Convince me to get the T43...please!

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snabjab · #1 Post by **snabjab** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:53 pm

I hope you thinkpad devotees can help me with the question I'm struggling with. I'm a student who is looking for a laptop with the following basic specs:

14" screen @ 1400x1050
80gb HD
1.86 ghz

<< guts removed to satisfy ridiculous forum requirements >>

Now I still really want a thinkpad, but I'm having a hard time figuring out why I would want to spend $250 more for something with lesser specs: 512 ram instead of 1GB, 2x DVD burner instead of 8x. I could save some money on the thinkpad by going down to a 60GB HD, but I want 80GB.

BTW I use my laptop mostly for taking notes, since I'm a grad student. Portability is a priority, hence the 14" screen.

My question is- do I really want the thinkpad or should I be happy spending less on the Dell? I haven't seen a thinkpad up close so I'm really not sure what I'm missing. I know many of you dislike Dell, but I have to say that I'm satisfied with the D610 keyboard, even if the touchpad and pointer leave quite a bit to be desired. What say you?

Also, the 2686M5U would be perfect, if not for the 60GB hard drive. I'm guessing there's no way to upgrade this, just as there's no way to downgrade the OS (I get a free copy of XP pro from my school).

many thanks inadvance for your help!

stalin · #2 Post by **stalin** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:26 pm

There is nothing to convience you of.
Just a personal tip - do NOT buy T43 (even in case the price were the same).
I think T43's is the worst T model ever... If you are so desperate, go for T42.

PS: I received my T43p in the end of May, so after using it for more than 3 months, I do regret the purchase though

#3 Post by **RonS** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:51 pm

Most people who own T42's LOVE them. I've used other brands, but once you own a T42 you'll never want anything else. If the house was burning down, I would get the family to safety and then go in for my Thinkpad.

On the other hand, you may be hard pressed to find anyone gush over their T43. They're based on the Sonama chipset (a dud, imo) and have fan/heat/noise problems.

Read these forums and you'll see what I mean. Go with a T42 and you'll be happy for years.

snabjab · #4 Post by **snabjab** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:03 pm

i hear what you're saying about the T42, that definitely seems to be the consensus. Fact is though that I'd be getting considerably less performance for my money (vs the Dell, that is) and getting and older, slower platform to boot. It seems like I missed the best chance with the specials they had which ended a week ago, even though the ones they're running now look decent. The problem is that they aren't offering any high performance T42 models for sale with EPP. If that were the case I think I'd definitely get one. Is the experience of using a thinkpad really so fantastic that I'd be happy I gave up a DVD burner that's 4 times faster, 512MB of ram, processor/FSB/RAM speed, and spent probably $250 more on top of that? Could it be that good? I would never contest that a Latitude D610 is basically as nice of a laptop as a thinkpad - I'm not crazy. But it is a pretty solid machine and will likely be a reliable, solid laptop for years to come.

But honestly I'm still waiting to be convinced. I would love to have a thinkpad. I'm just disappointed that the EPP prices aren't better than what I expected they would be. Who in their right mind would pay "normal" price for a thinkpad?

HorizontalDropout · #5 Post by **HorizontalDropout** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:54 pm

I actually had to make the exact same decision recently - the D610 sup'd up + $1699-$500 deal, or a T4x via EPP.

I ended up getting a T42 (the 2373M3U, for around $1500) - which you can also get if you just call the EPP line instead of browsing the web site. Download the tabook: ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitute/psref/, spend a little time looking through IBM's ridiculous list of configurations, and then ask an EPP operator about one or two. Also FYI, the 1.8ghz/14"SXGA/9600 CTO T42 is the 2373H5U, IIRC.

It's incredibly hard to spend so much on year-old tech, but Sonoma doesn't seem to offer much beyond: faster RAM (generally considered of minimal benefit), the ExpressCard interface (which Dell doesn't offer anyway), a bit more heat, and a bit less battery. IMO, there are some very good reasons to get a T43 for the ExpressCard, but I ended up deciding that Sonoma wasn't all that much of a plus for the D610. And the ATI x300 is (so I've read) basically just the 9600 for PCI-X.

