Really weird annoying T41 "crashing" problem.

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roberts5 · #1 Post by **roberts5** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:35 pm

So about a week ago my T41 starting doing this, sometimes almost randomly (it actually happened while writing this) but mostly when the computer gets banged a little.

It'll just go dead. Not completely dead, but powered dead. Music stops, the screen goes black (but is STILL powered) and its gone. But if I smack the computer OR push down on the palm rest right to the right of the touchpad (its seems to give there unlike on the left side) it'll come back on. However when it comes back I get really weird noise pixelation in two areas: my minimize, maximize close buttons, and my desktop. Sometimes my desktop goes completey off, other times it just gets random pixels. Also sometimes I get a full icon size box of noise arond my cursor which goes away. And once my whole screen when up in weird noise lines.

I feel like its a bad connection (memory maybe) or could my board be going bad? Its still under warrenty but I really can't afford to be w/o the comp for a week. Any thoughts?

#2 Post by **bill bolton** » Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:49 pm

> I really can't afford to be w/o the comp for a week. Any thoughts?

Find a way to do without it and get it fixed properly.

Cheers,

Bill

stangri · #3 Post by **stangri** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:41 am

look up the memtest.iso burn it onto a CD and boot from it if you want to check your memory, but to me it sounds like a MB problem. if it's still under warranty send it to IBM immediately.

roberts5 · #4 Post by **roberts5** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:50 am

Now it started freezing. In the event viewer I get a system error for: ati2mtag

The driver ati2dvag for the display device \Device\Video0 got stuck in an
infinite loop. This usually indicates a problem with the device itself or
with the device driver programming the hardware incorrectly. Please check
with your hardware device vendor for any driver updates.

So now I'm thinking maybe its either a memory problem or my video driver. Or who knows

Calling IBM tomorrow.

While I love this computer, I had my Dell for 4 years and haven't had nearly a quarter of the problems I've had w/ this one in 4 weeks...

roberts5 · #5 Post by **roberts5** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:58 pm

Opened the little baby up and reseated the harddrive and memory and blew some dust out.

So far so good, hopefully it was that simple.

bupkis · #6 Post by **bupkis** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:55 pm

I'm having the exact same problem with my T41. It started off happening only intermittently but now it happens all the time, to the point where I usually can't get past booting up. Sometimes it doesn't even boot to BIOS. I'm pretty confident that it's not the battery or hard drive -- I unplugged both and it still shows the same symptoms: locking up but sometimes responding to slight taps or nudges.

Unfortunately, my machine is out of warranty so I can't send it back. Reseating cards and blowing out dust didn't seem to have any effect. Please update the thread if the problem returns and you find another solution.

roberts5 · #7 Post by **roberts5** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:21 pm

Yeah, it was working fine for 5 or 6 hours, then it froze again. Called IBM and they seemed pretty confident that its the a problem with the video card (which is integrated into the main board). I'm getting a box tomorrow, and they said I should hopefully get it back by the end of the week.

While I'm dissapointed by the fact that I have to deal with this, I am very happy with IBM's customer service. They pick up their phones immediately, are very helpful and (I could barely believe this) I can call and request to have the tech call me when hes working on my computer so he can personally ask me questions and fill me in on whats wrong. I was very suprised and happy to hear this.

I'll update in a week if this fixes it.

roberts5 · #8 Post by **roberts5** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:51 pm

So...IBM service is AMAZING. I called on Monday, got a box and shipped back on Tuesday, and I got it back today on Thursday. They recieved it, fixed it and shipped it back on the same day!

Anyway, they replaced the Planar (mother) board. so far so good!

It shouldn't have gone bad in the first place, but IBM gets an A+ for fixing it so quickly.

kyrotech · #9 Post by **kyrotech** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:11 pm

for some reason ive seen many faultry mobility 7500 32 MB on Thinkpad T40/T41/T42, but a simple system board replacement fixes it, offcourse

bupkis · #10 Post by **bupkis** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:43 pm

As someone with an expired warranty, does anyone know how I could get my hands on a replacement motherboard (Planar??) for my T41? And how easy are these things to actually swap out? I've put together and disassembled desktop systems before but never a laptop.

roberts5 · #11 Post by **roberts5** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:30 pm

Well the new board is bad too. I'm getting a different but similar crashing problem.

Its going back again on Monday and I'm requesting either a new board (vs. referbished) or possibly one with a different GPU considering the frequency of Radeon 7500 32Mb problems.

I wonder what is actually going bad w/ them....?

#12 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:09 pm

bupkis wrote:As someone with an expired warranty, does anyone know how I could get my hands on a replacement motherboard (Planar??) for my T41?

