Should I return this T43?

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jfenway · #1 Post by **jfenway** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:24 pm

I just got a 2688-89U T43 from a NY-based seller on EBay for $1399. The description clearly said 3-years warranty through IBM and implied that it is new (disclaimer says unless otherwise stated, all items are new in factory sealed box). I tripled check all these info. before buying it.

Well as it turned out that it is refurbished with 3 years warranty through seller (not even Mack that I keep seeing from Thinkpadworld). Now I have a decision to make on whether to return this.

Pros:
It's a nice laptop. 15" flexview SXGA+ screen, finger print reader, DVD/CD-RW, 1GB RAM, and 80GB HD. No dead pixels and the software was factory fresh. Laptop came from IBM sealed box. It doesn't look like I can get an equivalent new one for much less than $2000, which is more than I want to spend.
Good price new or refurbished.

Cons:
Very questionable warranty. The seller is sending me a written warranty statement which I will go through with a fine comb. They appear to be a reasonable size company but you know how that goes.
I don't like the fan either as others have suggested.

So should I return this and look for other bargains? Is it realistic to find an equipvalent T42p for anywhere near the price nowadays ?

Thanks!

J.

wolfman · #2 Post by **wolfman** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:56 pm

Is any part of the warranty through IBM? IE, first 30 or 90 days and the balance from the seller? If so, and you are happy with the machine and a comparable model is $600 more, might be worthwhile to check with IBM on the cost and/or availability of extending their portion of the warranty to a time frame that gives you piece of mind...

If the warranty is all 100% from the company you bought it from and/or IBM won't extend their portion for a reasonable price I'd probably lean towards sending it back myself...

Good luck either way...

brainpicker · #3 Post by **brainpicker** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:03 pm

I agree with what wolfman said.

Yak

christopher_wolf · #4 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:21 pm

I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said; is it possible that you can try it out for awhile and then report back to the seller? Somewhat like a 30-Day Period. It might be as difficult, if not more so, to find a similar T42p for the same price. Tell us what the seller says in the written warranty, are they any "opt-out" or limited liability clauses? Those could help and, seeing as how it is refurbished, I don't think it is unreasonable that the seller should be able to accept a return.

Either way, Good Luck

pipspeak · #5 Post by **pipspeak** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:39 pm

Generally only "factory refurbished" equipment comes with any sort of manufacturer warranty. It can range from 30 days to a year in my experience and usually has pretty much the same provisions as a regular (new) warranty.

If it was not factory refurbished (ie, it was refurbed by a third party) then it's highly unlikely the manufacturer would warranty it, so you're stuck with a third party warranty and (IMO) they are not worth much.

Personally I'd rather buy a 1-2 year old Thinkpad from a private buyer still with some of the original manufacturer warranty left on it.

jfenway · #6 Post by **jfenway** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:09 am

This one appears to be IBM refurbished even though it doesn't come with any warranty. IBM website says the warranty expired 9/16/05 but the packing list inside the box says 10/07/05 (it's an IBM packing list). The website said this computer was sold without a warranty and there doesn't appear to be an option to get it.

I am replacing a 4 years old thinkpad (model escapes me at the moment it's a PIII 450 with 13.3" screen and about 4 lbs) which only had problems related to the docking station and I did enjoy IBM's service. This is the warranty text I got from the seller (know anything about this company?). I am leaning towards sending it back now but am at a loss as to what to get for about the same or slightly more price. What do you guys think? I really appreciate all the feedback - this would have been my six or seventh Thinkpad and it's been a tough decision after Lenovo bought out the Thinkpad division but I keep coming back to it.

Thanks again,

J.

-- warranty text (got it via e-mail) --
CFOUSA1 INC.

WORLDWIDE COVERAGE

WTY TYPE CFO2012

LIMITED 3 YEAR WARRANTY OF REPAIR

3 Year International Computer Warranty
The computer equipment you have registered is warranted to operate properly, according to manufacturer's specification, for a period of 3 year after the manufacturer's original warranty has expired, or we shall repair same to operate properly.

In the event that this equipment requires any repairs or service it must be
delivered post paid with warranty number, the owner's name and address,
proof of purchase and description of difficulties encountered, to CFO, INC
472 EAST 101 STREET BROOKLYN N.Y 11236 with a check for $35.00 for PC or Laptops for return shipping and handling and insurance in the U.S. We strongly suggest that you insure your shipment when sending your unit to us.

To follow-up on your shipment to us, please call 866- 557-0500 OR 718 257 8800. For international inquiries contact us at sales@cfousa1.com

Your equipment will be restored to proper operating condition at no charge
to you, this includes all warranted parts and labor. Such service, repair or
adjustment of the equipment is assured the original purchaser only and
relates only to the components named and serial numbers recorded on original warranty. This warranty applies only if equipment has not been misused, tampered with, modified or damaged as a result of accident, liquid, impact or lack of proper care as indicated in the manual of operations. Warranty does not extend to installation or adjustment at the user's location, and it does not include accessory expansion boards, drives, all batteries any software programs, or sensitive information data on your system and other accessories. This limited warranty is transferable for a $25.00 administrative fee.

Limited warranty applies only to products(s) specified herein. It does not
cover software malfunction, or other expenses or consequential damages.

