Told IBM the T43p Fan SUCKS!, or BLOWS rather..

Message

Rhino · #1 Post by **Rhino** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:38 pm

While I have posted all over this board with regards to my fan problems on my T43p, I decided to call IBM and tell them what I think of the fan in this $3,000 portable computer box machine.

After explaining the problem with 2 reps and a supervisor, it was clear to me that they do not think there is a problem with the fans. They "know" that they are loud, however they say that "these machines have features that need a powerful fan to constantly run in order to stay cool".

They said I can return or exchange the laptop if I was unhappy. So, that is most likely what I will do. Blah, I wish the fan would just shut up so I could be a happy portable machine box user!

</rant>

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:49 pm

You have posted an interesting message.

1. It is pointless to turn the fan off. What do you wish to do - cook your CPU into a pot of useless silicon?

2. I do however, feel for you in terms of the loudness. My fan (T41 Dothan) runs all the time but softly most of the time and more loudly when the CPU is hot and needs cooling. It is too bad IBM engineered a loud, powerful fan to cool the CPU to the point it is objectionably noisy.

I just do not agree with turning the fan off. It is there because it is needed.
... JD Hurst

keku · #3 Post by **keku** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:53 pm

Here we are talking about T43p .. so don't compare T41 or T42.
I know T41 and 42 don't have this problem

T43P gets really hot that you can't just keep it on your lap .. then what's the point of laptop. and when call this sucky IBM support they can't do any thing just change motherboard twice for nothing.
After waiting for one and half hour in waiting Q of IBM customer satisfaction line they won't return coz it has been 40 days since this laptop was invoiced.

Rhino · #4 Post by **Rhino** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:56 pm

1. It is pointless to turn the fan off. What do you wish to do - cook your CPU into a pot of useless silicon?

Not turn the fan off, but change the setings so it runs a little lower. Currently, it runs at about 65% speed/sound no matter what I am doing or not doing on the pc. This causes a stream of cold air to be blown out the side of the laptop. While I am not a rocket scientist, this makes me think that there is no point to the fan running at such a high level. Why not let the fan run at ~30% until there is heat, then kick it up into annoyance levels.

Absolutely agree that the fan is critical to have and have running. By no means it should ever by completely shut off.

nrj45 · #5 Post by **nrj45** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:57 pm

see the 5th post of this thread :
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14580

dssjon · #6 Post by **dssjon** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:59 pm

Unless you are an running math and engineering programs there is no need for a T43p, IMHO. I am perfectly satisfied with my T43, it runs fast enough and is quiet.

Ground Loop · #7 Post by **Ground Loop** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:58 pm

The outstanding mystery is indeed WHAT makes the fan run so fast.

It's not heat. Temps read low, and air blows cold. There is, as you said, no need to run the fan this fast and loud.

My Fujitsu runs the fan just fast enough to keep the air warm/hot. The CPU stays cool, and there's only noise when it's crunching numbers. That's how it should be.

I'd love to know what algorithm controls the T43 fan speed.

nrj45 · #8 Post by **nrj45** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:04 pm

Ground Loop wrote: I'd love to know what algorithm controls the T43 fan speed.

Very simple. Open your t43/p, remove keyboard, palmrest, wifi card (to see the south bridge), take another fan and "fan" the chipsets. You will see the same thing as I saw. After 2-3 minutes of fanning, the t43/p fan will stop.

The t43p blows cold air because the cooling system take heat from cpu/gpu and the fan is also triggered by the chipsets temperature sensors. But there is no cooling system at all on the chipsets (but the constant airflow through the case).

For further information, go see this thread : http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14580

stevepre2005 · #9 Post by **stevepre2005** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:14 pm

nrj45,

Looks like you are a very hands-on person.

Can you think of any reason why some T43 are quiet?