There was also the widely-reported "noisy headphone jack" issue with the D610, which definitely would have annoyed me. And the smaller profile of the T42 is worth something to me. Honestly, beyond that I get into the same cliched IBM traits that you hear all the time here - the better keyboard, the relatively nice software bundle, the better build quality... Personally, I'm not enough of a gamer, compiler, videographer, or anything else processor-ish to need bleeding-edge tech. The problem is deciding whether that means I should buy the best spec'd laptop (so I can stick with it as long as possible), or a less tricked-out laptop that might end up giving me "more" use - both quality and quantity.

Two final notes:
My T42 is due to ship 9/21, so you don't have to consider my opinion worth anything

I'm historically an Apple guy, which - depending on who you ask - either means I insist on high-quality hardware with good software integration, or I am simply addicted to spending too much on computers

hoya · #6 Post by **hoya** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:07 pm

I owned a Dell D610 with an SXGA+ display and absolutely hated it. the keyboard was way too stiff, the mouse buttons were loud and uncomfortable, the machine was thick and heavy, and the biggest drawback was a terrible display.

I would suggest the 2686DGU, which is only $1329 on EPP. the 2686M5U is also a very nice machine (faster processor, slower hdd) for $1370.

since Dell and Lenovo offer a 30-day MBG, just buy both and I guarantee you'll keep the T43 (T42 is also fine, though some of the SXGA+ T43's ship with a Hydis LCD panel, which is slightly brighter and sharper than the Samsung, though either panel is far superior to the panels on Dell's D610).

krymson · #7 Post by **krymson** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:07 pm

Hey there,

I dunno if you've used laptops before but you said you portability was important. In my experience, what you want from a laptop if you move around a lot, is different from a desktop, in that system specs are less important than build quality, battery life, and portability, as well as reliability/warranties.

Basically I feel that if you spend more time at a desk, the Dell's specs may make up for it's weaknesses, but if you spend more time moving around, you would rather have a thinkpad. Specs usually do not make much of a difference on the road because you're not gonna be using as many programs at once as you would on a desktop and they're probably not gonna be as processor intensive.

You know yourself best, figure out what you're gona use the laptop for, if you're really just gonna use it for notes and reports or if you're gonna be gaming and such. Power or portability/build quality/nicer keyboard.

ddutta · #8 Post by **ddutta** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:19 pm

We have a T42 at home and I am 100% satisfied. I needed another one for something and I just ordered a T43 CTO after spending some time on the forum. Here are my $0.02

* Dell 610 is not a bad laptop but it looks thicker and I dont like the slippery feel of the Dells.
* Unless you get onsite support with Dell, IBM support is hard to beat.
* A T42 is probably much better than a T43 in terms of noise, heat etc but the T42 are more expensive for the same specs and DDR2700 RAM is more expensive too.
* Your best bet is to get a CTO model (thats what I ordered). Add HDD, optical drive, memory and OS. Get a base system with 3yrs warranty and SXGA+

Decent Base models:
* 2668AJU: 2Ghz SXGA+ 3ys FPR (BJU is 15") **I ordered this new model**
* 2687E8U: 1.86Ghz SXGA+ 3yrs (>4 months old)
* 2687NEU: 2Ghz SXGA+ 3yrs (new model)

There are T42 CTO models too but they cost more and I dont want to spend $200 more when I can get 2GB RAM. Also there are some T42p and T43p models but they are $300-500 more expensive. I am sure they are better.

Here is what I chose in addition to the base model:
* 256MB memory as I want to get 2GB from newegg.
* 60GB 7200rpm after reading a couple of threads.
* 9cell (if you need a 6cell buy it from ebay later)
* CDRW/DVD (I am on a budget and I backup using USB HDDs)
* WinXP home (will use Linux 90% time)

CTO models can found at:
https://www-03.ibm.com/lenovo/shop/pers ... t_list.cfm

Good luck with your purchase. With a EPP, you should be able to get a good T42/T43. My friend has a latitude and a T42 and he likes the T42.

Re Dell: I have a Dell precision and its a good machine and runs 24/7. But a few months back, when it malfunctioned, they had to upgrade my machine for free after 2-3 weeks because they couldnt find spare parts that worked

Though I got a faster workstation after 1 month, transferring data was a pain and I wasted a lot of time waiting for the tech service guy etc. My T42 was the only window to the world of computing for that 1 month!

