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T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

T4x series specific matters only
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onespeedbiker
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T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#1 Post by onespeedbiker » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:08 pm

I recently acquired a T41 laptop. It came with a new, unpartitioned hdd, and I used a set of IBM T41 recovery disks to install the OS. The one issue I noticed is there is no recovery partition, not even a hidden partition. If I push the Access IBM button at boot, all I get is a link to the, boot to OS, boot to bios (F1) or temporary boot device (F12). I used some partition utilities and all it shows is one continuous partition. I have tired to install Rescue and Recovery, but I get a not enough room in boot sector error. All the files are there and the laptop works just fine, but it seems to missing one of the key buying points of an IBM laptop.

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#2 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:53 pm

How many CDs are in the set that you've installed the OS from?

Did the OS prompt you to enter the key from the COA ?
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

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onespeedbiker
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#3 Post by onespeedbiker » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:10 pm

There were 5cds and no COA was necessary

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#4 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:42 pm

onespeedbiker wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:10 pm
There were 5cds and no COA was necessary
OK that's beyond unusual then. If this were the case, I would know how to guide you. But now I don't.

One last shot: did you pre-partition the drive or did you let the OS do it for you ?
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

onespeedbiker
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#5 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:23 am

I let the recovery discs do the partitioning.

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#6 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:07 am

onespeedbiker wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:23 am
I let the recovery discs do the partitioning.
Well, you've done everything by the book from what I can tell. Apart from possibly wiping the drive and giving it another shot, I have no other suggestions.

Good luck.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

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Abused daily: X200s


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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#7 Post by w0qj » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:50 am

One last suggestion:

Use an external program and format your HDD to delete any and all partition first.

Our old T42 Product Recovery DVD's had a bug, where it did *not* delete any pre-existing partitions.
So if we did consecutive Product Recovery attempts on same HDD, you would get more and more partitions on your HDD!

This may or may not apply to your case, but it's worth a shot if you're having such trouble.
Good luck!
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#8 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:52 am

I found one article that might explain what happened. According to the writer, the T41 was among a number of Thinkpads that came with a hidden partition and no backup cds (and no way to create them). In order to get the cd's one had to order them from IBM. However, IBM had two sets of CDs. One set reinstalled the OS with the hidden partition, and the other did not reinstall the hidden partition, the thought being with the reinstall CDs, a hidden partition was not necessary to individual owners. If an individual (apparently this did not apply to enterprise editions) wanted the CDs that reinstalled the hidden partition, they had to specifically request them, or they would get the none hidden partition variety. Why did they do this? Who knows; I'm sure it made sense to someone at the big blue. :)

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#9 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:12 am

onespeedbiker wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:52 am
If an individual (apparently this did not apply to enterprise editions) wanted the CDs that reinstalled the hidden partition, they had to specifically request them, or they would get the none hidden partition variety. Why did they do this? Who knows; I'm sure it made sense to someone at the big blue. :)
Sorry but that's BS plain and simple. I've been dealing with restore CDs on ThinkPads for more than 15 years and have never heard of such a thing.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

onespeedbiker
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#10 Post by onespeedbiker » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:21 am

Well it sounded good. :)

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#11 Post by w0qj » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:55 pm

From our T42 experience (and previously phoning ThinkPad support hotline): upon purchase, your T42 did not come with any Product Recovery DVD.

Factory pre-installed T42 can create Product Recovery DVD set for you once, and only once.
You can use the Product Recovery DVD that you've just created to restore your T42 Windows (you'll need to manually delete all partitions on your HDD first for T42).
***But once this has been done, recreating Windows XP on your T42 from your own user-created Product Recovery DVD, your T42 *cannot* create another set of Product Recovery DVD.

[Edit: Corrected that T42 ran on Win'XP, and *not* Win 7 !]

