T42 vs. T43 -- Update About Fan and Fan Noise

[chrisnyc]

I have just received my brand new T42 (15" SXGA+ Flexview, 80 GB, etc.) Thinkpad, and am in the process of trying it out.

First impression is that it's a sleek, beautiful machine. I partitioned the hard drive with Norton Partition Magic 8, which was more of an ordeal than I expected ; I was only able to create one partition at a time; and it DOES see the "service partition", and for each new partition it ACTUALLY MOVED the service partition and data ; I hope very much that it did not mess up anything in the process.

I'm having a little trouble getting used to the Ultranav touchpad ; will make a post on this later.

Now -- on to the main topic of my post. The ONLY reason I bought a T42 instead of a new T43, is because of all of the posts about the T43 fan running all the time, and bothering some people ; although in fairness a lot of people said that it really wasn't a problem for them.

Thus far the behavior of my T42 fan is as follows : when the machine first goes on, there is a slight "poof" from the fan, and then it goes on and stays on indefinitely at a very soft, low level. With virtually ANY background noise I can't hear it ; I haven't had too much of a change to get to hear it with "pin-drop" silent conditions, but it seems that even then, it is so soft that it is barely audible, and I think that I would get used to it and not be bothered by it. Think but am not sure. It is REALLY very very soft. Now I haven't yet done anything processor intensive, so I haven't heard the fan on higher settings.

But even when the machine goes onto "hold" (screen goes off, nothing being done), the fan continues. I have thus far kept the power settings on their default "Thinkpad" mode.

My question is this -- is what I have described the "fan noise" that people are describing with the T43? Because if it is, I really think that maybe I should return my T42 and get a T43, so as to have the latest model, and not one being discontinued.

Can anyone give me a definitive answer about this? Is the T43 fan really WORSE than the T42 one ? The "fan running all the time" I have thus far experienced with the T42 -- while I don't really understand it, is really not that bad at all, for me.

Thanks for any information from someone who can provide comparative information that will help me decide whether to return the T42 and order a T43.

[pipspeak]

I too would like to know how the T43 fan compares to the T42 for exaclt the same reason. I'm getting a little worried about buying a T43 for the fan issue but I'm also loathed to buy a T42, which is essentially 2004 technology.

I have a T40 and the fan pattern is exactly as you describe for the T42-- initial full speed for a few seconds, then throttles back to continuous very gentle running. Occasionally it'll throttle up to slightly louder during intense HDD or processor work, and occasionally will go off altogether. But 80% of the time there's the very faint background hum of the fan.

[Zeitgeist]

I was only able to create one partition at a time; and it DOES see the "service partition", and for each new partition it ACTUALLY MOVED the service partition and data ; I hope very much that it did not mess up anything in the process.

My question is this -- is what I have described the "fan noise" that people are describing with the T43?

1. As far as I remember the service partition is in the middle, i.e. between the C and D partition. Try the recovery process after partitioning.

2. There is a difference between the T43 14' and 15' models, the 15' are quieter.

[zeus1q]

Are the 15" really quieter? I had a 15" T43 and it ultimately proved too loud for my tastes which (combined with display issues) forced me to return it. Has anyone actually done a side-by-side comparison between the 14" & 15" T43 in regards to noise?

[Vindicated]

I have a 14.1" T43, right now it's night time, I'm in a quiet room and I can't hear any fan noise - it's also pretty hot as the A/C isn't working & it's summer time. When I first boot I can hear it, but when I'm writing reports and surfing the web, or even playing music - I never hear the fan come on (dosn't matter if I'm running on battery or AC. The CPU doesn't go above 36*C either; well okay if I put it directly on my lap it goes to 38*C sometimes - but the fan still doesn't come on.

I don't know if this is typical or because I shut off all the unneeded system services and did a few basic tweaks. I also don't know if running CPUIdle & SpeedFan are helping as much as they claim, either way I'm pretty happy.

Edit: After putting my hand in front of the hole I noticed air is blowing and putting my ear up to the keyboard I just barely hear it.

[nrj45]

Vindicated : you're lucky. I wonder I have such a laptop. My t43p in a 25°C room, powerplay set max battery, cpu downvolted 800MHz@0.700Vcore, the cpu wouldn't go under 45°C while the fan is blowing in its "2nd speed" (I mean higher speed that the one when cpu is under 40°C).

