T42 OR T43 Purchase?

Message

collector_edi · #1 Post by **collector_edi** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:50 pm

I am going to close the deal on either model no later than early next week. I am getting paralysis by analysis and was hoping for a little help.

I am going with the 15 1600X1200 high resolution screen for either model.

I am simply using it for VMWARE and MS Office applications. I do ODBC connecting and write simple queries that don't take a lot of processing power. I do have photoshop and other graphic editing tools.

Is the fan noise a big disturbance? What would you purchase?

LtTPfan · #2 Post by **LtTPfan** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:13 pm

Based on your intended use I might suggest you reconsider your choice of hi-res screen. Many folks, especially older (although there is no indication of your age on your post), find hi-res screens much harder on their eyes and have to take steps to make viewing easier, negating the benefits of higher resolutions. Just because it costs more, in computers especially, doesn't necessarrily mean it's better for a particular use or person. Your money might be better spent on other upgrades like memory, hard drives, etc.

Just a freindly suggestion to consider that might save you some bucks and eye strain.

collector_edi · #3 Post by **collector_edi** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:38 pm

Based on your intended use I might suggest you reconsider your choice of hi-res screen. Many folks, especially older (although there is no indication of your age on your post), find hi-res screens much harder on their eyes and have to take steps to make viewing easier, negating the benefits of higher resolutions. Just because it costs more, in computers especially, doesn't necessarrily mean it's better for a particular use or person. Your money might be better spent on other upgrades like memory, hard drives, etc.

Just a freindly suggestion to consider that might save you some bucks and eye strain.

I have a Dell Inspiron 8100 that I've been using for 4 1/2 years and love the 1600x1200. In ten year I might regret it but I need the extra real estate since I use my laptop for home and work.

I plan on getting 2 gb of ram due to VMware being a memory hog. Actually I have a decent budget to work with.

padpad · #4 Post by **padpad** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:16 pm

Then the high-end model of T42 is a good choice.

No worries when you swap the HD or install some old softwares(some will cause blue-screen in a T43).

christopher_wolf · #5 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:56 pm

I am curious as to what you mean by "Older software will cause a bluescreen on a T43;" Software is a function of the OS you are on and, provided it isn't driver/firmware code or anything that fiddles with very low level, almost machine specific, operations...You will not get any problems with it at all.

collector_edi · #6 Post by **collector_edi** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:45 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:I am curious as to what you mean by "Older software will cause a bluescreen on a T43;" Software is a function of the OS you are on and, provided it isn't driver/firmware code or anything that fiddles with very low level, almost machine specific, operations...You will not get any problems with it at all.

Are you advocating the T43? I went to Office Depot and finally touched one! I looked at the HP Pavillions [widescreen] and was momentarily wowed until I went back to the T43.

Stingray · #7 Post by **Stingray** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:50 pm

collector_edi wrote:
christopher_wolf wrote:I am curious as to what you mean by "Older software will cause a bluescreen on a T43;" Software is a function of the OS you are on and, provided it isn't driver/firmware code or anything that fiddles with very low level, almost machine specific, operations...You will not get any problems with it at all.
Are you advocating the T43? I went to Office Depot and finally touched one! I looked at the HP Pavillions [widescreen] and was momentarily wowed until I went back to the T43.

I had the EXACT same experience…..

christopher_wolf · #8 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:24 pm

No, I am smply asking a question. Software that is cleared to work with a certain OS should run on any machine that OS is on as long as the minimum system requirements are met. I find it rather boggling to say that there exists a large portion of software that runs on a T42 and not run at all on a T43. That would suprise me greatly.

I am not so impressed by the HP Pavillions; I had one for awhile, and I have to say it didn't live up to what was stated. The keyboard on the HP was flaky with a tactle response akin to pressing a saturated sponge against sheet rock with flex, and the system itself couldn't cool down enough. It had to have three fans to cool down the CPU; when I took it apart, I discovered that the *all* of the cooling was directed towards the CPU, the heatsink only covered half of the GPU with a flimsy silicon pad that moved. Hence I got problems with overheating even when I was running a low end graphics chipset. Plus, it was ridiculously heavy for its specs, about twice as heavy as my T43.

davidspalding · #9 Post by **davidspalding** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:39 pm

Funny how people say, "I'm only running MS Office...." Seems that with each new release of Office, Word, Outlook,... all seem to use a ton o' RAM, and do all kinds of background processing to make Clippy the Paper Clip do the Charleston, or spell check the shopping list against Strunk & White.

I agree with the view that 1600x1200 may seem nice, but it also makes the system a bit larger. 1400x1050 is roomy enough, and if money saved gets you a DVD burner, or a can buy a Dock, or larger battery.... Well, "a penny saved is a penny earned."

collector_edi · #10 Post by **collector_edi** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:17 pm

I think I am going to take a chance on the T43 despite what I've read regarding fan noise. The fan noise would irritate me but It can't be more than what I've grown accustomed to with my Dell 8100 Inspiron.