I had a noisy T43 which I ended up return it and get a T42. But I have also seen 2 quiet T43 from my friends, though. Those 2 are as quiet as my T42. And also, your theory does not explain why T43's kicking off the fan for different levels matches pretty well for the CPU temp.

Even though I am not a T43 owner anymore, I am still interested in why some of the T43 are quiet and some are very noisy.

nrj45 · #10 Post by **nrj45** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:50 pm

stevepre2005 wrote:Can you think of any reason why some T43 are quiet?

I don't know for 15'' models (that seems to be more quiet than 14''). Perhaps, the construction is better ? Is there some series that have different component from other manufacturer ? There is too many parameters to know why there is some quiet t43/p and other not.
The things that were not very well done (my opinion) in my t43p were :
- The DIE of the northbridge is very little (not more than 1cm2). They could put a little heat spreader to limit the problem and increase passive cooling ability.
- The southbridge is covered by the wifi card (3-4mm between them)
Both chipsets are hot, not well cooled and MONITORED.
Another thing that shocked me : look at the fan construction. It doesn't take cold air from inside the case at all. it takes cold air from the little hole at the top of the jacks (mic and ear). So when the fan is on, it doesn't make any airflow through the case.
Summary : the chipsets are triggering a fan that doesn't cool them.

ASAP I redo my homemade chipset cooling solution with copper materials i will post results (because now the solution is better than nothing but not enough).

krma-thkpds · #11 Post by **krma-thkpds** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:33 pm

I really don't know what is all the noise around the fan. I have t43p 2,13GHz and fan starts at about 45°C at low speed (the air flow from the computer is a bit hottish) and under full load it fans like all fans under full load (hot air, maximum speed).

It doesn't make me any trouble, it is not too loud. It is not that it is dead quiet either, but what should one expect on machine so powerful? I don't think there anything wrong with my fan at all.

And what else? In my opinion all the "fan problem reputation" was made by everyone who is bothered with a few decibels too high.

Anyway the working environment is never so quiet that one would hear the fan. And IF somewhere is, you can always get some mp3s and you'll simply drown the fan in the music.

mg · #12 Post by mg » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:55 pm

krma-thkpds wrote:Anyway the working environment is never so quiet that one would hear the fan.

?!? Where are you working?

Rhino · #13 Post by **Rhino** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:49 pm

nrj45 wrote: Another thing that shocked me : look at the fan construction. It doesn't take cold air from inside the case at all. it takes cold air from the little hole at the top of the jacks (mic and ear). So when the fan is on, it doesn't make any airflow through the case.
Summary : the chipsets are triggering a fan that doesn't cool them.

I noticed this too.

While the fan is working hard, take out the slim-bay drive/battery and leave it open. Then put your fingers next to the open sli-bay slot. You can feel the system sucking in air, which suggests that when the bay is used, much needed air is having trouble entering. We are talking at opposite ends of the laptop.

wiesl · #14 Post by **wiesl** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:59 am

Rhino wrote:While I have posted all over this board with regards to my fan problems on my T43p, I decided to call IBM and tell them what I think of the fan in this $3,000 portable computer box machine.

After explaining the problem with 2 reps and a supervisor, it was clear to me that they do not think there is a problem with the fans. They "know" that they are loud, however they say that "these machines have features that need a powerful fan to constantly run in order to stay cool".

They said I can return or exchange the laptop if I was unhappy. So, that is most likely what I will do. Blah, I wish the fan would just shut up so I could be a happy portable machine box user!

</rant>

Hello!

Yesterday I compared the fans of a T41 (2373-GG4) with a T43p (2668-G7U) and they are nearly the same. It looks like that the T41 fan (production was in 10/2005) is only a little bit more quiet than the T43p, but it is really not much!!!!

Are there such big differences on the fan (other manufacturer?) between different T43/T43p?

Ciao,
Wiesl

stevepre2005 · #15 Post by **stevepre2005** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:39 am

"Are there such big differences on the fan (other manufacturer?) between different T43/T43p? "

wiesl,

Yes...a lot different between different T43. I guess you are lucky to have a quiet one.