[ewthompson]

I've got a T43 (see my sig for specs), and I returned a t42 in order to get the T43. Fan noise is very comparable, with neither being very intrusive. The T43 seems to keep the fan on more consistently when idling, however it is barely noticeable after the first couple days. Regarding using the computer in quiet public places, I worry more about clicking on the keyboard while typing than the fan being too loud. In reality, neither should be much of an issue. I say go for the T43...get a nine cell or ultrabay battery along with it, and you're all set.

[jhonyl]

Try to undervolt it with CHC, as discussed in thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=11988

I too had the fan running all the time, but when I undervolted the CPU it stopped some times. It stops on 41C and starts on 46C. I wonder if these threshold temperatures could be changed, since my computer is usually at 44C, and usually don't go over 50C. The ambient temperature here now is 30C.

You should also consider the power consumption difference between the T42s and T43s. Batteries last considerably less time for T43s according to the IBM specs. By the way 15" screens also consume more power.


Vindicated: What is your ambient temperature?

[pipspeak]

I've got a T43 (see my sig for specs), and I returned a t42 in order to get the T43. Fan noise is very comparable, with neither being very intrusive. The T43 seems to keep the fan on more consistently when idling, however it is barely noticeable after the first couple days. Regarding using the computer in quiet public places, I worry more about clicking on the keyboard while typing than the fan being too loud. In reality, neither should be much of an issue. I say go for the T43...get a nine cell or ultrabay battery along with it, and you're all set.

Did you order your DRU off the Lenovo website? It's a model I'm considering and am also curious whether it has a 7K2 hard drive or the slower one. A little off topic but perhaps the 2687DRU is a quiet fan model

[chrisnyc]

Thanks, so it sounds like the consensus is that the fan behavior and noise is pretty much the same on both the T42 and T43.

So now I have to decide if it's worth returning the T42 and ordering a T43. I'm wasn't in immediate need of a new computer.

[ewthompson]

I've got a T43 (see my sig for specs), and I returned a t42 in order to get the T43. Fan noise is very comparable, with neither being very intrusive. The T43 seems to keep the fan on more consistently when idling, however it is barely noticeable after the first couple days. Regarding using the computer in quiet public places, I worry more about clicking on the keyboard while typing than the fan being too loud. In reality, neither should be much of an issue. I say go for the T43...get a nine cell or ultrabay battery along with it, and you're all set.

Did you order your DRU off the Lenovo website? It's a model I'm considering and am also curious whether it has a 7K2 hard drive or the slower one. A little off topic but perhaps the 2687DRU is a quiet fan model

The DRU comes with a 5400 rpm drive. I did in fact order from the website, under their EPP program.

Later-

EWT

[FreeSolaris10]

I have been using the exact same model..2687-DRU..it's got a 54k drive and the fan noise is there...little annoying...it's just contantly on at a lower speed and I can hear it in a quiet setting...

[Vindicated]

Try to undervolt it with CHC...

...Vindicated: What is your ambient temperature?

Right now it's 6:30PM and outside it's 91*F (about 32*C). Because my air condition isn't working and lack of a breeze, it feels hotter inside - feels like it's 94-95 F (34-35*C). My cpu temps is at 36-37*C.

I'm not a fan of undervolting or underclocking. For me, you paid for a particular cpu, why would you want to lower it's performance? It would be like paying extra for a race car only to downgrade it's performance to save gas. I rather take that car and strip off all the extra fluff which is what I do to my OS. The last few days I been playing a lot with the registry and window's services. I shut off everything that wasn't needed - including 56k modem, Ethernet port & Firewire ports, all the useless microsoft services that run on start up. Disabled all the animations, special effects, and XP gui theme (went with windows classic look). Plus I'm running CPUIdle Extreme, SpeedSwitch XP, and SpeedFan - each one is designed to optimize the cpu so it only works as hard as it needs to without lowering it's performance. CpuIdle seems to be working the best, I'm not sure about SpeedSwitch & SpeedFan; I'm still testing them out.

On top of all that I replaced Norton Antivirus with Nod32, which is not only more effective at detecting viruses but is also much lighter on system resources. 90% of the tweaks are originally designed to free up ram, but the biggiest side effect is that the CPU and hard drive arn't working on useless jobs - making it run cooler. the only thing I haven't optimized for battery life and lower cpu usage is the wireless lan chip (it's at full power) and my screen's brightness (it's at full brightness).

