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New RULES of this ROAD - Member comments solicited :-)

T4x series specific matters only
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BillMorrow
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New RULES of this ROAD - Member comments solicited :-)

#1 Post by BillMorrow » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:30 pm

I think it would be a good idea to solicit member comments on the new rules..
so, please add your two cents worth, but please keep comments to the point.

thanks


General Comments

1. The primary purpose of this Forum is to act as an educational forum for the exchange of information for all things Thinkpad. All are encouraged to participate in this information exchange in the spirit of openness and fun. Keeping this place a comfortable and enjoyable place on the Internet to spend your time is strongly encouraged. Emotional outbursts and personal attacks are not.

2. Do not post links, model availability, or pricing information from sites that restrict their purchasing to specific narrow groups (e.g. EPP [employee purchase] or specific Education sites). The members of these institutions can find their information through their employer or organization. Posting the links or information without prior permission from Lenovo/IBM is of questionable legality. Those that are entitled to these discounts have no problem finding the site directly from Lenovo/IBM, their employee friend, or their school bookstore.

3. Don't ask how to get an EPP (Employee Purchase) or Educational Discount. If you are a member of one of these groups, ask them: they will know better. Questions about the Thinkpad are welcome. Questions about the the specific purchasing program itself should be directed toward your qualifying organization.

4. IF you must add a photograph to your post, PLEASE limit the size to 50k or less and place a warning in the subject line.

5. ATTRIBUTIONS: Portions of these rules were given to us to use by ArsTechnica (http://www.arstechnica.com) and other portions were done by Leon.


Cardinal Rules
screw-up here and you COULD be banned..

1. The Registration Agreement Terms must be respected in full. If you need to refresh your memory, you can see the agreement here http://www.thinkpads.com/registration_agreement.htm

2. No trolling. Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up. Substance is a key to not being labeled a troll, but substance alone cannot prevent you from being considered a troll. Substance with a dash of personal attacks will get you labeled as a troll.

3. Ad hominem and personal attacks are not permitted. Criticize the ideas, not the people. An ad hominem attack is a logical fallacy describing the attempt to discredit an argument by merely attacking the credibility of the arguer. Excessive flaming will not be tolerated. Users who verbally assault the character or person of other posters on a regular basis will be banned. Moderator's judgment applies here. "You are wrong" is not a personal attack; "You wrong because you are an idiot" is.

4. No pornographic, sexually offensive, sexually explicit, or objectifying material. Moderator's judgment applies here. We'd like for our readers to be able to read the forum at work and share with friends without fear of retribution.

5. Do not post links or requests for warez.

6. Respect the privacy of others. Do not post other's phone numbers, addresses, pictures, etc., without their express permission.

7. Each forum member may maintain only one account.

8. Each forum member must maintain e-mail. All users must provide a current, frequently read e-mail address in his/her internal profile. Note that non-moderators do not have access to your internal e-mail address (which is separate from "Display e-mail").

9. Do not place foul language in thread subjects.

10. No spamming. No commercial-oriented posts. The “For Sale/Want to buy conference is for NON COMMERCIAL sale of used ThinkPads and accessories. Do not flood the conferences with useless content or content designed to engage readers into forum wars or trolling.

11. DO NOT attempt to subvert, modify, or disrupt the normal flow or display of the Open Forum or its content.

Compulsory Rules
screw-up here and we might cut you some slack..

1. Use descriptive subject lines and research your post. This reduces the chances of double-posting, and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Also, scan the subjects of the last several days' posts to make sure you aren't duplicating posts.

2. Post in the right forum! If it's about the X Series, post it in the X Series forum. Even if it's only humor, an observation, or angst, if it's about something that we have a forum for, post it there.

3. Restrict the use of excessive foul language. Although we don't really care if people cuss (we have been known to cuss ourselves now and again), excessive foul language is likely to get moderated, if only because excessive foul language usually indicates that someone is utterly clueless.