You can look at this in another way: Have you seen anybody complaining about the fan noise for T42 or T41? But why all of a sudden people are complaining about the fan noise of T43? Things happen for a reason....and the reason is, it is really loud.

I had one that is so noisy that I had to return it and get a T42. When I run full load for the T42 to let the temp goes to 61 degree (I had CHC installed, so it won't go any higher), and the fan noise at that time is even much quiet than my T43 running at 44 degree.

Trust me, T43 always runs at 44, 45, 46 degree even with CHC on. It's blowing so hard that I feel so embarrassed in a meeting room. But for T42, well....I can run some heavy job during the meeting and nobody noticed the fan noise.

But my friends' T43 (two of them, 15 inch) are just as quiet as my T42. And this is the mystery that I want to find out.

wiesl · #16 Post by **wiesl** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:09 am

stevepre2005 wrote:"Are there such big differences on the fan (other manufacturer?) between different T43/T43p? "

wiesl,

Yes...a lot different between different T43. I guess you are lucky to have a quiet one.

You can look at this in another way: Have you seen anybody complaining about the fan noise for T42 or T41? But why all of a sudden people are complaining about the fan noise of T43? Things happen for a reason....and the reason is, it is really loud.

I had one that is so noisy that I had to return it and get a T42. When I run full load for the T42 to let the temp goes to 61 degree (I had CHC installed, so it won't go any higher), and the fan noise at that time is even much quiet than my T43 running at 44 degree.

Trust me, T43 always runs at 44, 45, 46 degree even with CHC on. It's blowing so hard that I feel so embarrassed in a meeting room. But for T42, well....I can run some heavy job during the meeting and nobody noticed the fan noise.

But my friends' T43 (two of them, 15 inch) are just as quiet as my T42. And this is the mystery that I want to find out.

On some benchmarks and compile tasks I had temperatures up to >90°C, with less blowing. (Ok, less blowing means higher temperature).

I think we should figure out if depends on the following:
*) BIOS Version (I'm running 1.22 on my T43p)
*) Fan Hardware (Are there different fans in the T43 series, which manufacturer)
*) Power Settings (Which Power settings are enabled)
*) ......

Ciao,
Wiesl

krma-thkpds · #17 Post by **krma-thkpds** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:33 am

mg wrote:?!? Where are you working?

Only place where you could hear the fan is meeting room, and even there you mostly talk to your collegues so the fan shouldn't be much of a distraction.

I mostly work at home or at univerzity and dont't seem to be even noticing the fan.

nrj45 · #18 Post by **nrj45** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:41 am

Please stop discussing whether t43ps are loud or not. We have found the problem and a piece of solution. So please let us discussing that topic...

Ground Loop · #19 Post by **Ground Loop** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:30 pm

krma-thkpds wrote:
mg wrote:?!? Where are you working?
Only place where you could hear the fan is meeting room, and even there you mostly talk to your collegues so the fan shouldn't be much of a distraction.

This shows that you really have no idea the extent of the problem, then.

In a meeting of 13 people, the T43 fan is louder than the projector, and drowning out every other laptop there. This isn't "slightly louder" or "measurably louder", but "Can you please turn off your laptop" loud.

hoya · #20 Post by **hoya** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:46 pm

My first two T43s were so loud that I sold them on eBay, but my third T43 is comparable to my T42 (nearly silent whooshing of air).

I had a hunch that Lenovo would fix the fan in the August 2005 models and so far I'm right. I just read a post by some user who recently bought a T43p with a 2.26 and 100gb 7200rpm drive, and his was QUIETER than his previous T43p.

my advice? return or sell your existing T43p and buy one of the newer models (see the TABOOK).

Told IBM the T43p Fan SUCKS!, or BLOWS rather..

Told IBM the T43p Fan SUCKS!, or BLOWS rather..

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