Help for recovering a password, please!

Message

Scorpiontico · #1 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:27 pm

Hi guys, its been a while since ive posted.

now, my problem is:

i changed my hard disk and supervisor password (both are the same) and forgot it like a day after the change (stupid me).

i can login/boot into my computer and bios by fingerprint (thank god) and i know my administrator/passphrase password since those i did not modify.

GUYS is there a way i can recover or w/e the password?

please help me out, thanks.

#2 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:42 pm

I think you would be better off not using the security features of the ThinkPad.

Sorry, I don't have the answer you're looking for.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14326

cerebral_mamba · #3 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:32 am

Can you reset the password from the Security found in Thinkvantage menu? If you used the security chip to authenticate all these passwords, then you can do this. if not, the only way i know of is to send it to IBM and they will charge a fee for the same. It real pain staking procedure if one forgets the passwords.

Scorpiontico · #4 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:05 am

GomJabbar wrote:I think you would be better off not using the security features of the ThinkPad.
Sorry, I don't have the answer you're looking for.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=14326

that helps alot, thanks for taking the time.

cerebral_mamba wrote:Can you reset the password from the Security found in Thinkvantage menu? If you used the security chip to authenticate all these passwords, then you can do this. if not, the only way i know of is to send it to IBM and they will charge a fee for the same. It real pain staking procedure if one forgets the passwords.

any change must be done from the bios menu but thanks for your suggestions... any idea how much is the fee for this kind of service?

IS THERE ANY OTHER OPINION, SUGGESTION OR THOUGH IN REGARDS TO MY PROBLEM, PLEASE AND THANKS ALL!

davidspalding · #5 Post by **davidspalding** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:02 pm

Though Gom's comment might've seemed a bit snarky, he's making a good point. If you're forgetting passwords, and having trouble decrypting files that were in your "encrypt vault" (or whatever it's called), I'd reevaluate your reasons for using all these security features.

I chose NOt to even install some of the CSS features, like that encrypted file vault. Encrypting the entire hard drive is an idea, all IBM managers in some divisions are even required to do this. But if you use ANY of these, ensure you use that recovery tool in CSS that asks "the three questions"* to recover them. I believe that this is stored on Recovery discs when you make them.

Me, I use only the power-on password, and have the fingerprint reader enabled for this. I have no need for the admin/supervisor password on BIOS. It's "my machine," so no others are needed. Some of these other features are useful ONLY imho if the TP is a multi-user workstation (seems unlikely, but some may do that, e.g. Mom and Dad use the same TP for a home computer). All the other CSS bells and whistles are just that - cute toys, but arguably unnecessary for a personal computer harboring "family pictures" (in quotes because you must've encrypted them for a reason), college homework, and digital music files. If you don't harbor classified gov't. nuclear documents or secret egg roll recipes (WHAT'S UP, TIGER LILY?), I would lay off the security sheot.

For your case ... have you booted from your last set of recovery discs and tried the password recovery thingie? Maybe you backed that up without realizing it. HTH....

* "What is your name? What is your quest? What ... is your favorite color?"

[edit]P.S. For future reference, it pays to keep critical passwords in a sealed envelope in a firebox, or safe deposit box. Then if you find yourself in this dilemma, you have a solution. (And if you keep them in a sealed envelope at home, and that proverbial "curious girlfriend" opens it, you can tell it was opened, and deal with the relationship issues later.)

LtTPfan · #6 Post by **LtTPfan** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:21 pm

IBM does not recover passwords. They replace motherboards and hard drives--at full retail price. You are probably looking at $600+ just for the motherboard from IBM. There are folks that offer recovery service, some are very pricey, others not so. There is someone on eBay that performs this service for about $50 but is offering a "winter sale" for $20.99. Search eBay for "IBM Thinkpad Repair Supervisor Password Recover Remove" and you should find him. I am not affiliated with him nor have I used his service, I'm just passing this on in case it might be of help to you.

Aroc · #7 Post by **Aroc** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:50 pm

Not much unless you have another supervisor password.

I had this problem on a Pentium 100 notebook and it basically requires the whole board to be swapped. It doesn't sound like anything has changed in the past few years. I didn't want to pony up the cash. So I had to thrash an 18 month old computer. So now I securely record all of my passwords.

I wish you luck.

cruzlite · #8 Post by **cruzlite** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:09 pm

Scorpiontico,
Quote from jdhurst;
"Any alpha-numeric password can be cracked with Cain and 3Gb of rainbow tables in about 5 minutes. Alpha-numeric-symbol tables take about 20Gb and about 8 months to build on one CPU"
Link to post;
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
It might be helpfull to know how 'strong' your pw is...[If you recall]
It seems to me that what you need is someone with the software, tables, and knowledge to use them...
Perhaps LtTPfan's 'E-Bay tech' is such a person...[Price seems right]...
Perhaps someone on this site would undertake the job...