Another personal experience: we were in India when there was a small problem with the T42. Something had become loose due to the vibrations in the overhead compartment. We took it to a local thinkcenter shop and got the laptop back in 2 hrs!!! So the worldwide warranty really works.

To add:
* Dont worry too much about 1.86 vs 2.0 as you will run the processor at 600Mhz most of the time if you do normal stuff like browsing etc.
* Use the extra money to buy more RAM (from wherever) and a faster HDD (from wherever). When the CPU cant find things in the cache, it does a memory lookup. When the OS cant find things in memory, it does a disk lookup. CPU/Cache->Mem->Disk. Each is a few orders of magnitude faster than their right hand neighbor. That should explain many things!!!

newt43 · #9 Post by **newt43** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:33 am

Let me offer my two cents as a fellow grad student, and as somebody who has the two machines you're considering under the same roof. My wife has the Dell Latitude 610, and I just got my T43. I love my computer, but I'm not sure the build quality is as great as everyone says it is. I have a lot of screen flex on mine, and there are generally odd gaps and misalignments everywhere on the case. My friend's T42 has exactly the same issues. (The T42's superiority comes in performance, heat, and battery life. But it uses the same case as the T43.) In contrast, the Dell is *solid*. Absolutely no screen flex, and the case seems to be hermetically sealed. Still, I think the T series is better. It's *much* lighter, the screen is great (if you don't try to twist it!), and the keyboard is lovely. If you're in the dissertation phase of your degree (as I am), you definitely want a keyboard that's pleasant to type on.

But more important than all of this is IBM/Lenovo's solid warranty support. I have the three year depot warranty plus the thinkpad protection program, which covers accidental damage. This gives me a lot of peace of mind and frees me to enjoy the computer instead of worrying about the fact that there's a 2 millimeter gap in the ultrabay. In fact, I've begun to think that these "imperfections" might be a conscious design choice-- giving the case flexibility and "give" so that it can withstand shocks. I've read a lot on this board about how IBM sales demonstrations involve dropping thinkpads and jumping on them. I doubt the computers would survive if every case were tightly screwed together. But I'm not an expert. My advice: get the Thinkpad protection. Then you don't have to worry about any of this.

Since you're a student, you can pick up a nicely equipped 2668-c2u for around 1600. Your university will have a buyer's program-- check it out. Good luck!

rocketman · #10 Post by **rocketman** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:10 am

Personally I'm definitely in the "T42 is better than the T43 camp". My T42 2379R9U is a joy. The T43p I had 2668G2U sucked, loud as hell, both the fan noise and hard drive noise.
Having had both at the same time really showed the difference, where the T42 is barely audible the T43p's racket was very distracting.

keku · #11 Post by **keku** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:28 am

Well I had dell 600m Laptop, unfortunately it was stolen and I was in market for new laptop, so I bought ThinkPad T43p.

I kinda liked 600m it solved my purpose and wasn't that bad for 800 bucks. (1.6 Ghz with 64 MB VRAM, SXGA+ 512) added another 512 and it was fine.

When I bought T43p I really loved it, but I accept ThinkPad are expensive, and in some cases those are not worth it.

T43 Pros :
1. Nice Design, Slim with sturdy shell, may handle few minor falls.
2. Looks professional
4. Faster with new PCI express chipset (runs 533 Mhz)
5. Option to get a faster HDD at 7200 RPM

Cons :
1. Expensive.
2. Because of black color you will see hand marks and even little bit dust will be noticed. So you have to keep it clean.

Note : Heating issue for T43 is not a cons factor while comparing it to Dell, Because Dell gets even more hot with slower chipset which runs at 333 Mhz. and a slower HDD usually 4200 or sometimes max 5400.

With Dell you will have your palms burning when you do some HDD intensive works, while with T4x you will feel a little not much. LCD on Thinkpads are better than Dell. you can tell difference by just touching LCD.

IBM Spoiled ThinkPad owners with a very nice laptop till T42 models, then they designed T43 with faster chipset and gave half complete design to Lenovo. Poor lenovo guys didn't have skills to complete design and put new faster chipset into older shell and used same cooling mechanism. Result: it became big issue for all ThinkPad owners.
No doubt T43 gets hot fan can be loud but that's in compare to T42, NOT dell or HP it's still better then those.

