T20 IDE interface controller and HDD options?

[l3stat]

Hi all, noob here, searched quite a few posts before this post. I've an ageing T20, that's running perfectly fine. Not wishing to shell out for a new PC, since I use it only for web browsing, music, getting some work done, I'll figure I'll just slap in a new HDD, until it "goes" gracefully.

The laptop currently has a 20GB inside. I'd want to make an one-off but really large HDD upgrade, like 100/120GB. I understand that the T20 probably doesn't have the fastest of specs compared to current machines, and as such, don't wish to overkill on the new HDD's features (like SATA options). Being a noob, hope to get some advice.

What IDE interface controller goes into the T20? I went through countless pages on the IBM/Lenovo website and Google pages, no good. Some old sites tout Ultra-DMA/ATA-33, but I kinda doubt their accuracy. Anyone has a definitive answer on this? I guess this would be a limiting factor in the speed of the HDD I can get.

I've also read that some guys use 5.4/7.2krpm drives in their T21/2/3s. I don't know if the T20 is all that different from the T21/2/3s, in terms of cooling abilities. Do y'all experience higher temperatures with your faster drives (>4,200rpm), and is it that noticeable? Or better yet, has anyone tried a faster drive in a T20? The laptop is desk-bound, so battery performance is not an issue. Having tried 4,200rpm, I'll definitely want to get a faster drive, but am concerned about heating issues. Am I right to also say that the IDE controller limits the overall data transfer speed (if it's a, say, 66MB/s drive when the laptop int. controller is ATA-33)?

Lastly, if reliability is of utmost importance, would brand would you recommend for a HDD? Toshiba or Hitachi?

Thanks a lot folks!

[verktyg]

I put a Hitachi 60G 7200RPM HDD with 8MB of cache in my T20 and it made a world of difference in performance. Later I pulled that drive and put it in my X31 and replaced it with a Toshiba 40G 5400 HDD with 16MB of cache.

The performance of both drives is similar but the Hitachi is a lot more quiet.

[l3stat]

I think I found the answer to one of my own questions. My T20 comes with a Ultra DMA mode 2/ATA-33 interface controller, according to hardware manager in the control panel. I was thinking the controller was running at a lower spec to suit the HDD, but since the 20GB is considerably newer than the laptop, unlikely. Which limits my choices to HDDs that have sustainable data transfer rates up to 33MB/s only if I don't want to pay for benefits I can't enjoy.

verktyg: With both drives, did you feel a noticeable increase in temperature? Like discomfort on your left palm after extended use? Another consideration I have is that I leave the laptop running for BitTorrents, for days at times, definitely don't want the OS to force a shutdown of the system.

In your opinion, is the incremental performance of the 7,200rpm over the the 5,400 noticeable/significant? The 7,200rpm is definitely more attractive in terms of being faster, and more likely being useful in a PC after this laptop dies. But of course, faster HDD, more heat. Tsk tsk...

[verktyg]

I'm not sure where you found your information but I was under the impression that the T20 series TPs have Ultra DMA 66 or maybe even ATA 100 IDE controllers.

Until the last few years with the development of faster system BUSes, the whole issue of Ultra DMA was more advertising bunk than reality (especially ATA 133) because no matter how fast the IDE controllers ran, they were still limited to the throughput capacity of the PCI BUS. The numbers bantered around are "burst" rates not continuous throughputs.

Up until recently, most HDDs were limited to 512k to 2MB of cache. The newer 5400 & 7200 RPM HDDs with 8 to 16MB of cache provide a major performance boost even in old PIO 4 16MB systems. The faster drives with more cache perform better in most PCs.

I found the Hitachi 7K60 60g 7200RPM HDD ran cooler and more quiet than the original Hitachi 6G HDD.

Check out this link:

http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib. ... leHDDs.pdf

[l3stat]

Well, I checked the Device Manager in control panel, and looked through properties on the IDE controller. The details are found under properties for the primary and secondary controllers. Can you check yours? Perhaps mine's an anomaly!

But I wouldn't think that the PCI bus throughput would be a limiting factor if it was 127MBps. Oh wait. Or is that in Mbps?

Thanks for interesting read! I'll try to dig up more stuff on running temperatures, which they don't list!

[monkey243]

I recommend for Hitachi 5K100 series.The speed is good enough for ATA33 HDD data transfers interface.It is also not so hot as 7200RPM HDD.
Depending on T20 cooling system is not good.7200RPM HDD is too hot too T20.Performace of 7200rpm HDD is limited in T20's ATA33 interface.

[verktyg]

I recommend for Hitachi 5K100 series.The speed is good enough for ATA33 HDD data transfers interface.It is also not so hot as 7200RPM HDD.
Depending on T20 cooling system is not good. 7200RPM HDD is too hot too T20. Performace of 7200rpm HDD is limited in T20's ATA33 interface.

Have you tried a 7200 RPM HDD in a a T20 or are you just guessing?

I ran a Hitachi 7K60 60G 7200 RPM HDD in my T20 for over a year. I experienced no heat increase over the original 6G 4200 RPM HDD. I now have it in my X31 and the 7K60 runs very cool and quiet.

The performance difference between the Hitachi 7K60 and the original HDD was like a 200MHz boost in CPU speed. Boot time was cut in half.

I'm now running a Toshiba 5400 40G HDD with 16MB of cache in my T20. It's a little hotter than the 7K60 and it's not as quiet but the performance is about the same. HDD cache makes a big difference plus the high disk density on the newer HDDs makes seek time a lot faster. The battery life decreased about 15-20% with the faster HDDs.