I want to go with Verison's wireless network and wish the darn thing was capable of having more than 2gb of ram. Money is not an option on this purchase. Okay, money is an option but I have room to spend.

Aristotle11 · #11 Post by **Aristotle11** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 10:50 pm

I have a 42, my dad-in-law the 43, and mine is better IMHO. Less noise, better battery life, same speed as far as a mere human eye can tell, and cheaper!

collector_edi · #12 Post by **collector_edi** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:31 pm

Aristotle11 wrote:I have a 42, my dad-in-law the 43, and mine is better IMHO. Less noise, better battery life, same speed as far as a mere human eye can tell, and cheaper!

Is the noise difference significant? Now I am leaning back to the 42.

christopher_wolf · #13 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:21 am

Ehhh, Not significant from what I have used; I have worked on a T42 and my T43 and, to me, the fan noise varies little. I would have to pay quite close attention to pick up the changes in behavior, it seems that all that has happened is a slight elevation in the steady-state cooling rate that the system targets. My Friend's T42 has similar behavior, right now I am typing this alongside it and its fan is on whilst mine has been off for around 45 minutes since boot up. Upon checking the bottoms of both laptops, I can barely feel any temperature difference, and it is certainly nothing that would be of any discomfort as I have used my T43 on my lap for 3 hours on end on most days; compiling code, no less and it doesn't get anywhere near uncomfortable. I do, sadly, know what a loud fan is like, but not from my T43 or my friend's T42; rather, from an old HP laptop I had. It would get so hot near the bottom that, if your legs were right under the desk, you would feel it and start to sweat. And the fans, yes it had 3 fans and the heatsink was 3/4 of the machine, sounded like a low profile vacuum cleaner. I also have a huge Dell widescreen; the fan noise, when it comes on from my T43 or from the T42 next to me, is *nowhere* near the noise level that would cause irritation.

Also, on a slightly related note, check out the Fan Control Utility Thread; it is an excellent program. It has, however, been used successfully on a variety of Thinkpads and not just the T43s; T42s (indeed), X Series (From the X32 I think), Z Series, and R Series have all had this program tried on them. That is a good indication of exactly how much fan noise perception is a user trait as well.

I can say, though, that Thinkpads have been amongst the quietest I have heard and my T43 is no exception to this and neither is my friend's T42.

davidspalding · #14 Post by **davidspalding** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:59 pm

I haven't experienced this "excessive fan noise" issue, but then, maybe I've got a loud fan like what some might complain about it, and don't notice because my T43 is quieter than most recent laptops that I've looked at.

I suspect it's far easier for us that have NOT encountered it to be a bit paranoid. Something like the keyboard issue. If you've owned a T30, T41, then switch to a new Z60, or late-model T43, suddenly the keyboard "feels different" from before. "Different" isn't necessarily "not as good." Change can be good. But if you've been using keyboards like that on ... um ... I think the worst I've felt were the old Sony VAIOs ... then ANY Thinkpad keyboard is going to feel swell.

Q.E.D.: I'm sitting here in the living room, Michael Brook & Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan's NIGHT SONG playing on the hi-fi, Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers' SWING TIME on the TV, muted. Fan noise, what fan noise? 2/3 of the time, I'm using my TP with an IBM USB keyboard or docked with an old MaxiSwitch 123-key programmable. Disappointing keyboard? not a bit of it.

It's all perspective. I wouldn't let "fan noise" or "cruddy keyboard" reports dissuade you from a purchase. Get the one you want, and if these are issues, work through the support. After all, anomalous anecdotal reports aside, IBM support is so much better than most other laptop makers'.

collector_edi · #15 Post by **collector_edi** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:17 pm

Thank you for the feedback. I am going to get the T43 and take my chances by virtue of it being the latest design. I pasted networking communication options from the site. Will I need to purchase the Ericson PC card to utilize Verizon's wireless features?

Am I hijacking my own thread?

Integrated Ethernet
Intel PRO/1000 Gigabit Ethernet (Standard)

Integrated WiFi wireless LAN
Wi-Fi wireless upgradable (Standard)

Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters [2] [Help me decide]
None
11a/b/g Wireless LAN Mini-PCI Adapter II [add $40.00]
Intel Pro/Wireless 2200BG Mini PCI Adapter [add $10.00]

Wireless LAN accessories [2] [Help me decide]
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wireless CardBus Adapter [$89.00]

Wireless WAN accessories [2] [Help me decide]
Ericsson GC83 Edge PC Card [$249.99]

collector_edi · #16 Post by **collector_edi** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:22 pm

The Lenovo help section is working again. I learned that the Ericson adaptor is for the Cingular network.

turbolium · #17 Post by **turbolium** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:59 pm

I just switched from dell inspiron 8000 (which i loved)
got myself t42 and really happy with it, was doing lots of research and figured t43 was a bit waste of money

the fan on t42 is amazing compare to dell the only noise you should worry is the HD because owning it for a week now it’s the only noise I could distinctly hear working with my lappy in bed with absolute quietness

but if you are used to 8100 fans then it should not be a problem IMHO

but get the better screen you possibly can and worry about the rest

christopher_wolf · #18 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:14 pm