PCStats.com has an really good article on disabling unneeded servies and has tips on various tweaks. I used the tips from them and from ExtremTech: Hacking Windows XP (which has nothing to do with hacking, rather its about tweaking XP for maximum performance).

[Ground Loop]

I'm not a fan of undervolting or underclocking. For me, you paid for a particular cpu, why would you want to lower it's performance?

Undervolting doesn't change the performance -- at all.
Underclocking does, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

Why would you want to run undervoltage? Longer battery life. Less heat. Less fan.

Why wouldn't you want to? Reduced stability if you go too far in reducing the voltage.

CHC is the best thing to run on my laptop -- it has a significant impact on my battery life.

[pipspeak]

Thanks for the leads on tweaking WinXp... I never thought about disabling the modem drivers etc. Makes sense since I never use them.

I always do a once-through every month to make sure I have no additional services running, no spyware etc., and clean up the registry and I always find that the fan on my T40 is off for longer period afterwards. Within a few weeks, however, it's back to its old tricks.

[dukajoe]

I hardly ever hear my fan. Even in a quiet room, ill hear the "whrrr" once every blue moon. I have my power settings set to "battery power optimized" in ibm's power configuration program.

[zeus1q]

Plus I'm running CPUIdle Extreme, SpeedSwitch XP, and SpeedFan - each one is designed to optimize the cpu so it only works as hard as it needs to without lowering it's performance.

Is SpeedFan doing anything for you? When I tried running it on my T43, as I recall, it could only display the CPU temp and disk info and that was it (no fan control, no other sensor info). Maybe they've updated it in the last month to work with T43s?

That aside, I'd be very surprised if disabling some unused hardware and optimizing Windows XP could really lower the CPU temp 10C (mine idled at ~48C), but something to try regardless; thanks!

[testtest]

Undervolting does change the performance -- at all! ('cause it leads to a throttled cpu - at all) - read the specs of Intels Enhanced Speedstep Technology, if you doubt this

But regardless that in particular - i DO understand Ground Loops opinion.
I have had the T43p 2668-F8G / UC3F8UK for testing purpose during last week. It was a very disappointing test!

Some issues i've found - in comparison to other popular notebooks:
- The keyboards haptic "touch" is quite good, but the sound of it is "louder" than i remember of previous IBM notebooks. Still i rate it a premium keyboard, but obviously a slight "step back".
- The fan is running at 23,3 degree air temperature permanently at a low level. During normal business hours with a lot of surrounding noise and normal Officework, like writing letters with OpenOffice and doing some spreadsheets the "sound" of the fan does not really bother me - of course a personal opinion. With doing some additional office work in the evening with a much more "silent" environment (8 p.m) and some mixed work (resizing some digi-photos with Photoshop CS and ACD) the sound-level gets more noticeable and it gets more disappointing.
- The temperature of the upper side of the T43p with keyboard, touchpad etc. does not get very warm at 23,3 degree. A contact-free measurement with our infrared thermometer delivers a max. case temperature of 36,6 degree. That is in my opinion a quite good thing - the Asus A6VA and the FSC Amilo A1437G and Amilo M3438G i have reviewed last time got really hot, in comparison.
- The display is a drawback! It's average brightness is good with line current, with battery power it is a mere joke. With AC mains power i've got about 136 cd/m2 - with battery operation it breaks down towards 82 cd/m2. All attempts to improve that behaviour running on batterie power were rendered useless, since the brightness-meter already shows 100%.
- The "background brightness" is a mess too. At the right low corner i view a very dark area, inhomogeneous lighting. A test with a "black background" shows a huge amount of light through at the right corner too.

After all i seriously doubt that such a high-priced notebook will really be a
satisfactory buy. There are a lot of competitor-notebooks at a much lower price with a better display and a pleasant CPU-/Fan-conrtrol.

If i buy a 2,00 GHz notebook, i DO want to use its strenght and power - it is not my turn for paying money to a manufacturer and then have to take care for myself with third party tools, like CHC etc. and accept a throttled performance. Other manufactureres show it can be done.

Just my 2cent.

I'm not a fan of undervolting or underclocking. For me, you paid for a particular cpu, why would you want to lower it's performance?