I put a Hitachi 5K80 20G HDD with 8MB of cache in my 240X. It made a big improvement. As I mentioned in another message in this thread, I've installed 7200 RPM HDDs with 8MB of cache in older PCs, some without Ultra DMA and they worked fine with a major boost in performance.

[l3stat]

I recommend for Hitachi 5K100 series.The speed is good enough for ATA33 HDD data transfers interface.It is also not so hot as 7200RPM HDD.
Depending on T20 cooling system is not good.7200RPM HDD is too hot too T20.Performace of 7200rpm HDD is limited in T20's ATA33 interface.

That's quite true. Getting the 7,200rpm would be overpaying for speed if the transfer is capped at the interface. But at the same time, the 7,200rpm would last better, should I decide to put it into a PC in future.

Have you tried the 7K60 in a T20 before? Some blokes from Singapore actually put it in a plastic casing with no active cooling, to get some temperature readings vs other slower drives. While the outcome was that it was only slightly hotter (~1degree), how they tested it for that 15 minutes wasn't documented. That story's in this link below:

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/pr ... =10&id=693

Thanks to both of you for your valuable comments. I'm more or less settled on a Hitachi, just not too sure if I should get a 7K100 or 5K100.

[monkey243]

Have you tried a 7200 RPM HDD in a a T20 or are you just guessing?

I ran a Hitachi 7K60 60G 7200 RPM HDD in my T20 for over a year. I experienced no heat increase over the original 6G 4200 RPM HDD. I now have it in my X31 and the 7K60 runs very cool and quiet.

The performance difference between the Hitachi 7K60 and the original HDD was like a 200MHz boost in CPU speed. Boot time was cut in half.

I'm now running a Toshiba 5400 40G HDD with 16MB of cache in my T20. It's a little hotter than the 7K60 and it's not as quiet but the performance is about the same. HDD cache makes a big difference plus the high disk density on the newer HDDs makes seek time a lot faster. The battery life decreased about 15-20% with the faster HDDs.

I put a Hitachi 5K80 20G HDD with 8MB of cache in my 240X. It made a big improvement. As I mentioned in another message in this thread, I've installed 7200 RPM HDDs with 8MB of cache in older PCs, some without Ultra DMA and they worked fine with a major boost in performance.

I am afraid I have never tried 7K60 HDD.
If 7K60 is just as verktyg said,consume not much power and not so hot as I think.The 7K60 is better.But you never think about to exert all the performance of 7K60 HDD in T20.

[l3stat]

Have you tried a 7200 RPM HDD in a a T20 or are you just guessing?

I ran a Hitachi 7K60 60G 7200 RPM HDD in my T20 for over a year. I experienced no heat increase over the original 6G 4200 RPM HDD. I now have it in my X31 and the 7K60 runs very cool and quiet.

The performance difference between the Hitachi 7K60 and the original HDD was like a 200MHz boost in CPU speed. Boot time was cut in half.

I'm now running a Toshiba 5400 40G HDD with 16MB of cache in my T20. It's a little hotter than the 7K60 and it's not as quiet but the performance is about the same. HDD cache makes a big difference plus the high disk density on the newer HDDs makes seek time a lot faster. The battery life decreased about 15-20% with the faster HDDs.

I put a Hitachi 5K80 20G HDD with 8MB of cache in my 240X. It made a big improvement. As I mentioned in another message in this thread, I've installed 7200 RPM HDDs with 8MB of cache in older PCs, some without Ultra DMA and they worked fine with a major boost in performance.

We must have posted at about the same time! Didn't see your post! Thanks for sharing your hands-on experience with the various HDDs. Monkey does have a point on the interface, I probably won't feel the incremental benefit a 7,200 has over a 5,400, with the UDMA/ATA33 interface the T20 has. But it's very tempting getting a 7,200 just for the low running temperature!

I think I'll probably settle for the 5,400rpm, unless the incremental price is really small. One thing: since I'll probably be going for a 100GB, any idea if the bios will support something of that size? I'll be running Win XP SP2 on this machine. I think my bios is currently the newest as on the IBM/Lenovo sitem but I haven't checked for a while.

[verktyg]

The BIOS should support up to 137G HDDs.

The larger cache (RAM memory built into the HDD) and faster disk access because of higher density of storage is what gives these newer HDDs their boost in performance regardless of the IDE controller.

My X31 came with a Hitachi 40G 5400 RPM HDD with 2MB of cache. I replaced it with the Hitachi 7K60 60G 7200 RPM HDD from my T20. I formatted the 7K60 and installed a Ghost image of the 5400 HDD. My boot time on the X31 was cut in half and programs loaded in half the time.

I bought my 7K60 HDD when they first came out. There weren't many other high performance drives available. The performance increase over the original 4200 RPM HDD was amazing. I was going to buy a new TP because my T20 was always sluggish. The performance difference allowed me to put off buying a new PC to replace the T20 for over a year. For me it was worth the money but I think that the Hitachi 7200 RPM drives are over priced. They've been on the market long enough that there should be a price drop.

BTW, I only bought my X31 after the mainboard on my T20 failed last Fall. I've since replaced the mainboard, upgraded the the PIII M 650 CPU to a PIII M 850, installed a T22 fan and increased the memory to 512MB.

I'm very pleased with my T20 now. I'm think of selling the X31 as I'm not using it.

[l3stat]

Okay! Thanks again, I think I'll go for a 5,400 100GB drive. According to literature I read from storagereview.com, that should provide enough improvement I can feel! Thanks again man!