1. Google the part number for the system board.
2. Search e-bay with the system board part number.
3. Buy from IBM from following site. Link: Maintenance parts site

djalias · #13 Post by **djalias** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:38 pm

I have been having this same problem with my t41, with all the symptoms described above, ie. sound stops, graphic corruption, and almost every time i turn it on i have to push down the right side (or push up the left) to make it start. What triggers the problem is when it gets twisted counter-clockwise, as in the right side going up, and the left side going down. i have also noticed that it triggers the usb ports from working at full 2.0 speed, to being detected (and working at) 1.1 speed. Has anyone found a working solution yet? roberts' new motherboard apparently didnt fix the problem? And also, is there a manefacturers warranty on thinkpads? i bought mine used, but quite new. I think the date on it is late 2004...

#14 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:26 pm

The twisting causing your problem sounds like a bad solder joint or bad connection on the motherboard.

Some IBM warranties (on new ThinkPads) are 1-year and some are 3-year. You need to check on IBM's warranty site to see if you are still covered.

roberts5 · #15 Post by **roberts5** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:22 am

Well it looks like they finally fixed it. Who knows how long till this 7500 chip fails...

From what I've read they fail often. I really wish IBM would look into this issue further but I guess its just easier/cheaper for them to blindly replace bad boards w/ refurbished ones hoping it fixes it.

I'm just happy to have my compter back. I do love this thing!

smadnell · #16 Post by **smadnell** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:58 am

This is a common problem with the T series. With the T30's it shows up as a bad ram slot and with the T4x's you get wierd crashes, BSOD's, ATI Errors, etc... This is all because of damage done to the motherboard. As far as I can tell, it's caused by repeated flexing of the motherboard as users hold the entire laptop from a corner of the palmrest (like you would when passing an empty plate during a meal).

I support about 300 Thinkpad T30 and T4x's and we've had to send an embarrassing amount back to IBM. Unfortunately, they often come back with new problems. I don't know why each time they have to pretend like they've never heard of the problem but, eventually they just agree to replace it. They are very responsive in that sense.

roberts5 · #17 Post by **roberts5** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:16 pm

As far as I can tell, it's caused by repeated flexing of the motherboard as users hold the entire laptop from a corner of the palmrest (like you would when passing an empty plate during a meal).

That is a really interesting point that I hadn't thought of before (should have). I will now make a conscious effort to avoid this.

Thanks.

vizda · #18 Post by **vizda** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:21 pm

Glad I found this forum - I'm having the exact same problem. It started just hours after the 1 year warranty expired. I'm a little worried that it is the mobo; if so, the part I need (93P4158) is $850. Any thoughts on what other options I might have, if any?

I've *loved* this machine (T42 SXGA 1.7M Dothan, 2378-FVU). I'm a visualization engineer, this has been my demo box for the past year, and I've talked up thinkpads to everyone who will listen. But if the mobo is really so fragile that I have to pick the thing up a certain way I will vigorously revoke that recommendation. I bought this machine because I thought I was getting away from Sony's shoddiness and cheap but overpriced and impossible to get parts, but maybe I'm out of the frying pan and into the fire.

smadnell · #19 Post by **smadnell** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 2:36 pm

I don't really blame the the mobo, I think it's the case that's not strong enough. You can feel and hear the movement if you try to flex it. I did run into some of those new widescreen models last weekend and immediately looked for this weekness, they seemed much stronger.

All I can think of is buying the extended warranty then calling them up about the problem. I'm not sure what the cost is since we use 3 year warranties but, i'm sure someone will reply with the going rate.

I have read that many others on this forum had this problem and eventually were able to get an entirely new replacement laptop, citing repeat problems.

I have been in touch with some higher ups in customer service/warranty dept's and they are "investigating" the issue. They had me send in 4 problem samples. Somehow, I don't think we're going to get 100 or so free laptops out it though.

stangri · #20 Post by **stangri** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:17 am

are these 4 samples still under warranty? I bought my T40 2.5 years ago and it's out of warranty and looks like my T40 had developped the similar problem -- I'm guessing IBM would be reluctunt to replace it for free won't they?

christopher_wolf · #21 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:42 am

But, the question then would be...Why does this seem to be happening, at least the majority of issues, to T42s and T42ps?

They use the same chassis and near identical system board layouts for the entire T4X Series...Wouldn't it affect the whole series then? I have seen many Thinkpads being handled in many different ways, yet I have yet to see one, in person, that has failed from a system board problem. Not that I am asking for it by any mean...Noooooo

Just a tad bit curious..

smadnell · #22 Post by **smadnell** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:14 am

Stangri,
We have 3 year warranties so the yes, the samples I sent are under warranty.

Chris,
We have about 240 T40,T41, and T42's. I've seen this problam across the board, but it's worse with the laptops that have been in use longer. So for us, the T40's are real bad, the T41's have been getting there, and now we have a couple bad T42's as well. Without the numbers in front of me I would guess 1/4 have had this issue.

Really weird annoying T41 "crashing" problem.

Really weird annoying T41 "crashing" problem.

grr.

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