Now the point is ... do you want to spend 250 bucks on ThinkPad .. if it's just 250 I would say "hell Yes T43 is much faster then any other laptop and it's worth it" ..
But if difference is 1 ThinkPad = 2 dell or sometime 3 dells (yes that's also a case) then you have to decide how long you going to keep it and what you are going to do with your laptop in future ..

If you plan to do just word processing and internet/lightweight stuff, better go for Dell
If going to run heavyweight applications and do some software development/ CAD/CAM etc etc. go for ThinkPad if you can afford it without burdening your financial situation.

snabjab · #12 Post by **snabjab** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:45 am

Thanks very much for all of your comments - they're quite helpful.

At this point I'm pretty certain that if I get a Thinkpad it'll be a T42. It has to be 14", and 80GB, and the Radeon 9600 would be nice to have as well. A DVD burner isn't a priority, I suppose. As was mentioned earlier there is no such T42 listed on the EPP page. How do I access the tabook so that I can give them a call and get a price on the model I want? The link above didn't work.

I'm becoming more and more dissatisfied with the Dell. I think the keyboard is fine - and I do a lot of typing - but touchpad buttons really are loud and hard to press. All in all much less comfortable to use than the 6 year old latitude I'm currently using.

ddutta · #13 Post by **ddutta** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:48 am

I would suggest that you go with a CTO T42 or T42p model and add the goodies you want. Call up EPP and ask them for the CTO T42. They are more eager to sell you the non CTO but will config if you insist. The 9 cell on a T42 gives you 6-7 hrs

Enough juice to spend the day at the local Espresso place!

mysbca · #14 Post by **mysbca** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:23 pm

snabjab wrote:At this point I'm pretty certain that if I get a Thinkpad it'll be a T42. It has to be 14", and 80GB, and the Radeon 9600 would be nice to have as well. A DVD burner isn't a priority, I suppose.

Take a look at the 2373M1U (1.8GHz P-M, 512MB RAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, 14" SXGA+, Radeon 9600, IBM a/b/g wi-fi, bluetooth, fingerprint reader, 3 yr warranty).

You can get the link to the tabook in item 1 in the FAQ:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=1689
It's the same link as in the earlier post without the parenthesis.

snabjab · #15 Post by **snabjab** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:42 pm

Fantastic, thanks for the suggestions. Thanks very much for giving me abuse for not clicking around enough on this site on my own before posting. But you've all helped me answer the relevant questions...so far. I'll let you know how things turn out, unless I end up keeping the Dell.

The only problem I have now is that if I do order a thinkpad I'm sure it'll come after my Dell 21 day return period is expired. Oh well. It sounds like the T42 would be a definite winner.

Thinkpaddict · #16 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:52 pm

snabjab wrote:I'll let you know how things turn out, unless I end up keeping the Dell.

The Dell might seem to compare well with the T42 at first glance. However, consider the hidden cost of ownership for a Dell vs a Thinkpad. My cousin has a 600m (I think that's the model), and while it is relatively solid, I would never trade it for my new T41p. Thinkpads are just on a class of their own, and unless the T42 is screwed up compared to the T41p (I don't think so, since it just seems to be a T41 with a Dothan), I would seriously recommend getting the T42.

I could never get over the cheap look of the Dells either (shinny plastic). The T42 is more like an Aston Martin, whereas the Dell is more like a spiffed up Volkswagen Beetle. It's like comparing George W. Bush with George Washington (hope I didn't get anyone [censored] off).

fefland · #17 Post by **fefland** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:48 pm

All I can say is I have dealt with Dell Tech support and IBM/Lenovo Tech Support, IBM is far superior. In addition, I was't completely satisfied with my T43 and contacted the Customer Satisfaction Management team. They are going that extra mile so far to help me get what I want and ensure that I am happy. No company is perfect, but IBM/Lenovo try to resolve when things are not right. I am very happy I have hung in there with my T43.

darrenf · #18 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:48 pm

Watch that Dell return period. When I bough a Dell way back in the day (the experience convinced me never to go Dell again) the return period started on the date of the order which was 2 weeks before the [censored] thing shipped!

FWIW, I have two 2378-FVUs that I increased to 3-yr next-day service, 80GB/5400RPM (never could get a 7200 without vibration), 2G RAM, DVD+RW, 9-cell battery, NMB keyboard and bluetooth. I consider it the perfect laptop. The only possible failing is the 64M vidram -- those games are sure demanding.

