I'm not one to really care about laptop speakers, my first Thinkpad (385XD) had the best speakers I've found in a notebook. My A21p had okay speakers. My T42p has mediocre speakers.

RS_003 · #7 Post by **RS_003** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:44 am

Must say my T20 / T21 (had a T21 badge but T20 specs

) had 10x beter speakers then my T42... and my T42 was a bit loose, so if i turned the vollume up the laptop vibrated

Anyway, T20 could go REALLY loud. beyond the point of pain in your ears

sugo · #8 Post by **sugo** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:00 am

There is practically no real bass on my t42 speakers. Not that I am expecting much from such small drivers.

Otherwise the speakers are usable, unlike most ultra-portables out there.

slagmi · #9 Post by **slagmi** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:32 am

My A31 speakers are definately 'listenable', in fact I think that's really why I kept the A31 over the G40 I had... Turn on the Tru-Bass & WOW in Media Player or the Speaker Enhancement in iTunes and tweak the EQ a little- All set!

On the other hand, the speaker on my X30 is annoying to the point where I won't turn it up more than 1/2 way. Ever.

Hey, Lenovo! Definately some room for improvement there! Work out a deal with Harmon-Kardon or Bose or someone who knows how to make speakers! Great place to spend an extra $3! Consider for a moment how that crappy speaker sounds in the executive conference room- next to a cheaper laptop with better speakers!!

As for the comparison to Creative...well, their speakers aren't all that great IMO...but if you can't hear much difference, then it doesen't matter. You probabally won't hear much difference between the Creative & Polk Audio either, so save the 100$.

emorphien · #10 Post by **emorphien** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:56 pm

Oh no, please H/K maybe (that's what my Dell laptop uses), but stay away from Bose just on principle!

pointfielder · #11 Post by **pointfielder** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:27 pm

emorphien wrote:Oh no, please H/K maybe (that's what my Dell laptop uses), but stay away from Bose just on principle!

Can you elaborate on the principle?
I have only heard good things about Bose.

Navck · #12 Post by **Navck** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:34 pm

Actually Bose is overrated to somewhat of a factor. PSB speakers are pretty decent

alpuzz · #13 Post by **alpuzz** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:06 pm

I just got a T43 and based on all the reviews, I was starting to become concerned about the supposed speaker quality or lack there of.

When I got my unit and fired it up, I was pleasantly surprised. I wouldn't go so far as to put the T43 speakers in the same ballpark as a 5 channel surround system, but I must say they are quite serviceable, and significantly better than the ones on my old laptop, a Tecra 8100.

--Al

DoS · #14 Post by **DoS** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:09 pm

My T43 speakers are extremely quiet. My T21 has ten-fold the quality and volumn. I don't expect to match the sound of my Cornwalls or LaScalas, but come on IBM....

emorphien · #15 Post by **emorphien** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:28 pm

pointfielder wrote:
emorphien wrote:Oh no, please H/K maybe (that's what my Dell laptop uses), but stay away from Bose just on principle!
Can you elaborate on the principle?
I have only heard good things about Bose.

Bose has won the hearts of many over the years resulting in catchy phrases like:

No highs, no lows, must be Bose.

or Buy Other Stereo Equipment

or "Better sound through Marketing" a play in their slogan "Better sound through research" which is a terrible joke if you listen to anything made by Bose.

alpuzz · #16 Post by **alpuzz** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:29 pm

DoS wrote:My T43 speakers are extremely quiet. My T21 has ten-fold the quality and volumn. I don't expect to match the sound of my Cornwalls or LaScalas, but come on IBM....

Hmm, Very interesting... It almost makes me wonder whether IBM is using several different speaker models in the t series? now, i've seen opinions ranging anywhere from "comparable to a 5 channel surround system" to "ridiculously quiet". I would almost hazard that subjectivity could only explain this to a certain point.

--Al

mdarnton · #17 Post by **mdarnton** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:05 pm

When I moved from my bottom of the line Compaq to the T41, the biggest disappointment was the T41 speakers, which put out 2/3 the volume, and sound, relatively, like tin cans.

slagmi · #18 Post by **slagmi** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:24 am

I've been inside enough T2x's to tell you that there definately is some variance from unit to unit and it is dependent on the speaker module itself. So it may be with T4x as well.

I've never really looked into what FRU's are better or worse though, but in general it seems to me the better speakers are actually in the older units.

There is certainly a subjective quality to judging audio, and everyone's opinion will be different, but I've never heard anyone say a Bose wave radio/CD player sounds bad. Occasionally a gasp when they see the size of it though! I bet if one showed up on your front porch you'd keep it!

Regarding the objective side, I imagine most laptop manufacturers won't be publishing Watts RMS, Signal to Noise Ratio or Frequency Response info anytime soon, mostly because the numbers are so dismal.

Of course, there will continue to be incremental improvement in integrated laptop speakers, based on demand for it.
Lenovo will follow, but here's to hoping they would rather lead!