Undervolting doesn't change the performance -- at all.
Underclocking does, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

Why would you want to run undervoltage? Longer battery life. Less heat. Less fan.

Why wouldn't you want to? Reduced stability if you go too far in reducing the voltage.

CHC is the best thing to run on my laptop -- it has a significant impact on my battery life.

[mg]

With doing some additional office work in the evening with a much more "silent" environment (8 p.m) and some mixed work (resizing some digi-photos with Photoshop CS and ACD) the sound-level gets more noticeable and it gets more disappointing.

The fan is too noisy in a quiet (no A/C) room.. And if you have some audio content that is a bit too low gain then max. volume makes it barely past the fan noise because of the undersized speaker/amplifier parts...

- The display is a drawback! It's average brightness is good with line current, with battery power it is a mere joke. With AC mains power i've got about 136 cd/m2 - with battery operation it breaks down towards 82 cd/m2. All attempts to improve that behaviour running on batterie power were rendered useless, since the brightness-meter already shows 100%.

You can change this in the BIOS.

[mysbca]

- The display is a drawback! It's average brightness is good with line current, with battery power it is a mere joke. With AC mains power i've got about 136 cd/m2 - with battery operation it breaks down towards 82 cd/m2. All attempts to improve that behaviour running on batterie power were rendered useless, since the brightness-meter already shows 100%.

You can change this in the BIOS.

You can also change this with the Thinkpad Configuration utility:
Thinkpad Configuration Utility -> Display -> LCD -> Brightness to High

[Inky]

If i buy a 2,00 GHz notebook, i DO want to use its strenght and power - it is not my turn for paying money to a manufacturer and then have to take care for myself with third party tools, like CHC etc. and accept a throttled performance. Other manufactureres show it can be done.

I don't know how easy it is to switch back an forth between an undervolted/underclocked state and a full strength/power state.

But, if it is quick and easy to do then it makes a lot of sense to reserve full power for instances when you actually need it--for things like video or audio work, gaming, compiling programs, etc.

When you're just working on a document in MS-Word or looking at a web page you aren't gaining anything by running at "full strength and power". On the contrary you're just wasting the batteries and producing unnecessary heat. I suppose some people might get a nice yummy feeling from just KNOWING that their CPU is running at over 2 Ghz even if that power is only running a screensaver. Maybe for them that feeling is worth the extra heat and battery usage.

And for those who keep comparing the ThinkPad to gaming laptops, that is like comparing a Rolls Royce to a souped up camaro and talking about how the camaro has "better specs". ThinkPads are a Rolls Royce for people who would rather have a fine quality machine with some CLASS, than a souped up Hotrod laptop from Alienware or Hypersonic. It's a different audience. Most business people would probably prefer a ThinkPad, whereas most teenagers would probably prefer a kewel, souped up gaming machine.

-Inky

[GeorgeP]

I don't know how easy it is to switch back an forth between an undervolted/underclocked state and a full strength/power state.

But, if it is quick and easy to do then it makes a lot of sense to reserve full power for instances when you actually need it--for things like video or audio work, gaming, compiling programs, etc.

Well said.

I run my T43 undervolted because it makes it run much quieter. It takes less than 10 seconds to switch the undervolting off. If I had any reservations about running undervolted (e.g., running on low batteries while using the USB port to power another device like a scanner) I could simply switch the undervolting off.

Besides, undervolting does not reduce performance, I think testtest is confusing undervolting with underclocking. It runs at the same speed, just using less voltage, less heat, and less fan.

G

[Inky]

Besides, undervolting does not reduce performance, I think testtest is confusing undervolting with underclocking. It runs at the same speed, just using less voltage, less heat, and less fan.
G

That's true, but the connection between the two is that you can undervolt even further (without losing stability) if you also underclock. In general, the faster the CPU runs the more voltage it needs for the electron flow to remain stable. But as long as you can quickly and easily switch back to full power the moment you need higher performance, it makes sense to save the "high RPM mode" for when you actually need it.

-Inky

[K. Eng]

You are confusing "undervolting" with "underclocking."

Undervolting merely reduces the voltages applied to the transistors, not the frequency at which CPU clock ticks. The power a transistor consumes is directly proportional to the frequency and proportional to the square of the voltage. Reducing the voltage therefore helps reduce power consumption.

