Convince me to get the T43...please!

[aamsel]

I agree. I have an T42 on order right now.
Same thing as a 2005 vs 2004 car of any make/model. Not necessarily better. Often made cheaper.

I used to work in a computer engineering environment.
When a successful motherboard had been shipping for several months, the engineers were tasked with "cost reducing" that motherboard.
They would find capacitors that were not needed, etc. to try to save a few cents. Not a few dollars...a few cents. Yes, a computer company will cheapen a successful model to save tiny amounts of money per unit.

Back on topic...I LOVE THE T SERIES!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

...Just because a model gets a one-up number change and fresh parts (t42 to t43) doesn't mean that it's a better machine...

[ddutta]

Dudes, compare the prices of a 2G T43 with a SXGA+, 7200rpm, 9cell and a similar T42. The T43 is cheaper by at l;east 300 bucks. If budget is a concern, T43 wins because Lenovo is bringing out faster T43s at lower prices. If not, I would get a T42p with the fireGL graphics and feel happy about marginally less noise/heat, better battery life etc. Its a personal choice. Some people just dont want to (or cant ) shell out $300-$500 (for T42p) and would rather use it to buy more RAM, get better a extra battery etc.

Even with the slightly increased noise, the T43 should be OK. I should get my T43 in 2 weeks and will do a detail comparison with my dear old T42

Disclaimer: I dont belong to either camps and I try to buy stuff that I need at reasonable prices that will get me the max bang 4 the buck

[denthorq]

Just got my T43 and I agree that it is NOISY !!!

We have five (5) T42s and they are very quite... I might return mine... I still have to investigate more...

[simscitizen]

It's better than a Dell but the battery life and noise are worse than the older Ts--that's coming from someone with a 1.86/sxga+ config as well...

[hoya]

I have an T42 on order right now.

Andrew - which model did you order?

I just placed an order for the 2373H6U - since that model is on special the thinkpad.com price was cheaper than EPP! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Hydis panel.

[keku]

I'm sorry keku, but this just isn't true. The very fastest T43p is only marginally faster than the fastest T42p. In real-world tests, the Sonoma on par with the the Dothan and the Sonoma requires considerably more cooling, partly because the Sonoma draws more power, and because it has only one fan for the CPU, graphics, memory, and other peripherals that require the fan to be running continuously.

And if you happen to get a T43 with integrated graphics, you can forget about performance.
Just because a model gets a one-up number change and fresh parts (t42 to t43) doesn't mean that it's a better machine. When T43's first came out, I was anxious to buy one because I thought they would be superior to my T42, but since then I've bought three more T42's.

Well apart from heating issues I've found T43p perform faster then T42p, but I agree if you have integrated graphics then performance it will be poor than dedicated one.
I've run benchmarks on T42p and T43p (CTO) to benchmark both machines before buying 48 T43p thinkpads. and found smililar configuration 1.8 GHz processor, 1GB RAM, 128 MB VRAM, 60 GB 72K HDD T43 was faster than T42, you can call it "marginal" but it was and for sure this difference was not because of CPU.

Also Heating problem in T43 is not because of just CPU GPU .. it's chipset that produces the heat, and IBM/lenovo accepted it.

[aamsel]

Sent you a PM.
Andrew

I have an T42 on order right now.

Andrew - which model did you order?

I just placed an order for the 2373H6U - since that model is on special the thinkpad.com price was cheaper than EPP! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a Hydis panel.

[BillMorrow]

IBM Spoiled ThinkPad owners with a very nice laptop till T42 models, then they designed T43 with faster chipset and gave half complete design to Lenovo. Poor lenovo guys didn't have skills to complete design and put new faster chipset into older shell and used same cooling mechanism. Result: it became big issue for all ThinkPad owners.
No doubt T43 gets hot fan can be loud but that's in compare to T42, NOT dell or HP it's still better then those.

i must disagree with this comment..
ibm design team now is lenovo design team..
what has changed is WHAT they will produce in the future..
future in this case is a year out or more..

who really knows who is doing what but i think these designs were done before the lenovo takeover and will be thus for some months..

the T43 is an ibm design..
IMO the heat issue is not an issue..
same for the noise..

[dssjon]

my T43 isnt noisy at all.. maybe becauses its not a T43p. I love it still after having it the whole summer. Its not hot either. The only thing that is wrong is a little bit of flex at the left palm rest above the pcmia slot. other than that, i would recommend it, although if your into widescreen wait for the new z series.

[snabjab]

well well. i called today and got the price on the 2373-M1U. As long as Lenovo doesn't need a month to get it to me, and as long as Dell doesn't give me a hard time about returning the D610...I'll be placing an order tomorrow.

Anyone have suggestions for where I should buy my extra 512? I've had only good experiences with Crucial so far.

[ddutta]

What is the difference between M1U and M3U?

[RukRem]

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... logId=-840

I dare you to argue...
Please dont think to argue a dell (little case) is comparable...
dell's are for the bourgeoise....

did i mention, thats my model...
it survived a 12 foot drop onto tile floor, not a scratch... try that in DELL

[mysbca]

What is the difference between M1U and M3U?

