Power drain while in Hibernation mode?

Message

kjarrett · #1 Post by **kjarrett** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:32 am

In the years I had my T21, the battery charge NEVER dropped when it was in Hibernation mode and was unplugged from AC power.

My new (to me) T30, however, definitely loses some power ... I think it's due to the PCMCIA wireless "g" card I have (DLink DWL-G650). I had the exact same (physical!) card in my T21 and never noticed this.

Device manager reports that Power Save Mode for this card is set to "off" currently. Other choices are "Maximum" and "Normal." The internal WiFi card is disabled.

Is it normal for battery power to be consumed while the PC is in Hibernation mode?

Thanks, kj

Leon · #2 Post by **Leon** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:37 am

no... do the cards indicator lights stay on???

kjarrett · #3 Post by **kjarrett** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:46 am

No they do not ... totally normal looking hibernation by all accounts.

Greg Gebhardt · #4 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:00 am

kjarrett wrote:In the years I had my T21, the battery charge NEVER dropped when it was in Hibernation mode and was unplugged from AC power.

My new (to me) T30, however, definitely loses some power ... I think it's due to the PCMCIA wireless "g" card I have (DLink DWL-G650). I had the exact same (physical!) card in my T21 and never noticed this.

Device manager reports that Power Save Mode for this card is set to "off" currently. Other choices are "Maximum" and "Normal." The internal WiFi card is disabled.

Is it normal for battery power to be consumed while the PC is in Hibernation mode?

Thanks, kj

Have you tired it again? I don't see how any power could be used. I have left my notebook in hibernation for over two weeks and it woke up with 95% power remaining on the battery.

Does it loose power when just shut completely down?

kjarrett · #5 Post by **kjarrett** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:17 am

It did it just the other day for a second time, that's when I knew I wasn't imagining it. The battery was at 97% when I closed the lid and when I resumed it was at 93% and charging.

Good idea, I will start shutting down instead of hibernating to see if that matters.

-kj-

Greg Gebhardt · #6 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:35 am

Very strange. Hibernation should save everything in RAM to the hard drive and turn off completely. Only thing I can think of would be your PCMCIA card. After being in Hibernation for a while, try ejecting it to see if it is warm. If things work the way they are surposed to, NO power should be supplied to the PCMCIA card. The machine should be like it is turned off.

Let us know what you find.

mdarnton · #7 Post by **mdarnton** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:38 am

Perhaps it's time for a new battery.

kjarrett · #8 Post by **kjarrett** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:47 am

Would the battery actually cause this? Weird. This T30 battery has only 10 cycles, was first used 11/2003, and has a full-charge capacity of 41.55wHr. Does this mean it (the battery) is still under warranty? The system itself has a manufacture date of 02/2003 (this battery came from another T30).

#9 Post by **K. Eng** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:35 pm

I don't think I've lost any significant amount of battery charge by putting my machine into hibernation.

Over time a battery will naturally loose its charge, but I don't think most people would see a loss if the machine was in hibernation for only a few hours.

kjarrett · #10 Post by **kjarrett** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 4:37 pm

I am starting to wonder my T30 operates differently in this regard than my T21 did.

The T21 would, with normal use on AC power (by design IIRC), slowly discharge over a period of a couple weeks until it reached 95%, at which point it would charge to 100%.

My T30 is exhibiting similar behavior, just with much less time between discharges and recharges. It was down to 97% earlier today, then this evening, it had kicked up to 100% again. It would take almost two weeks of daily use to get my T21 to do that.

Sp perhaps all this is by design. In any event I'll be shutting down and removing the PCMCIA card just to see if it matters...

-kj-

Neil1 · #11 Post by **Neil1** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:43 am

kjarrett wrote:In the years I had my T21, the battery charge NEVER dropped when it was in Hibernation mode and was unplugged from AC power.

My new (to me) T30, however, definitely loses some power ... I think it's due to the PCMCIA wireless "g" card I have (DLink DWL-G650). I had the exact same (physical!) card in my T21 and never noticed this.

