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Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

T4x series specific matters only
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irus
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Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#1 Post by irus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:18 am

if with the 479 socket there was a new 14nm CPU with latest instruction sets SSE4.2 AVX AVX2 etc. and integrated GPU wouldn't that be a great way to upgrade the laptop?

i wonder if someone like HOPE from 51nb.com can make a custom 14nm CPU with 479 socket which fits existing t4x motherboards instead of a t50 motherboard.

easy breezy way to upgrade.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#2 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:17 am

irus wrote:asy breezy way to upgrade.
And then you wake up... :roll:
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

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irus
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#3 Post by irus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:14 am

ajkula66 wrote:
irus wrote:easy breezy way to upgrade.
And then you wake up... :roll:
to the same old reality ? :eek: :eek:

no really there should be a processor instruction set upgrade made available at least.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#4 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:52 am

It's impossible unless you can design and manufacture your own processors.

Between the Pentium M and the Core i series is a major difference in CPU design that cannot be surmounted.

Heck, no one has even succeeded in upgrading a laptop from a Pentium M to a Core Duo.
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#5 Post by dr_st » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:50 am

Not to mention that the CPU is intimately intertwined with the chipset. If you could somehow pack all the new CPU technology into the same socket/form factor, you would still not be able to talk to the old chipset through its ancient interfaces. And if you could, it would tremendously bottleneck the CPU.
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#6 Post by Cigarguy » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:00 am

Spend millions of $$ for a marginal increase in the computing experience. Cheaper to buy back all the T4x in the world and exchange with a new machine from Lenovo.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#7 Post by irus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:07 pm

dr_st wrote:Not to mention that the CPU is intimately intertwined with the chipset. If you could somehow pack all the new CPU technology into the same socket/form factor, you would still not be able to talk to the old chipset through its ancient interfaces. And if you could, it would tremendously bottleneck the CPU.
look at the SSd upgrade. SSDs are bottlenecked but the performance improvement is tremendous.

irus
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#8 Post by irus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:08 pm

Cigarguy wrote:Spend millions of $$ for a marginal increase in the computing experience. Cheaper to buy back all the T4x in the world and exchange with a new machine from Lenovo.
why millions? how did that figure come about? HOPE made a t50 motherboard not for millions im sure.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#9 Post by irus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:09 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:It's impossible unless you can design and manufacture your own processors.

Between the Pentium M and the Core i series is a major difference in CPU design that cannot be surmounted.

Heck, no one has even succeeded in upgrading a laptop from a Pentium M to a Core Duo.
yea HOPE from 51nb.com designed the t50 mobo which was a 1st gen core series. it was working.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#10 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:16 pm

You'd have to ask those same people about it. There's a difference between manufacturing a motherboard to work with existing technology and microprocessors, than to make a new microprocessor....
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#11 Post by brchan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:56 pm

Making a new motherboard would make much more sense than creating a new cpu. You get all the benefits of a newer platform, like usb 3, hdmi 2.0, faster ram, gpu, etc, and you can interchange processors (assuming it's not soldered), as opposed to being stuck on the same platform. Also, something tells me it would take far more time and resources to create a new CPU than a new mobo. For one, you would have to test it very heavily to make sure there are no arithmetic errors, as well as designing + implementing the pipeline, cache, instruction sets, and so on. There really isn't a starting point like you would have with mobo schematics, and you can't base your cpu design off of other newer processors because the architectures are just too different.
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#12 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:40 pm

The components that were used to create the T50 board are stock, off-the-shelf parts, like the i5 processor, the chipset. the CPU socket etc.

Of course HOPE and his team needed to design and build a circuit board to put them all together, but that's peanuts compared to what's required to roll out your own processor.


1. You need access to an actual CPU design, which usually means obtaining a license from Intel, AMD, or maybe Via. Good luck with that. BTW, do you know that nVidia (the big graphics chip company) tried to ask for one from Intel, and the latter refused?

Of course, you can try designing one from scratch, but i doubt you'll get far. Try asking Intel or AMD how many engineers they have on their processor design projects, and see how their skills compare to yours.

2. If you manage to surpass the licensing hurdle, then you have to be knowledgeable enough to actually make sense of the data that Intel will be sending over. That means the CAD files, diagrams, calculations, etc. I'm sure I won't be able to because I'm just an engineering flunkie.