4. No blatantly juvenile toilet humor. Moderator's judgment applies here.
Last edited by BillMorrow on Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
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She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

GomJabbar
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#2 Post by GomJabbar » Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:40 pm

I commend you on your forum, Bill. In addition, I welcome your "New RULES of this ROAD". In the past week or so I have seen posts in (3) different threads that proved to be quite ephemeral. The judgement by the moderators was welcomed be me in each case. I concurred wholeheartedly with their judgement.

In particular, your first point: "The primary purpose of this Forum", is exactly the type of place where I want to spend my time.

Keep up the good work! :D
DKB

wrfalk
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#3 Post by wrfalk » Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:30 am

I second that motion...
Don't let the best forum on TP's go to the dogs!!!

Bill

zelchenko
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1) Stop the trolls. 2) Use more descriptive subjects.

#4 Post by zelchenko » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:32 am

I don't read the forum often enough to have seen what prompted defining this policy. I read the forum either by scanning Subjects or searching for a particular topic of interest.

That said, I have started to abandon some websites that are overrun with trolls. I definitely appreciate the effort to not let this happen here.

Also, regarding subject lines--I agree that descriptive subject lines are CRITICAL. While I wouldn't go so far as to berate people for vague subject lines, I would point out to them that some people (such as myself) just completely disregard them and will not read them. If you want an idea at what makes a good subject line, just take a look at the stickies in this forum. Here are some other examples of acceptable subject lines:

"the lid of my T21 is shocking me (literally) !!"
"Need to find a good backpack for my T43p..."
"Is IBM going backwards in battery life?"
"What's the largest HDD that can be used with Win2k on a T21?"
"travel weight vs weight"
"1) Stop the trolls. 2) Use more descriptive subjects." :lol:

You'll note that all of these give you enough detail to decide whether or not the post would interest you or not.

Here are some more threads I probably wont read:

"How long does it take??"
"SLOW - My new T42???"
"T23 & CD/DVD"
"Miscelaneous Parts"
"T43p special question"
"Some T30 questions"
"AC Adapter Question"
"CPU speed problem"
"Bluetooth."
"New Thinkpad"

The above list was actually a bit longer, but I culled out the "marginal" ones. The common theme here is these require you to actually read the post to have any idea what they're talking about.
6477CTO X300 CENTRINO L7100 2G 60GB
2379DXU EXP T42 INTEL PENTIUM M 1.7 2M 15"SXGA 2G 60GB CD-CDRW

Previous experience (work-provided): T21, T23

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#5 Post by BillMorrow » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:49 pm

thank you all for the kind comments..

and the astute observations relating to subject lines.. :)
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

*
She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

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#6 Post by yukit » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:59 pm

BillMorrow wrote: and the astute observations relating to subject lines.. :)
Since I don't come here everyday, amount of traffic on ThinkPad T Series forum is such that I just scan the subject lines & # replies to topics. As zelchenko, I don't click on topic that are too vague or broad.

This is still one forum that I keep coming back regularly. Thanks Bill.

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#7 Post by BillMorrow » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:42 pm

yukit wrote:This is still one forum that I keep coming back regularly. Thanks Bill.
you're welcome.. :)
and i see that you are located in palo alto..

i lived in palo alto for about 10 years..
the final time in an eichler house at the south (east) end of greer road..

it is one of the few towns i would go back to, to live..
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

*
She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

yukit
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#8 Post by yukit » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:01 pm

BillMorrow wrote: i lived in palo alto for about 10 years..
the final time in an eichler house at the south (east) end of greer road..
I think you mentioned that when I first contacted you. I bought a T40p from you a few years ago.

I have a friend lives near Henry Seal Park. He is thinking about selling the small 3 bd house for $1M before the bubble burst (ok, off topic)

I will be sure to buy the next Thinkpad from you, especially if you are going to be in the neighborhood :)

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#9 Post by jdhurst » Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:47 pm

I am not sure exactly where to post this:

I just got another support question in my message box. This is close to Compulsory Rule 2 - Post in the correct forum.