M1U - 5400rpm 80GB HD, IBM (atheros) abg wi-fi
M3U - 7200rpm 60GB HD, Intel BG wi-fi

[ddutta]

I might have diff priorities but the M3U is a great model. A groupmate has it and it a joy to work on it. The M1U might be similar.

However, for regular use, my 1.6 T42 works as well. So any model would be good

[pae77]

Anyone have suggestions for where I should buy my extra 512? I've had only good experiences with Crucial so far.

Crucial is good but expensive. I find NewEgg to be just as good and less expensive for memory. They have many different brands at various price points.

[ddutta]

True. I bought 1GB for my T42 form the Egg for $100 odd.

[snabjab]

hmm in that case it might make more sense to configure the T42 with the non-EPP pricing sale they've got going on now, getting 256 RAM and just upgrading to 1GB through Newegg. Can someone point me to the right RAM at the egg? Can this thing handle PC3200 or does it have to be 2700?

Is there any real difference between the IBM v Intel wireless? I hate the inevitable wireless problems that come up so I would definitely choose reliability/compatability over performance.

[snabjab]

nuts. dell offered me $200 off when I called to return. Now it just seems silly for me to spend my own money shipping it back when I could just sell it and definitely break even. Wonder how the warranty transfer works...they probably wouldn't be too keen on me transferring the warranty straight off, if it's even possible.

[ddutta]

Warranty tranfer at Dell isnt a big deal. You need to fill up a form .... $200 off is sweet. Though lots of people on this forum are Dell bashers (or TP bashers!), I think its ok to use a Dell as a desktop replacement at home. The problems begin when you start carrying them. I know several people who have Dells bought at cheap prices and they are ok with it for checking email, paying bills, watching DVDs, editing photos, printing maps especially if you have 3 yrs on site warranty:)

For more data reliability you can always have a Seagate 2.5" HDD with a 5yr warranty in a cheap $10 enclosure!

[seguetester]

I think that both serve their purpose. I use a ThinkPad at work and a Dell laptop around the house. Dell seems to put a bit more performance in some components (i.e. - video cards); however, they do not stand the test of time like a ThinkPad. I have been a road warrior for 7 years and have logged about 1 million miles and around 1200 different flights. In this time I have shared travel time about equally between ThinkPads and Dells. I have never had to send a ThinkPad in for repair; however, my Dells have gone out on me 4 times.

If I were not travelling hard and just using the machine at home, I may be tempted to do a Dell again. However, if the machine will be leaving the house much...do yourself a favor...get the ThinkPad. It will pay for itself in the long run. The warranty may cover the cash issues but lost productivity and simple frustration combined with possible data loss make the ThinkPad a no-brainer. Get the ThinkPad if you plan to move about with your machine.

Just my 2 cents.

[Kel Ghu]

Take a T43 if you use memory and bus intensive applications or use your laptop at full performance. A T42 if you care about noise or battery life.

Most people are just too picky on the noise, mostly because they don't use their T4x as they should. Most of them don't use applications that take full advantage of their T4x (not even 1/10). So I think most of them should not own a T42 but a T40...

[ddutta]

Well said, Kel Ghu!!! 90% of the time the [censored] Dothan in my T42 runs at 600Mhz!!! That is why I let my constrained budget decide the T42/T43 choice. A T42 was much more expensive. T43 won. Period.

I spent some time reading the forum and I was confused. Then I listed my needs: SXGA+ 7200rpm 9 cell. I looked around and the cheapest thinkpad with the above must have features was a CTO T43. A CTO T42 was $250 more. So there is no clear answer. You have to ask yourself and decide. As long as its a thinkpad, I am ok. IMHO the main idea of getting a TP is the worry free service. When I buy my next machine from work funds, I shall definitely consider getting a cooool T42p or T43p (or whatever excites people then) with teh best graphics and HDD.

[jdhurst]

90% of the time the [censored] Dothan in my T42 runs at 600Mhz!!!

That is because 90 percent of the time you don't require the additional performance. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with the Dothan.

Mine (in a T41 {yes, I upgraded it}) runs at 600MHz most of the time as well. But whenever it wants more, it shoots up to full 1.8 instantly even if only for a second or two. Works perfectly.
... JD Hurst

[ddutta]

I know that! All I meant is that most of the time I underutilze my CPU because I am reading things in acrobat and firefox and sending emails on thunderbird When I run stuff on octave (matlab clone), my T42 screams aloud in pain

I would say most of my friends severly underutilize the Intel CPUs they have. Apple on the other hand tries to maximize the resources of old chips such as the G4 by using the GPU more .... We wintel/lintel users dont know how to use the CPUs.

[aamsel]

So...
Are you planning on EBAY'ing the Dell???
Let me play Devil's advocate for a second...
You keep the Dell intending to sell it. Your 15 day return runs out.
You have it on EBAY.
THEN, DELL RUNS ONE OF THEIR HUGE SALES.
You KNOW it is going to happen!
Dell has a different sale every single day, just check www.gotapex.com and you will see the current ones. They change at midnite every day.
$200 is NOTHING when it comes to Dell discounts! They could have a sale that blows that away a week from now.