I sell a fair number of ThinkPads and have played with the 75U among others. The EPP deal on the 75U is incredible, especially when compared to IBM's crazy retail price on that one. It has everything I want in a laptop but I don't think I could stand the fan noise. They really screwed the pooch on that one.

Not that you asked, but since you haven't seen them in person... stay with the 14" -- the 15" is almost a different laptop. It has most of the positives of a 14" and is even more solid but the thing is so honkin huge that it deserves a different series identifier. It also eats battery at a good click and screen ghosting makes gaming unpleasant.

Krmson is right -- the features to consider in a mobile laptop are very different than in a desktop. That's why ThinkPads command a higher price for similar specs. They are not a commodity purchase. Ergomnics, battery life, size, weight, keyboard/trackpoint feel, LCD appearance, hinges, reliability and ease of service are all higher on my list than CPU speed. Establish a baseline for CPU speed, RAM, etc and then shop on the truly important characteristics. It sounds like you are doing exactly that or you wouldn't be considering the ThinkPad!

You should be able to try out a T-series at your campus bookstore. Most have deals with IBM and Apple. Be warned, though - if you're leaning towards the Dell, don't lay hands on the ThinkPad or you won't get it out of your head!

Good luck in your pursuit.

-darren

snabjab · #19 Post by **snabjab** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:54 pm

Sadly my campus bookstore deals only in Dells and Apples. A thinkpad really woudl be nice.

I'm using this Dell and getting more and more used to it though, which is maybe not the best thing. I'm absoultely sure that you guys are right about the comfort factor with the thinkpads and I really would like to get my hands on one. If only I'd gotten EPP access before I ordered this Dell....

Question - what's the weight difference between 9cell and 6cell? Most of the time I'll be using my machine where there is a wall plug available, though if I had 7 hours of battery life I might just be able to leave the AC adapter at home, which would be handy. But then of course having a more compact and lightweight machine with the 6cell sounds appealing.

darrenf · #20 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:13 pm

IBM's website says 1/3lb. IMHO, that's less than the weight difference between the 14" SVGA and SXGA screens. Of course, the battery sticks out and that hurts the ergonomics somwhat. The laptop looses some of that "2001 perfectly rectangular black obelisk" look that it has with the 6-cell.

That said, I use my laptop ALLL day and really appreciate the 6-8 hours battery life.

-darren

#21 Post by **aamsel** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:13 am

Sorry to welcome you to the forums with a "don't do this" comment, but...

Read "Rules of the Road" at the top of this forum.

" 2. Do not post links, model availability, or pricing information from sites that restrict their purchasing to specific narrow groups (e.g. EPP [employee purchase] or specific Education sites). The members of these institutions can find their information through their employer or organization. Posting the links or information without prior permission from Lenovo/IBM is of questionable legality. Those that are entitled to these discounts have no problem finding the site directly from Lenovo/IBM, their employee friend, or their school bookstore."

Perhaps if you edit the price out of your initial post???

Andrew
Austin, TX

#22 Post by **aamsel** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:26 am

I work for an organization that buys NOTHING but Dell desktops, laptops, and servers. 100 percent Dell.
About 3-4 years ago, the Latitude line was a quality laptop, almost on a par with the Thinkpad, and with good support from Dell.
IMHO, Dell has simply gone for the huge profits, and their quality has dropped significantly. They have done this to be competitive with HP, and, to that end have been very sucessful. I find the Dell notebooks to be currently very poorly constructed.

Dell is a highly successful company, and my guess is that they will at some point realize that quality is important, and turn things around again.

There is a reason why Dells are less money than IBM/Lenovo notebooks, and why you can go EVERY NIGHT to www.gotapex.com and other sites and find the "Dell deal of the day".

They are less money because they are a step down (big step IMHO) from an IBM/Lenovo notebook.

I am not saying that they are "cheap" or "garbage" and I am not a Dell basher. They are a company to be respected, but their products are currently not on a par with IBM/Lenovo.

In this case, you do get what you pay for. If you want to save money, get a "deal" on a Dell.

Again, I work with Dells and see them every day, but I won't buy one at this time.