Device manager reports that Power Save Mode for this card is set to "off" currently. Other choices are "Maximum" and "Normal." The internal WiFi card is disabled.

Is it normal for battery power to be consumed while the PC is in Hibernation mode?

Thanks, kj

I don't have the PCMCIA wireless card but a mini pci wireless card and IBM has sent me a new battery and my T40 still loses power while in hibernation mode, but when I shut down the T40 everything seems normal.

kjarrett · #12 Post by **kjarrett** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:58 am

That doesn't sound good...we shouldn't be losing power in Hibernation mode...anyone else having this issue?

tselling · #13 Post by **tselling** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:32 am

Could be IBM's Rescue & Recovery software: http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.ws ... MIGR-54809

kjarrett · #14 Post by **kjarrett** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:41 am

Outstanding sleuthing! However, I built this system myself from a bare-drive install and am 99.99999% sure this utility is not installed - I'm @ work now and can't check until later tonight. -kj-

awolfe63 · #15 Post by **awolfe63** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:07 pm

In general - power is off during hibernation. You can actually remove the battery. Try that - I'll bet you will see the same thing. I would bet on a current leak in the battery. If not - then it is likely a SW problem (coming out of hibernation).

kjarrett · #16 Post by **kjarrett** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:14 pm

I am on my T30 now.

I have confirmed IBM Rescue & Recovery is NOT on the system.

I have also confirmed this is not a battery issue; I usually run with two batteries (main plus ultrabay). For the past few days I ran with just the main battery and saw the loss of power during hibernation. Yesterday I installed the Ultrabay battery and this afternoon it too had lost about 6% of its power and is now recharging.

This was in hibernation mode with the PCMCIA wireless "g" card installed.

I will now try full shutdowns with the PCMCIA card installed, followed by combinations of the variables (hibernate, shutdown, PCMCIA).

Again, this is a fresh build of XP from a bare-drive install, not an IBM preload.

This stinks, I use Hibernation all the time, I don't want to have to be shutting down all the time or removing my PCMCIA card. Grrrrrrrrr!

Greg Gebhardt · #17 Post by **Greg Gebhardt** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:14 pm

awolfe63 wrote:In general - power is off during hibernation. You can actually remove the battery. Try that - I'll bet you will see the same thing. I would bet on a current leak in the battery. If not - then it is likely a SW problem (coming out of hibernation).

I have to agree with you 100%. The whole idea of hibernation is to save everything to the drive and shut it down using no power. I have left my TP in hibernation for long periods of time with no more than the usual battery discharge rate.

kjarrett · #18 Post by **kjarrett** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:02 pm

Guys, I have been using hibernation with my T21 for 4+ years and I *never* saw this leve of degradation. No way. In fact I know it's not the case because my Ultrabay battery has been sitting for the last week or more and didn't lose more than 1% of its charge, and last night, it lost 6% 12 hours. No way this is normal, no way. I'll give IBM a call shortly.

-kj-

Leon · #19 Post by **Leon** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:05 pm

keep your cool

, do your tests....

mdarnton · #20 Post by **mdarnton** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:43 pm

It's not inconceivable that there's a short in the system somewhere--the same type of thing that sometimes does in car batteries in old cars. But that's not the way it *should* be. Sounds like time for a trip back to the maker.

kjarrett · #21 Post by **kjarrett** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:37 pm

Just spent an hour with IBM tech support. We trouble-shot (?) aggressively together. No cause or solution was found. Fantastic guy though. Case is being kicked up to L2 support.

I also confirmed today that during SHUTDOWN there was only a normal amount of power drain after 24 hours. My Ultrabay battery went from 36.99 Wh to 36.93 Wh. So the issue is definitely something to do with hibernation. The power loss during hibernation was closer to 2 Wh. Definitely abnormal.

Next I will try kicking out the PCMCIA card and hibernating to see if that matters. Perhaps the L2 support team will be able to come up with something. I was actually hoping I would see the loss during SHUTDOWN, indicating a possible system board issue. No joy. Again, this happens with both my ultrabay and standard batteries.

Awesome tech support experience though - my tech was knowledgable, friendy, and relentless.