3. If you've actually succeeded in modifying the CPU design (and have it tested and debugged) congratulations, now you have to cut a deal with a semiconductor fab like Globalfoundries, Samsung, TSMC, Intel, etc. to finally manufacture your processors. Just don't ask me how much it's gonna cost because I have absolutely no idea.
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#13 Post by Cigarguy » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:06 am

^^^ So let's assume you can afford and hired enough engineers to do all of that. How much do you charge for a CPU? In what quantity? Let's say by some miracle of physics and engineering you create a CPU that is as fast as any modern Intel laptop CPU and is a drop in replacement to a T4x, you're still dealing with slow and limited RAM, SATA I speed at best, USB 2, etc. How much of a computing performance increase can you milk out of a 10 year old platform?

ajkula66 said it best "And then you wake up..."

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#14 Post by irus » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:07 am

axur-delmeria wrote:The components that were used to create the T50 board are stock, off-the-shelf parts, like the i5 processor, the chipset. the CPU socket etc.

Of course HOPE and his team needed to design and build a circuit board to put them all together, but that's peanuts compared to what's required to roll out your own processor.
makes sense why HOPE may not be able to do this.

Intel won't release its designs, that is the real problem.

There are open source Operating systems, I wonder if there will be open source hardware like mobos and CPUs.

edit: here is one open source CPU design. I think HOPE and others like him might be able to work with this. http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/syste ... index.html

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#15 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:05 am

Not using an Intel-compatible processor (like the SPARC-based one on your link) would make it useless for most people, because they run Windows on their computers, and Windows is only compiled for Intel (x86) CPU architectures.

AFAIK there is only 1 x86-compatible open CPU design, the Zet, but it only works with 16-bit software (DOS and Windows 3.1 in Standard mode), and only runs at 25 MHz, which is very slow compared to the T4x's Pentium M, which can run up to 2266 MHz.


Bottom line: I think this is the part where I need to quote from that popular song from Frozen~ "Let it go~ let it go ~" :lol:
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#16 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:05 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:Bottom line: I think this is the part where I need to quote from that popular song from Frozen~ "Let it go~ let it go ~" :lol:
Oh yes you are right and let it go really fits this occasion. This topic sounds like daydreaming for some reason.
As a matter of fact even if you want to put a Sonoma processor from T43/p/R52/Z60 (most commonly, Pentium M 780) into the previous T4x/R5x series, it still works but the clock speed will reduce and you still won't get NX and PAE and Windows 8, 8.1 and 10 will still not run on these machines. As for T43, I currently have a Pentium M 780 with X300 motherboard and now it is just VERY close to being capable to play 1080p video with ease and now I wish there is Pentium M 790 or something but that is just like this topic, it is not possible.
Don't get me wrong, there are other things that are proven to be able to hack. The most common one is to put a Xeon processor inside a Core2 desktop as Xeon processors are basically equivalent to Core2 Extremes and also are cheaper than the Core2 Quads. Even for that, you can only put a Xeon processor from that time period, not the newest ones that tops up the benchmarks.
_________________________________
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T43 15" 1.86 XGA 2gb fp W7
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#17 Post by TPFanatic » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:27 pm

If you really want higher numbers out of your Pentium M laptop, you can consider pinmodding. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads ... ide.81312/

They say you can't go too high because the voltage stays too low, but maybe something like IBM_ECW can be used to raise the voltage... and the heat, burn your lap, melt the processor. You'll be paying for liquid cooling when you can just buy a T60 and boom, you're already 50% faster than a T43. Or make a Frankenpad. Flexviews and Taiwanese keyboards are the only things still good about T42-T43, granted they're not graveyards of lightning bugs like mine, and you can get good quality Flexviews and the same form factor in a T60 or T61 Frankenpad.

I actually finished installing Windows 7 32 bit on a T42p, and so long as you have the right power management drivers to prevent hanging, and your browser has a Script Blocker, Ad Blocker, and Flash Blocker working, it's very nice for what it is, and I'll plagiarize ajkula's siggy: a glorified typewriter. And other people will recommend Linux.
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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#18 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:36 pm