People - with respect, I work for a living doing this stuff. I cannot (and will not) provide free support in my message Inbox. It is not fair to me and not fair to my customers. Please post your questions publicly for all to see. Thank you. ... JD Hurst

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#10 Post by BillMorrow » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:29 pm

jdhurst wrote:I am not sure exactly where to post this:

I just got another support question in my message box. This is close to Compulsory Rule 2 - Post in the correct forum.

People - with respect, I work for a living doing this stuff. I cannot (and will not) provide free support in my message Inbox. It is not fair to me and not fair to my customers. Please post your questions publicly for all to see. Thank you. ... JD Hurst
an EXCELLENT point..
i will modify the rules of the road and state that there is no personal contact to mods or admin for specific questions..
(or something along that line)
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

*
She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

MadeInJapan
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#11 Post by MadeInJapan » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:50 pm

I like the rules and agree with them. I hope it helps "clean up" some of the posts I've read...in regards to personal attacks, etc. Almost as if we're driving on L.A. roads around here sometimes...."Forum Rage?"

Anyway, I always appreciate you, Bill and all that you do and put up with.
Thanks for making this extra effort. :)
アイビーエム、シンクパッド T30 w/modified NEC 6500 DVD Burner, TP600E, Japanese TP535E & Japanese TP560. RIP T380D

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#12 Post by Kyocera » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:38 am

I think you should lighten up a little bit, you take this way to serious.
Been a member of many technical forums and never seen people so uptight that they want to slam people for their subject lines. Not everyone spends every waking hour staring into a plastic box. Not everyone is "familiar" with forums, they just come looking for some help.
Some people actually like to use humor in their subject lines, I do, because life ain't over when your "lappy" or your "thinkie winkie" goes on the blinkie.
Last edited by Kyocera on Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

zelchenko
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comprehension saves you from embarrassing yourself

#13 Post by zelchenko » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:48 am

Kyocera wrote:I think you should lighten up a little bit, you take this way to serious.
Been a member of many technical forums and never seen people so uptight that they want to slam people for their subject lines. Not everyone spends every waking hour staring into a plastic box. Not everyone is "familiar" with forums, they just come looking for some help.
You clearly didn't comprehend my message. I specifically stated that we shouldn't berate people for poor subject lines and was merely pointing out since, as you stated, people "...just come looking for some help", that they'd be more likely to get the help they are looking for if they clearly summarize their problem in the subject line. You'll recall I also said that there is a large volume of messages posted. I made this point because the only way for a person with a normal busy schedule has time to help people here is if they can scan the subject lines for issues they can help with.

Sorry you took my message for an invitation to begin a flame war (ironic, since the original post specifically frowns on this).

Sincerely,

Matt Zelchenko
6477CTO X300 CENTRINO L7100 2G 60GB
2379DXU EXP T42 INTEL PENTIUM M 1.7 2M 15"SXGA 2G 60GB CD-CDRW

Previous experience (work-provided): T21, T23

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#14 Post by cruzlite » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:55 am

Mr Bill Quote;

"I think it would be a good idea to solicit member comments on the new rules..
so, please add your two cents worth, but please keep comments to the point.

thanks "

--------------------------------------------------

Congradulations !

A most impressive effort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---------------------------------------------------

One of many great features is ...
the ability to edit ones posts perpetually (with no time limit...
Gives you the time to correct, edit, update, ...etc
T41-2373 9FU/Banias@1.7ghz/i855/1gb
60gb7200/14.1sxga/ATI9000
CD-RW/DVD/802.11abg/xp Pro sp2

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#15 Post by mattfromomaha » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:44 am

Looks great to me!

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#16 Post by tripper » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:57 am

I think the better subject lines is a really good idea, but obviously can't be implemented as a 'rule' per se.

An idea - why not fiddle with the phpBB script to insert a line that says please think about the subject. A good subject is: A. A bad subject is: B. I know hacking PhpBB is probably about the last thing on anyone's mind, but maybe there's an easy way to do it and keep a snippet ready for pasting back in every time you upgrade. Obviously you want a better board out of this at the end, so even though it's hAckY it may just give you that slightly better product you want.