MKD · #19 Post by **MKD** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:49 pm

I agree with Sugo's comment that there is hardly any bass at all. The sound is really quite disappointing. I didn't expect it to be great, but in my T42 even the ability to bring up the volume is less than you'd expect. I'd say the full volume is what you might expect it to be at about 50-60%.

rhema83 · #20 Post by **rhema83** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:04 pm

The onboard speakers are usable but is definitely not enough if you want to listen to songs or watch movies. Invest in a good pair of headphones (I use Sennheiser) or a speaker system (I am using Creative Inspire 2500 2.1).

ewthompson · #21 Post by **ewthompson** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:43 pm

I just got my T43 yesterday. The speakers are almost disgustingly underpowered. If people here are impressed by their onboard speakers, I'm forced to think there is some hardware problem with mine.

Steve007 · #22 Post by **Steve007** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:52 pm

ewthompson wrote:I just got my T43 yesterday. The speakers are almost disgustingly underpowered. If people here are impressed by their onboard speakers, I'm forced to think there is some hardware problem with mine.

IBM used cheaper components as the life of the T4x series went on. You hardly ever hear T40 owners complaining, likewise T41 and early T42 adopters.

I leave IBM tomorrow so I can start to disclose a bit of info here and there about the way things are being run

ewthompson · #23 Post by **ewthompson** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:55 am

IBM used cheaper components as the life of the T4x series went on. You hardly ever hear T40 owners complaining, likewise T41 and early T42 adopters.

I leave IBM tomorrow so I can start to disclose a bit of info here and there about the way things are being run

[/quote]

--interesting. (unfortunate, but interesting, I suppose)...do you have any idea what other aspects have been compromised over time (if any)...thanks.

asiafish · #24 Post by **asiafish** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:56 am

I have the Klipsh 3-piece system (2.5 something or other) that sounds AMAZING. Actually, it is very close to home-audio quality.

ewthompson · #25 Post by **ewthompson** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:08 am

I used a different sound source this morning and the speakers performed remarkably better. Certainly bearable, and in actuality I will be using headphones nearly all the time when audio is needed anyway.

Ted_E · #26 Post by **Ted_E** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:07 pm

ewthompson wrote:I used a different sound source this morning and the speakers performed remarkably better. Certainly bearable, and in actuality I will be using headphones nearly all the time when audio is needed anyway.

I'll put my oar in here.

I've always been rather a sound freak although my hearing at age 70 ain't what it used to be.

Nonetheless, the sound quality on my new (to me) T23 is pretty good up to the speakers. Even then Bach on a soprano or alto recorder sounds not bad (Michala Petri). But, realistically, what can you expect from 1" speakers?

I get pretty good sound quality from a pare of Sony mini headphones (not ear-buds). I have noticed quite a bit of variation in both loudness and quality with various headphones so it is worth trying different ones.

BUT, the sound quality from my fill size, fluid filled pads, Koss Pro-4AAA phones is superb with plenty of volume and excellent external sound exclusion. If you are willing to afford the bulk of a set of these or similar, you will not be disapointed. That is assuming the sound card (nevermind the speakers) of your machine is at least as good as that in the T23.

Ted

#27 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:25 pm

Is this true? I haven't seen anything to suggest this... I compared my T40 to two brand new T42s (a 14" and 15") last October and as far as I could tell the T42s were every bit as good as the T40.

I can't speak for the T43, as I have not yet seen one in person.

As for the T40's speakers, they sound pretty awful. However, I haven't yet encountered a business class notebook that has good speakers.

ewthompson wrote:IBM used cheaper components as the life of the T4x series went on. You hardly ever hear T40 owners complaining, likewise T41 and early T42 adopters.

emorphien · #28 Post by **emorphien** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:15 pm

K. Eng wrote:Is this true? I haven't seen anything to suggest this... I compared my T40 to two brand new T42s (a 14" and 15") last October and as far as I could tell the T42s were every bit as good as the T40.

I can't speak for the T43, as I have not yet seen one in person.

As for the T40's speakers, they sound pretty awful. However, I haven't yet encountered a business class notebook that has good speakers.

ewthompson wrote:IBM used cheaper components as the life of the T4x series went on. You hardly ever hear T40 owners complaining, likewise T41 and early T42 adopters.

I don't believe it one bit. I think the T speakers have probably stayed pretty much the same, but people complain about it more because a lot of other laptops are getting better and better sounding speakers lately.

I don't personally care, no laptop really sounds all that good, and I'd be using it mostly to hear alerts or incoming messages. I'll be using headphones most of the time as I always have.

#29 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:50 pm

I'd also like to add that while there are nicer laptop speakers available for OEMs to use, these speakers do take up extra space and add extra weight. I've said it before and I'll say it again: T series are built for WORK, not multimedia entertainment!

emorphien wrote:I don't believe it one bit. I think the T speakers have probably stayed pretty much the same, but people complain about it more because of lot of other laptops are getting better and better sounding speakers lately.

Navck · #30 Post by **Navck** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:33 pm

Well the only part sound will get distorted at on my T43 is at extreame high pitch frequencys and extreame low pitched frequencys.
Everything inbetween the extreames sound fine at maximum volume
Anything less than maximum volume (3/4 to 2/4) is fine at the extreame frequency ranges.

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