I know that thing but unfortunately it is running Windows 10 so pinmod is out of the question as nx will no longer be supported
FYI, T60 has some nickpicks such as horrible speakers compared to T4x; and yes my T43 currently has UXGA IPS (These LCDs are backward compatible but NOT forward compatible)
There is also this honor for T43/p/R52 as the very first ThinkPads that can load the latest OS from Microsoft and the performance is good for what it is. I mean Windows Aero gets laggy if you use UXGA which is also there in Windows 7. Other than that, it is still usable. Also it starts 10 seconds faster than Windows 7 and much faster than XP (for some reason XP takes 1.5 minutes to start on sonoma platform)
Also in case you are wondering about the RAM usage, 1 out of 2 GB of RAM is used out of the box. It may sound horrible but you don't need more than 1gb of RAM space for office work
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
T43 15" 1.86 XGA 2gb fp W7
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#19 Post by TPFanatic » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:56 pm

7 32 bit is using a whole 738 mb of ram with this browser running right now.
lenovo "Super" T420 i7 2670qm WQHD 16GB
lenovo T500 P9700 Radeon 3650 WUXGA 8GB
lenovo T601F T7500 NVS 140m SXGA+ 8GB

Enable 2 finger scroll on any Synaptics touchpads with registry.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#20 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:58 pm

At least Windows 10 is WAY MORE old-hardware friendly than Mac OS X which a ThinkPad T43/p/R52 and Core Duo T/R60/p can only run snow leopard (Lion requires X86-64 Architecture which is not present in Pentium M and Core Duos)
The new anniversary Windows 10's requirements doubled the amount of RAM for X86 version (but I guess if you have 1.5GB RAM you are still fine) and I am still happy with the new minimum 2GB
Also what browser are you using? My A30 uses around 850mb/1024mb for this website under the second-newest version of Firefox in Windows 7 SP1 (the newest version no longer works with Pentium III)
_________________________________
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T43 15" 1.86 XGA 2gb fp W7
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#21 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:02 pm

TPFanatic wrote:7 32 bit is using a whole 738 mb of ram with this browser running right now.
703MB here on my T43pSF running W7 32 Pro. So yes, I guess that's an average for systems of this era within the given OS.
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Cheers,

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Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#22 Post by TPFanatic » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:34 pm

Palemoon, with U block origin (better than ABP) and noscript to block unnecessary scripts, like google ad services. Although I think I could live with 10's ram requirements, I don't use much ram anyway.
lenovo "Super" T420 i7 2670qm WQHD 16GB
lenovo T500 P9700 Radeon 3650 WUXGA 8GB
lenovo T601F T7500 NVS 140m SXGA+ 8GB

Enable 2 finger scroll on any Synaptics touchpads with registry.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#23 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:57 am

TPFanatic wrote:Although I think I could live with 10's ram requirements, I don't use much ram anyway.
Me neither. That's why I have Windows 7 on my T23 and A30 and Windows 10 on my T43 and OptiPlex GX520 (with Pentium 4 650 and 3GB RAM)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
T43 15" 1.86 XGA 2gb fp W7
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#24 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:02 am

ajkula66 wrote:703MB here on my T43pSF running W7 32 Pro. So yes, I guess that's an average for systems of this era within the given OS.
That depends on how much RAM you have in total. For Windows 7, under 384mb or 512mb PC133 you get around 300mb occupied after startup; under 1024mb PC133 you get around 400-500mb occupied; under my A31 with 2048mb DDR you get around 500-600mb occupied; and then under T43 you indeed get around that amount occupied; however under my T530i with x86 Windows 7 and 2GB DDR3 you get 1GB occupied due to the fact that the BIOS reserves 300mb RAM by default.
And if you are wondering yes the amount of difference may go into the page file instead as Windows tries to find a balance to maximize the usability of your RAM.
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
T43 15" 1.86 XGA 2gb fp W7
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#25 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:14 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:And if you are wondering yes the amount of difference may go into the page file instead as Windows tries to find a balance to maximize the usability of your RAM.
Not on any of my SSD-equipped units, T43pSF included. Paging file is disabled. I've had it that way for years now.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#26 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:05 am

If you have ssd then why do you disable page file? Or is it that you run out of space on your SSD? You know while 2gb is enough, it is not plenty
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
T43 15" 1.86 XGA 2gb fp W7
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: Custom CPU instead of t50 motherboard possible?

#27 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:35 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:If you have ssd then why do you disable page file?
Minimize the writes. Although I could very well enable it on the Intel SLC SSD that's in my T43pSF, it's just a habit.
Or is it that you run out of space on your SSD?
No, never. I'm very frugal in the respect of the amount of the stuff I install.
You know while 2gb is enough, it is not plenty
I know, but I'm not doing anything stressful on my oldies these days. My X601T has 8GB RAM which is plenty for my "extended" needs.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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