1 list of 10 rules broken down in to 10 separate rules strategically placed can have a super effect.

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#17 Post by BillMorrow » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:09 am

i think you answered your own question..
fiddle with the code..?
not today, thanks.. :)

self interest will induce posters to use intelligent subject lines..
dumb subject line = no answers..
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

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She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

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#18 Post by yogibare143 » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:03 pm

I'm new to Forum and really liket it so far. I fimly belive you need a good set of rules to follow. Another Forum I am member of is 90% petty bickering.

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#19 Post by DenverBrian » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:22 am

tripper wrote:I think the better subject lines is a really good idea, but obviously can't be implemented as a 'rule' per se.

An idea - why not fiddle with the phpBB script to insert a line that says please think about the subject. A good subject is: A. A bad subject is: B. I know hacking PhpBB is probably about the last thing on anyone's mind, but maybe there's an easy way to do it and keep a snippet ready for pasting back in every time you upgrade. Obviously you want a better board out of this at the end, so even though it's hAckY it may just give you that slightly better product you want.

1 list of 10 rules broken down in to 10 separate rules strategically placed can have a super effect.
How about this for an easier way to force more descriptive subject lines: Prohibit subject lines of fewer than x characters - say, 20.

Or, if someone can actually come up with a descriptive subject line in 20 characters or less, maybe an intercept with an "are you sure?" yes/no before the short subject line can go through.

Let's face it, "A question," "Congratulations!," etc. are probably the kinds of subject lines you're trying to avoid - and what they all have in common is, they're short.

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Comments on the new Rules

#20 Post by jd2020 » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:26 pm

I have no problem with these rules. I welcome the update.

I agree the "subject" issue is a concern, but one that is difficult at best to enforce. Perhaps the best reward for posts like "A Thinkpad Question" is for them not to be answered. Perhaps people will get the point.

Bill, thanks for all you do here with thinkpads.com!
Current:
T43 2668-4DU - 1.86 PM750 | 14" SXGA+ x300 | 1GB | 100GB-7200(UG) | CDRW/DVD | Intel BG
T30 2366-61U - 1.3 P4M | 14" XGA R7500 | 512MB | 20GB | CDRW

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Re: Comments on the new Rules

#21 Post by NS » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:25 pm

I hoped that the admins could add this into the rules.
*No slaps on forum leaders*,
*No discussion of moderator action in public, if you feel that you have been unfairly treated, please do not hesitate to contact the admin*

In this forum, we should respect each other especially to those who has a responsibility. :-)

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#22 Post by billymm » Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:05 am

In addition to DenverBrian's idea of not allowing subject lines to be one work or too short.

Is to make them descriptive by model, area of problem, problem
for eg "T40p-HDD-makes squeaky noise on boot"

This way if you are searching for HDD problems they are easier to find
T40/P 2373 G1M

Paul Pennington
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#23 Post by Paul Pennington » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:29 pm

On subject lines:

I think you should recommend, on all your forums, that posters include the model number in brackets at the beginning of the subject line. For example:

[T42] Starting Recovery CD's

BillMorrow
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#24 Post by BillMorrow » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:47 pm

Paul Pennington wrote:On subject lines:

I think you should recommend, on all your forums, that posters include the model number in brackets at the beginning of the subject line. For example:

[T42] Starting Recovery CD's
billymm wrote:In addition to DenverBrian's idea of not allowing subject lines to be one work or too short.

Is to make them descriptive by model, area of problem, problem
for eg "T40p-HDD-makes squeaky noise on boot"

This way if you are searching for HDD problems they are easier to find
ok, gentlemen..

your suggestions sound good..

so i will hand you the job on sending me the text you think should be added and where it should be added.. :)

model number if appropriate..
and
subject line is already a bit of an issue since most want them to be more descriptive yet so may users don't bother..
and there are the trolls and the like who want to write a subject line like a news broadcast teaser..
"WE'RE ALL DEAD, DEAD!!, but first this commercial message"

so any proposed new rules need to fit in with whats there, now..

send me a PM when you have something to show me.. :)
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

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She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

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