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Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

T4x series specific matters only
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TinkerMan
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Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#1 Post by TinkerMan » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:22 am

Hy, i have been a thinkpad fan for a long time, but never had money when they were made by IBM, so until a few weeks ago all my 4 thinkpads were lenovo models. So I just bought a refurbished T43p unit, works fine, it has Xp SP3 installed, everything is in pristine condition, including the battery. BUT, the USBs are dead, I knew it when I bought it, so no surprise there, the guy who did the refurbishment installed a NEC PCMCIA card which has 2 USB ports, which work, under normal conditions.
So this week I just bought a Samsung SSD, the 860 pro , 256 GB version, sata interface. I also bought a bay adapter made for the T43, a small 16 gigs USB drive where I put the win 7 files ( oem version ) ( I made the USB drive bootable ), and I went to work. After installing the SSD in the ultra bay adapter I replaced the optical unit with the SSD. Booted into win Xp, but no drive. I checked into device manager where it does appear. I restart the T43 and hit on F12, perfect, the drive does appear in the list ( wont boot obviously since its empty ). I restart the thinkpad , and still no drive .
I am at a complete loss as to why I cant access my new SSD even if parts of the thinkpad kinda sees the ssd. I even tried by downloading the Samsung Magician software for win XP, the magician 3.2 version. nothing changed.
Another problem I have is I tried to see if the USB drive boots in order to install win 7, but I didnt even reach the level where I select the drive where I want to install it because it gives an error, and tells me to check a cable connection, but the NEC PCMCIA card works, I already tested it in win Xp, it works fine. Again I have no idea what I need to do to make this work
Any help will be much appreciated
thanks in advance.
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RealBlackStuff
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:06 am

Welcome to the Forum.

The T43 was originally planned with/for SATA-drives, but as they were still scarce and expensive in those days, they had to change plans.
So they added a SATA-to-PATA converter chip to run the cheaper PATA/IDE HDD drives.
In your Ultrabay adapter there is yet another converter chip, this time from PATA-to-SATA.
These SATA signals literally cross wires, hence it doesn't work.

To remedy this, a SATA-mod is required, for details, see this:
SATA Mods! and this: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

Have fun!
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)

Check out The Boardroom for Parts, Mods and Other Services.

TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#3 Post by TinkerMan » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:55 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:06 am
Welcome to the Forum.

The T43 was originally planned with/for SATA-drives, but as they were still scarce and expensive in those days, they had to change plans.
So they added a SATA-to-PATA converter chip to run the cheaper PATA/IDE HDD drives.
In your Ultrabay adapter there is yet another converter chip, this time from PATA-to-SATA.
These SATA signals literally cross wires, hence it doesn't work.

To remedy this, a SATA-mod is required, for details, see this:
SATA Mods! and this: T43p SATA Guide (Beware pictures, 56k-ers)

Have fun!
I knew that a sata mod was required to replace the HDD with a sata, but the ultra bay too? this sucks
is there no other way for the ultra bay?
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#4 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 am

You may have more luck with older SATA II HDD or SSD drives, such as the Samsung 470 or 830, Crucial M4, Intel 510, etc.

Remove palmrest and wifi-card, then keep pressing on the big Intel chip under that card, and try to boot from USB.
If your USB still does not work properly, you may need to reball the Southbridge.

ajkula66
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#5 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:48 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 am

If your USB still does not work properly, you may need to reball the Southbridge.
This.

My experience with T4x series has been that once the USB ports start going out - usually a sign of an ailing Southbridge - one really can't predict how the system in question will behave.

My approach would be to source an external DVD drive, put the SSD in the UltraBay adapter and try installing the OS that way. If that path yields no results, you might have to look into a planar swap, or stick with the mechanical HDD.

Good luck.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

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TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#6 Post by TinkerMan » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:11 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:48 am
RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 am

If your USB still does not work properly, you may need to reball the Southbridge.
This.