The whole point of the Pentium M is that it throttles its performance to conserve energy. There is no point in running at 2.0 GHz doing simple tasks like Microsoft Word. On the other hand, you do want max performance when doing CPU intensive tasks like compiling. The Pentium M will run at full speed when you need it, and will reduce clockspeed when you don't need it.

Undervolting does change the performance -- at all! ('cause it leads to a throttled cpu - at all) - read the specs of Intels Enhanced Speedstep Technology, if you doubt this
...
If i buy a 2,00 GHz notebook, i DO want to use its strenght and power - it is not my turn for paying money to a manufacturer and then have to take care for myself with third party tools, like CHC etc. and accept a throttled performance. Other manufactureres show it can be done.

Just my 2cent.

[GeorgeP]

That's true, but the connection between the two is that you can undervolt even further (without losing stability) if you also underclock. In general, the faster the CPU runs the more voltage it needs for the electron flow to remain stable. But as long as you can quickly and easily switch back to full power the moment you need higher performance, it makes sense to save the "high RPM mode" for when you actually need it.

I don't know about how quickly and easily it is to change between default and underclocked settings, I only have experience with undervolting. I would consider underclocking if I knew of a way to get my T43's PM750 to idle at less than 800 MHz. That is overkill for Internet browsing and most MS Office- type work. But doesn't matter too much because undervolting alone provides enough of an improvement.

G

[dssjon]

Maybe im lucky, maybe its because i use the thinkpad power manager defaults, but my fan is comparable to an inaudable whisper at loudest. I never use it plugged in and cranked up to high power so I dont know about that though.

[hoya]

I've owned two T43's in the past few months - both 15" SXGA+ with 1.86 processors - and I've sold both due to the fan noise. it's real and it's a big problem.

as a result, I bought an identically equipped T42 (see sig) and set the T42 directly next to a T43: just typing or web browsing caused the fans on both machines to turn on, but the T43 made a much louder and more annoying sound. i think the pitch is higher on the T43 or something, because it was too annoying for me to put up with.

as long as you go with a fast hard drive, the performance of the T42 is very close to the T43. the only drawback I can foresee is resale value.

good luck!

[stevepre2005]

I have T43 and T42 side by side and watch both of their temp vs fan noise.
They are both 14 inch SXGA. T42 is 7200rpm hd and T43 is 5400rpm.

The behavior of the fan are the same. The fan kicks in when temp is about 45*C. But after it kicks in, the fan won't stop until the temp drops to 41*C.

Now THIS IS THE BIG DIFFERENCE:
The fan level of T42 when the temp reaches 45*C is "whisper". But the fan level of T43 when the temp reaches 45*C is "noisy".....

And another problem is, for T42, the temp can drop to 41 easily so that it is real quiet. But even if the temp won't go back to 41*C, since the fan is real quiet, it won't matter at all.......actaully...the noise coming from the 7200 rpm drive is comparable to the fan nose. But for T43.....well....my GOD....the temp just never goes back to 41*C. It always stays about 45, 46, and sometimes 43 at best.


I even did an experiment that I run PRIME95 to make the temp on my T42 goes to 60*C. The fan level goes up one level when it reaches 60*C, but it's still quieter than the fan level of T43 when T43 is in 45*C.


The FAN problem is really there in T43. But it looks like some people get T43 with fan noise just like T42. But half of the T43 owners get a noisy fan



JC

[zeus1q]

The FAN problem is really there in T43. But it looks like some people get T43 with fan noise just like T42. But half of the T43 owners get a noisy fan
JC

Thanks to hoya and steve for the info. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the fan noise on all T43's is similar--the difference may just be different noise sensitivities, althought it does seem that a few people (like vindicated) have relatively low temps. Anyone ever received a noisy T43, returned it, reordered and got a quiet T43?

[stevepre2005]

I know what is a quiet T43 since two of my friends' T43 are just as quiet as T42. It's definitely not noise sensitivity issue. It's too noisy that even a person with no sense can sense the noise

Oh....both of my friends' T43 are 15 inch.

It appeared to me that 15 inch T43 is quieter, and I thought all 15 inch T43 are quiet. But after reading some posts from this forum, it looks like the chances for you to get a quiet T43 is higher if you order a 15 inch T43, but no always since some people still get noisy 15 inch T43.