Not that IBM/Lenovo doesn't have sales, but Dell changes pricing constantly! Something with stackable coupons will appear that will save another 15%. Guaranteed.

I used to buy Dell, I don't any more.

My opinion is this...if you want the Dell...keep it. It will be an ok machine for you hopefully. If you have someone who will take the Dell off your hands TODAY, then do it. If you want the Thinkpad, return the Dell for a refund. The $200 is chicken feed.

The "retention" effort that Dell made to offer a $200 discount just saves them money getting a used one back.

It will cost you $15 to send the Dell back FEDEX ground. Just be sure to insure it for full value, not the $100 default! Will cost an extra dollar or two maximum.

Just FYI.
Andrew
Austin, TX

nuts. dell offered me $200 off when I called to return. Now it just seems silly for me to spend my own money shipping it back when I could just sell it and definitely break even. Wonder how the warranty transfer works...they probably wouldn't be too keen on me transferring the warranty straight off, if it's even possible.

[jdhurst]

I know that! All I meant is that most of the time I underutilze my CPU because I am reading things in acrobat and firefox and sending emails on thunderbird When I run stuff on octave (matlab clone), my T42 screams aloud in pain

Ok, I understand. Seems I have the *only* quiet ThinkPad in the entire forum One evening, late, at home (on a quiet dead-end street), and the TV on low (volume setting 3 out of about 25 so as not to disturb anybody), I set Symantec to scan the disk for viruses. With the CPU running at 1.8Ghz most of the time for about 90 minutes and the temperature running in the 60's, the fan was running at max the whole time. It whirred away noticeably, but not irritatingly and not enough to drown out the TV six feet away that no one but me could hear.

Some time, maybe someone will post that they live in a house where their ThinkPad drowns out the furnace, refridgerator, kitchen fan, bathroom fan and normal noises. Mine (and any and all client T40, T41 and T42 machines) just don't scream in pain. Never did.

Cheers, ... JD Hurst

[trikster2]

Just read this thread. Is the OP still around or did snabjab stick with his D610?


Snab is comming off a 6 year old lattitude? SIX? Wow. I thought my wife was bad with her 4 year old compaq.

I have the same situation as snabjab but in reverse, I'm a dell guy too but went with the T43 for the wife, as I wanted a high end 15" laptop for her (dell does not make one anymore).

Got the alps keyboard which she hates, and the T43, 15" and 6 cell battery w. wireless is giving around 2hrs of batterly life (she had 4hrs on her old 15").

Not sure if I am in for a peny in for a pound and going to buy the $200 9 cell battery, and $40 NMB keyboard (if I can find it). (On a laptop that already cost $1800). Or dumping the T43 for either a T42 (the DXU I had my heart set on was not on the EPP site when I ordered) or something else (maybe a lattitude D510, and take the hit on graphics performance)

Can the EPP be used for laptops not on IBMs EPP website? From what I am reading the T42, like a DXU with a NMB keyboard may have been perfect for her....
Moderator's Note: EPP purchase discussions are not allowed in this forum. If you are unclear about this, review the posting guidelines at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14339

[ddutta]

You need to call them and then they will order any model for you at a discount.

[snabjab]

well well. i'm still around!

My provisional plans are to keep the Dell and order a T42. If I like the thinkpad I'll sell the dell. If not, back goes the T42. I've been watching Dell's prices for a long time now and the Latitude prices are much more stable than the Inspiron line. At the pre-200-off price of $1430, this nearly spec-ed out D610 was pretty much at the lowest price I'd ever seen it. Blowouts on Latitudes don't really happen, and if they do they're so rare and brief as to have a negligible effect upon the market. That was a rather lengthy way of saying that I will have no problem recovering $1200 for this thing, and probably no difficulty getting $1400. (it's 1.86/1GB/80GB/SXGA/X300 for crying out loud!) The only thing that would screw me is a update in the Latitude line, but I don't think that's gonna happen in the next few months (hope not).

I've definitely been scared off the T43 but still have a few questions about the T42, namely - do the T42s always ship with NMB keyboards or is it a crapshoot?

In case anyone was wondering (it's not as if anyone here needed to be convinced), the things that make me want to ditch the Dell are the pointer stick, the buttons for the touchpad (very noisy, hard to press), the fan constantly being on (a minor gripe - it's pretty quiet), and a high pitched buzzing noise that sometimes comes up (a guy on the dell forums had a partly successful fix - disabling one of the USB controllers - ridiculous). That's my story.

[GomJabbar]

I've definitely been scared off the T43 but still have a few questions about the T42, namely - do the T42s always ship with NMB keyboards or is it a crapshoot?

I have a T42 with keyboard Manufacturer's #08K4957 and FRU #08K4986 (confusing isn't it). I've gathered after much searching that this must be an Alps keyboard. While I haven't tried any of the others, the Alps seems OK by me.

BTW, I bought my T42 in January 2005. The keyboard you get is probably a crapshoot, but things may have changed since I bought mine.

[So after over 60 posts they haven't convinced you to get the T43 yet?]