My experience with T4x series has been that once the USB ports start going out - usually a sign of an ailing Southbridge - one really can't predict how the system in question will behave.
I was afraid you were gonna say that, unfortunately I have zero experience with soldering / repairing electronics. so this is out of the question.
My approach would be to source an external DVD drive, put the SSD in the UltraBay adapter and try installing the OS that way. If that path yields no results, you might have to look into a planar swap, or stick with the mechanical HDD.
I guess that would work, that is to use a DVD instead of an USB to install windows, BUT right now I cant even access the SSD in the ultra bay, it is seen by device manager, but I cant access it. it doesnt appear in My computer next to the hdd.
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#7 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:32 am

TinkerMan wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:11 am
BUT right now I cant even access the SSD in the ultra bay, it is seen by device manager, but I cant access it. it doesnt appear in My computer next to the hdd.
Does it show up in BIOS ?
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p,T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

Work in progress: X60T

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#8 Post by TinkerMan » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:56 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:32 am
TinkerMan wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:11 am
BUT right now I cant even access the SSD in the ultra bay, it is seen by device manager, but I cant access it. it doesnt appear in My computer next to the hdd.
Does it show up in BIOS ?
here are 4 photos

https://twitter.com/FullFro74455692/sta ... 1152856071
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#9 Post by olex126 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:04 am

I'm pretty sure RBS is correct, but try this anyway, just in case the drive requires formatting to be "seen":

Start>Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management. If the drive can be seen there, right-click on it and format. If it can't be seen by Administrative Tools, then I would assume the PATA-SATA hardware issue.

As to George's observation on the USB-Southbridge relationship, that has been my observation also. When purchasing any of the older T4x series, one of my first checks with the seller is to check the USB ports...if they don't work, I assume the Southbridge is starting to "go south", that the planar has a limited lifespan and will become a parts machine in the not-too-distant future, and discount the asking price accordingly. Most sellers will refuse to believe the connection between the two and just think I'm trying to get their dearly-beloved-but-now-obsolete T-series laptop for a song. I offer to show them the pile of parts-only T4x motherboards that have the same problem as theirs!

I have temporarily revived a couple of bad customer Southbridge boards with a hot-air rework station, but the units go back to the customer with the admonition that there is NO guarantee that these are permanent repairs, and they should start looking for another motherboard or another Thinkpad VERY soon,

Regards.

Dave
Previous Thinkpads: 701C A22m A30/A31p T23p x2 T30 T41 X31 various 750's 760's & 390's.

Current Daily Drivers: Various X60T & X61T's, various T42p-T43p's, x200 x201 x220 x230 W520 T601F LED (T9500/8Gb/250SSD/W7 Ultimate)


"Life Is A Journey...Enjoy The Ride!"

TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#10 Post by TinkerMan » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 pm

ITs ALIVE, ALIIVVEEEEE
yes, the last response was the winning one
I went into control panel ..... computer management, so, the disk was not initiated and the space un-allocated, thats why I couldnt access the drive.
so you can actually mount a cream de la cream latest generation SSD on an old machine like the T43p in the ultra bay. YES< its slower that the same SSD in a modern machine because of the pata / sata thingy, but it works.
Now I will have to find a way to install the WIn 7 on one of the newly created partitions
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#11 Post by mrtaufner » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:48 pm

TinkerMan wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 pm
ITs ALIVE, ALIIVVEEEEE
yes, the last response was the winning one
I went into control panel ..... computer management, so, the disk was not initiated and the space un-allocated, thats why I couldnt access the drive.
so you can actually mount a cream de la cream latest generation SSD on an old machine like the T43p in the ultra bay. YES< its slower that the same SSD in a modern machine because of the pata / sata thingy, but it works.
Now I will have to find a way to install the WIn 7 on one of the newly created partitions
keep us updated on the performance of this bcs i wanna try it as well

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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#12 Post by olex126 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:49 pm

Congrats TinkerMan! Glad you are good-to-go!