Best lu7k,
Don

smugiri · #9 Post by **smugiri** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:20 pm

I do not think Cain will work here: it works with Windows passwords and need an running host OS. With a BIOS password, you get three tries then the system shuts down. Then, you have to make it reboot so you can try again another three times .... etc etc. Could be wrong but I do not think you can brute force a BIOS (hardware level ) password in a sensible period of time due to the "3 attempts then go into reboot cycle" problem ...

You can start your search for methods on google or try some default BIOS passwords ? I think that Thinkpads use a Phoenix BIOS ( should be Phoenix FirstBIOS(tm) Notebook Pro Version but might be different for some ) but I do not have definitive information on this.

#10 Post by **JaneL** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:42 pm

Scorpiontico wrote:IS THERE ANY OTHER OPINION, SUGGESTION OR THOUGH IN REGARDS TO MY PROBLEM, PLEASE AND THANKS ALL!

My opinion is that you should read item #12 in the FAQ.

Scorpiontico · #11 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:18 am

how about if i disable the chip from windows by the ibm embedded security subsystem menu in control panel?

correct me if im wrong, but isn't the supervisor password stored in this chip?

thanks.

ps: i feel so [censored] stupid and frustrated.

#12 Post by **bill bolton** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:02 am

You could try these folks.....

http://www.nortek.on.ca/hard_disk_password.html

or do search on eBay for the offerings of user "mog1669"

... I guess it depends on how badly you want to get into the system.

Cheers,

Bill

#13 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:16 am

IRT passwords in general..

i use a fixed set of passwords..

low security = simple
med-low = less simple
med = medium

and so forth..

all variations on a theme..

and the financial passwords get changed in a predictable way (for me) every 6 months..

what you need to do is close your thinkpad, sit back, have a cool drink and take a short nap with the thought of remembering what that new password is..

in short, clear your mind and it should come back to you..

otherwise there is always hypnosis..

davidspalding · #14 Post by **davidspalding** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:51 pm

Scorpiontico wrote:ps: i feel so ... stupid and frustrated.

Be careful whose name you take in vain, especially in a public forum. You could use the help of your or anyone else's deity about now....

Scorpiontico · #15 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:56 pm

davidspalding wrote:
Scorpiontico wrote:ps: i feel so ... stupid and frustrated.
Be careful whose name you take in vain, especially in a public forum. You could use the help of your or anyone else's deity about now....

you're right, my apologies.

chchchigga · #16 Post by **chchchigga** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:12 pm

Is there a way to reset both of the HDD passwords if you don't need the data on them?

frogla · #17 Post by **frogla** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:25 am

Scorpiontico wrote:Hi guys, its been a while since ive posted.

now, my problem is:

i changed my hard disk and supervisor password (both are the same) and forgot it like a day after the change (stupid me).

i can login/boot into my computer and bios by fingerprint (thank god) and i know my administrator/passphrase password since those i did not modify.

GUYS is there a way i can recover or w/e the password?

please help me out, thanks.

Hopefully this might help

http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/

Fortunately it made me able to recover the lost password on my daughters R40-when IBM support told me I had to run a full hard disk recovery.

LtTPfan · #18 Post by **LtTPfan** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:31 am

chchchigga wrote:Is there a way to reset both of the HDD passwords if you don't need the data on them?

The drive can be unlocked but this will wipe out any data. I've done this before using a hack for UltimateTV. Go to the link below, download mhd3.zip, extract the executable then follow the instructions in the 1st link. When I did it, I used a desktop PC and a 3.5-2.5" drive adapter but that was because I had the backup image on the PC, not because it is required (as I recall).

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=25827

This link doesn't require registration to download:
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show ... did=363885

Scorpiontico · #19 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:57 am

LtTPfan wrote:
chchchigga wrote:Is there a way to reset both of the HDD passwords if you don't need the data on them?
The drive can be unlocked but this will wipe out any data. I've done this before using a hack for UltimateTV. Go to the link below, download mhd3.zip, extract the executable then follow the instructions in the 1st link. When I did it, I used a desktop PC and a 3.5-2.5" drive adapter but that was because I had the backup image on the PC, not because it is required (as I recall).

http://www.dealdatabase.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=25827

This link doesn't require registration to download:
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show ... did=363885

are you saying that i do not need another computer in order to format the drive and erase the password of it (set by the bios)? could i use my thinkpad to do this (which is the HD's of)?

thanks alot.

#20 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:06 am

I happened to go to Bill Morrow's web page this morning, and I saw the following.

For those thinkpad users who have screwed up,
and lost or don't remember their hard disk
password, follow this link
http://www.nortek.on.ca/nortek/
These guys can help you..

LtTPfan · #21 Post by **LtTPfan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:54 am

Scorpiontico wrote:are you saying that i do not need another computer in order to format the drive and erase the password of it (set by the bios)? could i use my thinkpad to do this (which is the HD's of)?