Andrew
Austin, TX

snabjab wrote:i hear what you're saying about the T42, that definitely seems to be the consensus. Fact is though that I'd be getting considerably less performance for my money (vs the Dell, that is) and getting and older, slower platform to boot. It seems like I missed the best chance with the specials they had which ended a week ago, even though the ones they're running now look decent. The problem is that they aren't offering any high performance T42 models for sale with EPP. If that were the case I think I'd definitely get one. Is the experience of using a thinkpad really so fantastic that I'd be happy I gave up a DVD burner that's 4 times faster, 512MB of ram, processor/FSB/RAM speed, and spent probably $250 more on top of that? Could it be that good? I would never contest that a Latitude D610 is basically as nice of a laptop as a thinkpad - I'm not crazy. But it is a pretty solid machine and will likely be a reliable, solid laptop for years to come.

But honestly I'm still waiting to be convinced. I would love to have a thinkpad. I'm just disappointed that the EPP prices aren't better than what I expected they would be. Who in their right mind would pay "normal" price for a thinkpad?

snabjab · #23 Post by **snabjab** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:55 am

Thanks for your comments Andrew. One thing that strikes me, though, is that for every Dell naysayer there is at least one person insisting that they are quality machines. Sure it's a crapshoot and the odds of getting a Dell with problems might be higher than IBM, but I'm still not convinced that it's that big of a difference. I know someone in the business world who has been lugging his D600 around the country for a good while now and I know [censored] well that he doesn't handle it with any special care and actually is very rough on it, and that thing is still going. Several IT guys I know whom I consider very knowledgeable swear by Dell. As I've said before, I am CONVINCED that thinkpads are better notebooks than Dells in that they are simply much more comfortable to use. I do think that perhaps the reputation colors people's perception of them. Thinkpads attract a certain customer, the sort who seemingly doesn't mind putting up with problems (sometimes big, sometimes small) in order to have the experience of using a thinkpad. I suppose it's very similar to Mac fanatics, OS/CPU differences notwithstanding.

In any case, my next step is to call IBM about a 14" T42 with the specs I want and we'll see what happens next.

rocketman · #24 Post by **rocketman** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:06 am

The thing I do like about Dell is that their notebooks are highly configurable and they have the latest hardware the earliest. For instance the high end T43p uses the 128mb ATI FireGL V3200 video card, where the Dell Precission M70 uses the Quadro® FX Go1400 256MB video card. Also look at the Dell M70 page, there are no less than 15 choices of processor / display resolutions available.

snabjab · #25 Post by **snabjab** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:13 am

Couple of follow-up questions:

I've heard complaints about some of the keyboards going out with the T43s. Are all the keyboards on the T42s the better kind?

I like the windows key (if just for D/E/F/R). I understand I can program a different key to do the same function?

Well in the middle of writing this I called Lenovo. Since I'm apparently not allowed to post prices I'll just say that anyone looking for a nice T42 should inquire about the 23737XU. If I wanted a 15" screen I would have taken it, no doubt. The sales guy asked me why I didn't want a T43 and I mentioned the common reasons why, and he said that those were only isolated problems. I tend to trust your collective experience over the "opinion" of a Lenovo sales guy, but should I be looking at T43s?? Or, a more relevant question - they didn't have the T42 model that I wanted (23739ZU) but they did have the M1U. He suggested I could upgrade to a DVD burner afterwards for cheaper than what IBM is charging. Is it that simple?

#26 Post by **aamsel** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:57 am

There is no reason to get a T series with DVD burner as long as they burn at 2X, which they do. They are referred to as "4X Multiburner" or somesuch, but that means that they burn CD-RW at 4X. They DON'T burn DVD's at 4X.
If you had to have a DVD burner in a notebook, that would be the one reason NOT to get a Thinkpad. Most other companies have 8X burners.
The reason is that IBM/Lenovo uses a thinner ligher drive only available as a 2X burner, which is too slow for any decent use, IMHO.

Yes, you can remap the Windows key. Try a search for "remap key" or "Windows key" here.
I think it is also in the FAQ.

As for what the salespeople say about T43 issues being "isolated"...
well...
It COULD be true, but I personally would give no weight to what the sales crew says. They are in Toronto, they have daily, weekly meetings, and they seem to repeat what they are told to say.
I don't think that they have a "finger on the pulse" of tech support.

You could call 800-IBM-SERV, but I don't think tech support would be too helpful on such information either.