Software release must accompany

For International Inquiries, contact 866-557-0500

EQUIPMENT____2668-89u___s/n xxxxxxx

PLEASE KEEP THIS FOR PROOF OF OWNERSHIP FOR SERVICE

davidspalding · #7 Post by **davidspalding** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:58 am

My gut feeling (and two cents worth) is that if the info you've found about a) the provenance of the box and b) the warranty that covers this is not the same as that assured to you PRIOR to the sale, it's a bad sale. I'd not only send it back, but have it sent back at seller's expense. Fraud is fraud, no matter how big or small the vendor.

Of course, review the docs of what you read before the sale before you suit up for battle.

That would be my response. YMMV.

#8 Post by **Shimodax** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:53 pm

jfenway wrote:This one appears to be IBM refurbished even though it doesn't come with any warranty. IBM website says the warranty expired 9/16/05 but the packing list inside the box says 10/07/05 (it's an IBM packing list). The website said this computer was sold without a warranty and there doesn't appear to be an option to get it.

Is the T43 sold for that long? I mean the orignal T's all come with three years warranty, so I wonder how this one can have expierd this year. Are you sure it's actually a T43?

Also, it may be a good idea to call IBM and check the options. For example I have bought a new T43 in November which on the IBM website has only 31 (instead of 36 months) warrantly left. I called IBM about it and they said, that the proof of purchase (IBM dealer's invoice) would define the start of the actual warranty period. So maybe the online lookup won't mean much.

Other than that I'd say with $600 saved and a nice machine (no dead pixels, etc) I'd personally take the risk of keeping it. The only drawback I see is that you'd have to send the machine to that specific dealer for warranty (rather than being able to walk into any IBM shop) and possibly having him go out of business in the meantime.

Btw, regarding the fan noise, see my signature (just in case it's something to base your decision on).

Markus

smugiri · #9 Post by **smugiri** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:49 pm

Gotta agree with "shimodax" - if the machine is working fine and you saved $600, I would buy a warranty from IBM and be done with the seller. According to page 9 in IBM's post warranty handbook, 1 year of warranty would run you $169- I say go for this since it will still leave you ahead in the game.

austerlitz · #10 Post by **austerlitz** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:11 pm

for what it's worth, I just bought a thinkpad from what I believe to be the same seller you mention (though I haven't received it yet, it arrives next week) and I went through the whole debate with myself about the warranty. You say you triple checked to make sure the warranty was IBM but I know for a fact that the fine print at the bottom of the listings says something different, in my specific case (and I think it is the general case) they said the warranty was 6 months from IBM and then the rest of it from an independent company. I even emailed them to confirm and they replied promptly answering my questions.

In my humble opinion I don't actually think these guys are a fraud, they just get good deals on refurbished or returned stock and pass it on. IBM will only provide a 6 month warranty on refurbished items (and I am quite sure they don't extend it) and so these guys throw in another additional warranty which, I agree, is probably close to useless.

The way I look at it, I figure that I got a great deal, saved myself a bunch of money, and if something needs to get fixed (I've so far never had to get anything fixed under warranty in my lifetime, knock on wood) I can probably pay for it out of my pocket and still be ahead.

Again, I don't know for sure if we are talking about the same seller but I think we are and I am sure that the thinkpad I purchased never said anything about it being brand new but it did say it was remanufactured, IBM factory sealed and in brand new condition. If that's a problem for you then send it back.

You also mention wanting a T42p, is that correct? the 'p' series distinguish themselves from the non-p by having a workstation-class video card which is not what you currently have. I just mention it because the T42p would probably be much more than the T43 you have now.

hope that helps...

#11 Post by **Shimodax** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:32 pm

Well, the way you describe the offer would leave a sour note. I guess everybody would assume that description to mean brand new unless you're very careful, so I guess these people are playing games and they know it.

Otoh, as I said, $600 are not to be ignored and at least it's original IBM refurbished and if it's in fine condition I wouldn't care. Maybe it will never fail (I owned 5 Thinkpads over the year and never had to take one in for repair), maybe these people will still be in business then, maybe the 6 months IBM refurb guarantee will cover it and if not, maybe the repair will be less than $600. And maybe if something goes wrong it'll not be covered by warranty anyway (dropping it or something).

Markus

davidspalding · #12 Post by **davidspalding** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:47 pm

P.S. Shimodax, not all T43's come with a 3 year warranty. Some listed in the TABOOK.PDF have only 1 year warranties.

[edit] Uh, whoops, we established this is a refurb. The original warranty as per the TABOOK doesn't apply....

RukRem · #13 Post by **RukRem** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:02 pm

ok guys, I have a t42p. bought it brand new from IBM (3 year warranty)..
i treat it like a baby and within 1 year the computer needed a system board. replacement cost with labor your looking at min. $750 for the board and another $200 in laobor; roughly $950.... so think really carefully if saving $600 is really a savings. computers will break, i dont care how good they are built or who makes them, they will break...

davekung · #14 Post by **davekung** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:21 pm

I second that. Just had my system board (T42) replaced for issues related to USB ports not running at Full speed. I mailed it to lenovo on Monday and got it back Wednesday night. Did not spend a dime. Before I sent it in, I tried a local IBM authorized service center. All they did was re-install driver (did it myself many times) and disable error message. They wasted a whole week of my time.

If this is your only/main computer, I strongly urge you to cnsider a machine with 3 year warranty or longer. Just think about the time and energy you would have to spend to migrate/install all the software and data and the lost of use if it ever needs repair.

Besides, if you going to use the machine for at least 3 years, it comes down to less than $1 per day for the extra $$ you have to spend.

Should I return this T43?

Should I return this T43?

Warranty, IMPRTANT ?

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