I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks all.

-kj-

kjarrett · #22 Post by **kjarrett** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:05 pm

Latest update: removing the PCMCIA card seems to lessen the power loss effect.

In hibernation, with the PCMCIA card removed, battery power loss was 1.22 Wh, or 3.3% of the battery strength. The Ultrabay battery (which drains first) was the one affected. The main battery, interestingly, lost .09 Wh during the same period, which seems consistent with "normal" power degradation (on an inactive cell).

Now, I will test once again, this time with the PCMCIA card IN, and in hibernation mode, to document the loss compared to the above.

Looks like no easy answer here...

-kj-

dclee012 · #23 Post by **dclee012** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:27 pm

what happens when you just shut down? same power loss?

kjarrett · #24 Post by **kjarrett** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 3:39 pm

what happens when you just shut down? same power loss?

See two posts up...

I also confirmed today that during SHUTDOWN there was only a normal amount of power drain after 24 hours. My Ultrabay battery went from 36.99 Wh to 36.93 Wh. So the issue is definitely something to do with hibernation. The power loss during hibernation was closer to 2 Wh. Definitely abnormal.

kjarrett · #25 Post by **kjarrett** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:26 pm

Ok I've finally got definitive data. Here it is in summary. All tests were done with a 24 hour interval. Figures are percents of remaining capacity, so, a 3.7% drop in Wh means a 3.7% decrease in the capacity available when the system was powered down or hibernated. It's not a % of the total capacity of the battery.

Power loss with PC shut down, PCMCIA card installed: .06 Wh, .1%

Power loss with PC in hibernation, PCMCIA card installed: 1.33 Wh, 3.7%

Power loss with PC in hibernation, PCMCIA card REMOVED: 1.22 Wh, 3.3%

So there is definitely a problem. I have not heard from IBM. I'll call them and probably send it in to see what they find.

I don't mind the recharging so much, it's just that it's obviously not right.

Thanks all,

-kj-

benz · #26 Post by **benz** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:56 pm

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but do you have that PCMCIA network card setup to "Wake on LAN"? I know that this feature has to draw a small amount of power to stay 'alert' for an incoming signal so it can initiate bootup. Try disabling that (in software or BIOS, not sure where but prob. BIOS) and see what you get.

awolfe63 · #27 Post by **awolfe63** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:12 pm

The network card is obviously not the problem - the power drain is still happening when it is removed.

What is the equivalent drain on Standby? I think you are not actually going in to Hibernate mode. Hibernate is supposed to physically turn off the power - you can take out the battery.

kjarrett · #28 Post by **kjarrett** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:42 pm

I never use standby. I am positive it is hibernating. One of the things the tech and I did was check the event viewer after we went into hibernation and pulled the battery out. An error event was logged. We researched it (www.eventid.net is awesome) and found nothing,

The PCMCIA card, as well as the internal WiFi, have wake on LAN disabled. Never checked the BIOS, will do.

Thanks for the ideas guys!

-kj-

kjarrett · #29 Post by **kjarrett** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:30 pm

Now, this is interesting. Ran another test. With the AC adapter connected, and plugged into the wall, power drain during hibernation is the same or less than in shutdown mode.

Up to now, I always hibernated at the end of the day, and have always disconnected from the AC adapter.

So my options are to change my behavior or get that system board.

Hmmmmmm...

-kj-

kjarrett · #30 Post by **kjarrett** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 12:12 pm

Hi folks,

Trying to get this resolved with IBM now.

We are working together patiently.

I need to know if this behavior is by design or not. I think not - and most of the posts to date corroborate this.

If your Thinkpad loses power during hibernation, would you please post on this thread with any info you can provide.

Alternatively, if you wish to contact IBM, please reference this case number:

20W9NPR

Which is my current case. Perhaps if others are having the problem, we can all help each other, and help IBM at the same time.

THANKS!

-kj-

Power drain while in Hibernation mode?

Power drain while in Hibernation mode?

Re: Power drain while in Hibernation mode?

Re: Power drain while in Hibernation mode?

Who is online