I still prefer the T42 to the T43.
The 9600 card is more tried and true than the X300, may be a little faster (won't argue it, though) and the system runs cooler.

Yes, it is slower memory, etc. but think of it this way:
MOST PEOPLE run laptops on battery at 600Mhz to 800Mhz most of the time. Is top performance a really big deal in a notebook? I personally don't think so.

However, I do think that a 7200rpm hard drive helps more than anything else, as long as you have 1GB+ of memory.

Anyhow, that's my take.
Let me know if I can be of any other help.

Andrew
Austin, TX

snabjab wrote:Couple of follow-up questions:

I've heard complaints about some of the keyboards going out with the T43s. Are all the keyboards on the T42s the better kind?

I like the windows key (if just for D/E/F/R). I understand I can program a different key to do the same function?

Well in the middle of writing this I called Lenovo. Since I'm apparently not allowed to post prices I'll just say that anyone looking for a nice T42 should inquire about the 23737XU. If I wanted a 15" screen I would have taken it, no doubt. The sales guy asked me why I didn't want a T43 and I mentioned the common reasons why, and he said that those were only isolated problems. I tend to trust your collective experience over the "opinion" of a Lenovo sales guy, but should I be looking at T43s?? Or, a more relevant question - they didn't have the T42 model that I wanted (23739ZU) but they did have the M1U. He suggested I could upgrade to a DVD burner afterwards for cheaper than what IBM is charging. Is it that simple?

keku · #27 Post by **keku** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:07 am

Well I would say T43 are much faster than T42. Obviously fast speed comes on the cost of Heat. even with exact same configuration. difference 533 Mhz Vs 333MHz.

But please note the heat T43 Produce is less than dell laptop 600m I can't say about other models but 600m because I used it.

ddutta · #28 Post by **ddutta** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:26 am

This forum has members who are used to T41 and T42 so they are more sensitive. Of course a P4 2.8Ghz desktop will make less noise than a screaming P4 3.6. You cant have a power packed machine and still have less noise/heat. It seems (from other forums) that the heat etc may also be due to the GPU/533 bus.

I just check out a T43 with 1.86G proc. It seemed almost like a T42. I ran some math code and the fan didnt rev up. But my friend said that it really revs up when playing War of Warcraft!

Maybe if you use the laptop for normal stuff, it shouldnt be much more noisy than the T42s. I also checked out a 1.8G Dothan X32 and the fan makes a soft whizzzzzz noise. Either I havea ear problem or all these models have similar amounts of noise.

#29 Post by **RonS** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:17 am

keku wrote:Well I would say T43 are much faster than T42.

I'm sorry keku, but this just isn't true. The very fastest T43p is only marginally faster than the fastest T42p. In real-world tests, the Sonoma on par with the the Dothan and the Sonoma requires considerably more cooling, partly because the Sonoma draws more power, and because it has only one fan for the CPU, graphics, memory, and other peripherals that require the fan to be running continuously. And if you happen to get a T43 with integrated graphics, you can forget about performance.

But here I am ranting about something that doesn't really matter. Thinkpads aren't intended to be the fastest machine out there. They're built for the business community, where quality construction and support make all the difference. Many people who own Thinkpads use them all day long, so a great keyboard is crucial. But if there's a fan endlessly screaming at you, that would be a problem. That's why there are so many people complaining about T43 fan problems on this forum.

Just because a model gets a one-up number change and fresh parts (t42 to t43) doesn't mean that it's a better machine. When T43's first came out, I was anxious to buy one because I thought they would be superior to my T42, but since then I've bought three more T42's.

Here are some links for reference:
http://www20.tomshardware.com/mobile/20 ... so-23.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/mobile/20050119/index.html

#30 Post by **aamsel** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:39 am

Well, not today anyhow.
The heat issue is one that Intel and AMD fight as they increase processor speed. Smaller die sizes, etc. Noise is something that takes more creativity on the part of the manufacturers, and most of them are not creative. Finding the quietest, most efficient fan does not mean finding the cheapest fan, and fanless just isn't going to work, other than current ULV processors.

Are we off-topic yet?
I thought so!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

ddutta wrote:...You cant have a power packed machine and still have less noise/heat..

Convince me to get the T43...please!

Convince me to get the T43...please!

t43 verdict

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