Therefore you can have only one set of Product Recovery DVD.
onespeedbiker wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:52 am
I found one article that might explain what happened. According to the writer, the T41 was among a number of Thinkpads that came with a hidden partition and no backup cds (and no way to create them). In order to get the cd's one had to order them from IBM. However, IBM had two sets of CDs. One set reinstalled the OS with the hidden partition, and the other did not reinstall the hidden partition, the thought being with the reinstall CDs, a hidden partition was not necessary to individual owners. If an individual (apparently this did not apply to enterprise editions) wanted the CDs that reinstalled the hidden partition, they had to specifically request them, or they would get the none hidden partition variety. Why did they do this? Who knows; I'm sure it made sense to someone at the big blue. :)
Last edited by w0qj on Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#12 Post by onespeedbiker » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:30 pm

Of course we are talking about a T41, however it, turns out the T42 recovery discs worked very well on my T41. I found a set of recovery T41 discs that appeared to be different than others I have seen. The boot disk was a RnR boot disk and it set up installing the service partition. Once this was done, RnR installed the OS and IBM programs on my T41 hdd; the only issue using the T42 recovery discs was the need to load a different modem driver. I then installed the RnR software and burned a set of recovery discs (6 +1). Back to my original question, I still don't know why the T41 recovery discs I used did not create a recovery partition. I traded some recovery discs with theterminator93 in the past, and he indicated he would make his set of T41 recovery discs available for me to download, so I can test them on my T41 (different hdd).

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#13 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:05 pm

The boot disk is supposed to be Rescue And Recovery for these machines. While I have seen a different setup for the older systems in the past, I don't recall any T4x recovery disk set that didn't have R&R as the first/boot CD.

And yes, FTR, T40/41/42 and R50/51 can be used pretty much interchangeably on all of these machines. T43 and R52 are different animals.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

onespeedbiker
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#14 Post by onespeedbiker » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:54 pm

The other product Recovery disks I have (R50, R61i and now T42), after booting there is a blank screen except for the direction to insert the #1 disk, this includes a 7 (6+1) set I just burned from my T41. The 8 (7+1) (T2) Product Recovery disk set I used to install the OS on my T41 (downloaded from this forum), booted to a RnR program console and I had to press "Restore factory contents" to start the recovery process. Once done, my T41 booted from the hdd back to the RnR window, where I clicked Restore Factory Contents again, and this time it did a OS Product Recovery from the hdd (I suspect the first recovery only restored the recovery partition), and it ended with the XP desktop and IBM customization. I installed ThinkVantage RnR software, which allowed be to burn a set of 7 (6+1) Product recovery discs. As a test, I booted from the the newly burned Product Recovery Boot disk and it went straight to a black screen with the direction to insert the first product recovery disk.

I guess you can call all owner created Product Recovery boot disks as from RnR, but what I meant to communicate was this is the first time I have seen, the RnR console being involved with the recovery. Further, I had no problem with not being able to create a set of Product Recovery Disks, rather it was the lack of a Product Recovery partition, which now exists, but I was puzzled why the T41 Product recovery disks I downloaded, did not create a Recovery Partition (hidden or not).

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#15 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:58 pm

onespeedbiker wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:54 pm
but I was puzzled why the T41 Product recovery disks I downloaded, did not create a Recovery Partition (hidden or not).
Well, a corrupt image file could do that, or worse. That's just a guess on my part, though.

The important thing is that your T41 is now up and running, in all of its retro glory.

Enjoy that oldie.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#16 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:15 am

And apparently you CAN re-create Restore disks more than once:
https://superuser.com/questions/384658/ ... o-thinkpad
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#17 Post by dr_st » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:15 am

Good find. It's not like you couldn't simply duplicate the disks using any disk clone utility.
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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#18 Post by onespeedbiker » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:30 pm

Or convert them to an ISO and burn them at will; I have a growing collection.

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Re: T41 and lack of any recovery partition.

#19 Post by onespeedbiker » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:05 am

Well after all that, I used the T41 product disks on my R50 and they worked great; created a recovery partition and after installing RnR I was give the choice of making a copy of the product disks. My guess is the faulty install on the T41 using the disks was just a fluke..

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