If you have a floppy drive, you should be able to put MHD3.com on a bootable floppy and wipe it from your Thinkpad. I assume you could do the same with a bootable CD. Alternatively, if you have a 2nd hard drive adapter you should be able to do it from your Thinkpad. I believe I did it that way before as well as from a desktop but am going off my feeble memory. I also don't recall for certain but I don't believe the hard drive password is saved to EEPROM as are the POP and SVP (it's been a while since I disected my Thinkpad's EEPROM, I'll have to look for the map and info I saved). Note that it does take quite a bit of time for MHD3 to wipe as indicated in the link I posted.

bigben20 · #22 Post by **bigben20** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:22 pm

If everything else fails and you can't figure out how to remove Supervisor password then here is something you should try. Check on ebay.com
ID: mog1669 (81+ 100% positive) or search for supervisor password.
I bought a used T40 from anandtech for $450 which has a lost Supervisor password but still under warranty. Since it was my first IBM, I was too scared to open anything. So I just bought his service and it cost be a total of $80 including shipping both ways. It took 10 days to get the laptop back
but it was well worth the wait. BTW, the guy's name is Michael Lew(Chino, CA) & I talked to him on phone and he seems to be a nice guy. He promises to remove password without tampering the security chip. So the warranty remains intact. And Supervisor password removal service is the only thing he sells on ebay.

It cost me $530 for a T40 with 1.5 P-M processor, 1 GB RAM, CDRW/DVD
cisco wireless, warranty until 11/06.

dino · #23 Post by **dino** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:01 pm

Even though I don't need a password reset, I would sure love to know how he does it!

On page 32 of the hardware manual, ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mo ... 9t2393.pdf

Supervisor password:A supervisor password (SVP) protects the system
information stored in the BIOS Setup Utility. The user must enter the SVP
in order to get access to the BIOS Setup Utility and change the system
configuration.

Attention: If the SVP has been forgotten and cannot be made available to the
servicer, there is no service procedure to reset the password. The system
board must be replaced for a scheduled fee.

Scorpiontico · #24 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:23 pm

so basically you guys are advising to:

-take out batteries so power-on password will be erased, then
-erase the hard drive according to LtTPFan method, and finally
-have the computer serviced for supervisor password removal.

am i missing anything here? will this give me full control of my computer again (meaning with no pws)?

thanks alot.

ps: let me know of anything else.

#25 Post by **GomJabbar** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:04 pm

Your 3-step method should work, but it might be better to let the service company handle it all (unless they are going to charge you too much more money).

LtTPfan · #26 Post by **LtTPfan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:42 pm

Yeah, what GomJabbar said. If you need a SVP cleared and you have other passwords set as well, you might as well let the company clearing it clear all. One outfit on eBay mentions they will clear all for the same price. I believe he mentions he can only clear the HDP if it is in the original machine it was set in, which reminds me that there is a copy saved in EEPROM. It seems like clearing the HDP in EEPROM after wiping the hard drive required setting a SVP, then clearing it. . . it's all just too darn hazy for this old fool. As for how he is doing it, it is likely like how I did it years ago on 770s, make a test clip for reading/writing the EEPROM. It really wasn't that hard and I've thought about doing it as a business but that would require my obtaining each model to read and map out the EEPROM, and I considered the probability of dealing with creeps who would say I fouled up their machine that was working perfectly before I touched it.

ZoneMan · #27 Post by **ZoneMan** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:52 pm

Been a while thought I would jump in and offer some info.

First, the Hard drive password is not stored in the system board, it stays with the hard drive. Thats why moving it to another machine does not work, it will still prompt you for the password.

In warranty $357 for replacement. You can however purchase one on your own cheaper, as long as you purchase it from IBM it will retain the warranty of the TP. You will need recovery cds, if you have a newer model machine you can create your own.

The power on password is resident on the board and can be reset, in warranty it cost $187 to have it sent in to thier service center for reset.

The supervisor password is on the board as well and cannot be reset, in warranty its $725 for system board replacement.
If you had the Hard drive and the system board replaced in the service center it would be $895.

I would suggest that you send the machine in for service, if you try one of the procedures out there you risk damaging your board.

Zone

nwguru · #28 Post by **nwguru** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:45 am

Unfortunately, IBM finally changed the method AND location where the Supervisor Password is stored in the T43/R52 Series. So far, nobody has the solution for SVP recovery or removal in these models. I have been providing the service for years on eBay and until the T43, have been 100% successful. The solution is being researched, but with the huge push toward TCPA, this is a lot more difficult than the early models. If anyone is in the know as to which module IBM has moved the TCPA and Security Chips on the T43 (and pinouts), that info would be extremely helpful. Thanks.

nwguru · #29 Post by **nwguru** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:46 am

Sorry, the posting engine returned an error the first time I uploaded.

Scorpiontico · #30 Post by **Scorpiontico** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:09 am

is there anyone else who could contribute on the matter (my problem).

what ive been told is that there is no such service for t43s at this time, i wonder if the nortek guys offer something.

thanks in advance and for all the previous posts guys.