Just a couple of thoughts.... Since the USB-port problem has already surfaced, you may want to keep an eye out for other Southbridge-related problems, those being mouse-cursor freezing and keyboard-related errors and lock-ups. If the Southbridge is truly at fault, these issues will become more prevalent as time goes on, frequently necessitating a cold-reboot. Not even the power button or a Ctrl-Alt-Del will do the trick here... Both A/C and battery have to be pulled and re-inserted in order to get the machine to restart, and of course, losing any work you had in-progress! The re-start will temporarily cure the problem, and you will think all is well....until it happens again :banghead: !

These IBM Thinkpads are great Classics, but eventually they begin to exhibit their age-related problems as you are no doubt aware!

Good luck with yours!

Regards.

Dave

P.S. A couple of dollars via Paypal can go a long way to helping Bill (Sysop) maintain the Forum as the" Premier Go-To" spot for any Thinkpad-related problems. I KNOW he appreciates any contribution anyone can make to help the cause. Hope you find enough information in these forums to make it worth your while!

Happy Thinkpadding!
Previous Thinkpads: 701C A22m A30/A31p T23p x2 T30 T41 X31 various 750's 760's & 390's.

Current Daily Drivers: Various X60T & X61T's, various T42p-T43p's, x200 x201 x220 x230 W520 T601F LED (T9500/8Gb/250SSD/W7 Ultimate)


"Life Is A Journey...Enjoy The Ride!"

TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#13 Post by TinkerMan » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:03 am

UPDATE 1
I couldn't manage to install win7 from the usb pcmcia card, it wont see the card when not in windows, so I had to reinstall the dvd multidrive , but that left me with a problem, I wanted to install win 7 on the sd not the hdd, so I put the ssd inside a rack I had and connected it via usb, However the windows installer did not wnt to install wind7 on an external ssd.
I installed norton ghost 15 and created a backup of the hdd with the win xp, onto the SSD, afterwards I proceeded on doing a clean install of Win7 onto the HDD, which was successful, so now, I have win 7 instead of the win xp on the hdd.
this is where it stands so far.
now that I have win 7 installed, I can use the modern samsung magician app to try to copy the HDD onto one of the SSD partitions. if sucesfull, I will have 2 working partitions with Win 7 and on the SSD second partition I will have the backup of the win XP which I could try and revert the HDD to.
wish me luck
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ajkula66
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#14 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:22 am

Copying an OS install from HDD to SSD is a bad idea IME and more trouble than it's worth.

YMMV.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p,T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

Work in progress: X60T

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

TinkerMan
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Location: Paris, France

Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#15 Post by TinkerMan » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:56 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:22 am
Copying an OS install from HDD to SSD is a bad idea IME and more trouble than it's worth.

YMMV.
why is that?,
thats how I did some years ago with my W530, I barely had any money on hand, the new W540 was just out, and we all discovered what a scam it was with that clickable pad, so with all I had on hand I bought one of the last W530s last batch. but I had to buy it with a 500 gigs HDD, in order to afford the K2000M. 6 months later when I had money I bought the bleeding edge at that time the 840 PRO from samsung, and did just that, I cloned the hdd to the SSD using samsung magician app, which by the way, is aptly named, it works like magic, and now I am writing this from the very same machine
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TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#16 Post by TinkerMan » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:08 am

my bad I got them confused, its not magician who does the trick, its samsung data migration
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TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#17 Post by TinkerMan » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:06 am

DONE IT
data transferred Win 7 from the HDD to the SSD, and than opened win 7 from the SSD, works perfect

next step I am attempting right now is to recover the win XP on the HDD from a recovery point I created with norton ghost
wish me luck
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TinkerMan
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#18 Post by TinkerMan » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:40 am

VICTORY
I have functional Win XP Sp3 on the HDD and functional Win 7 on the ultra bay SSD
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Re: Please help, SSD in ultrabay wont work, also my T43p doesnt boot USB drive

#19 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:23 pm

With 7 on the SSD you will want to disable automatic Disk Defragging and check if TRIM is enabled. Instructions: http://mywindowshub.com/check-enable-di ... ndows-8-1/
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