Waste of money? I don't think so. It all depends on what you want to do with the Thinkpad. If you want very high performance, then the T43 edges significantly ahead of the T42. For what I do, I do indeed think that the T43 is the most appropriate laptop to get (besides a Powerbook, of course).

turbolium · #19 Post by **turbolium** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:52 pm

Pardon me not a waste but for a high performance you can find more powerful and cheaper laptops from dell or Toshiba or who ever but not ibm and for work/games nothing will bit 19’ desktop monitor and REAL mouse

My point is the $$$ amount spend and what you get does not really match, but of course new stuff will always cost more and money spend on it move our technological process, but I think saving couple of hundred $$$ can be a better option unless ofcourse money is not an issue then you can buy the top one and don’t care what other people say

christopher_wolf · #20 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:18 pm

I am not talking about work or games; but compute power, if I may use that term broadly. I work with PyMol, MATLAB, video composition from lab data, direct hookup to lab machines, and compilers of various languages (FORTRAN, C/C++, Java, Verilog, etc). I also put some serious work on my Thinkpad and, so far, it has out-performed just about every other laptop and a few workstations at what it does. Perhaps a Dell could try and match the compute power, but it couldn't put it in a efficient package that a Thinkpad does. Portability, Durabilty, etc; I should know, I also have a Dell M60 and it is *not* the kind of laptop my Thinkpad is. Gaming is a small subset of processing when compared to other process that I have put on my Thinkpad. It isn't all "media-based" or "content-based;" I can make anything produce content, but of what value and how mobile will it be? The only other system that I have seen that can compete with my Thinkpad at those tasks are heavier, not as good looking, hotter, and not as mobile.

collector_edi · #21 Post by **collector_edi** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:36 pm

2379RKU THINKPAD T42 2379 - PENTIUM M 755 2 GHZ - 15" TFT

I made the purchase today. Thank you one and all for your input. I was somewhat under whelmed with having to wait 40 minutes to finally speak to someone.

I decided on the T42p with the following specs:

2 GB ram
60 GB 7200 rpm hdd
15" 1600x1200 resolution
ThinkPad T42 2379 - Pentium M 755 2 GHz - 15" TFT

I hope down the road I don't regret not purchasing the T43 and the Sonoma chipset. The 7200rpm HDD was the deal breaker on the T42. I had to make a decision before I let another week go by.

ttan98 · #22 Post by **ttan98** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:44 am

How much did you pay?

collector_edi · #23 Post by **collector_edi** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:28 pm

$2399 plus $270 for the extra gig of RAM.

cerebral_mamba · #24 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:55 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Waste of money? I don't think so. It all depends on what you want to do with the Thinkpad. If you want very high performance, then the T43 edges significantly ahead of the T42. For what I do, I do indeed think that the T43 is the most appropriate laptop to get (besides a Powerbook, of course).

I hope you are not serious with the PowerBook remark. Its got potato chip processing power. Open Matlab and type "BENCH" in the command prompt and Matlab will do some computations, plottings etc and give you a graphical description of where your computer stands with respect to other configurations. My 1.86GHz T43 is better than Dual Processor G5s

.

We had a Matlab Seminar at school and the room was fully equiped with G4 PowerBooks & Apple Desktops. some the operations we performed that day took just 20sec on my machine while 1:59 sec on the Macs. When it comes to raw computational power, at least in Matlab, Macs are curently way back trailing.

christopher_wolf · #25 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:23 pm

No; I am serious....If you get into any *useful* computational lab scenario; you qill quickly find that a PowerMac G5 can hold its own with many systems out there. I have also used IBM Intelli POWER Workstations with performance strangely similar to the PowerMac G5 (they use amazingly similar layouts); they both perform some seriously powerful calculations, more so than MATLAB which, in itself, is not optimized very well. As an example, I have seen a piddling matrix inversion (25x25 non-ill conditioned) take absurdly long on some top-of-the-line systems. I can say, from experience programming code in FORTRAN to do those exact same matrix inversions, that they could be optimized more. MATLAB isn't a mathematical calculator...It is a high-level interpreter; There is a huge list of things that could be optimized with it.

Attka · #26 Post by **Attka** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:32 am

Hi All!

What you think? Now i have a T42 specify down, and now i have a choice i can +500$ a T43. I don't known what make. Please help me. Sorry i'm very bad In English.

T43

New 3 year warranty
1.86GHz/2MB
512MB RAM
40GB 5400rpm HDD
14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD
64MB ATI Radeon X300
CD-RW/DVD
BlueTooth
WLAN
Modem
1Gb Ethernet
UltraNav
Secure Chip
Fingerprint Reader
6c Li-Ion

Bye:Attka

asiafish · #27 Post by **asiafish** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:49 am

For the T42 to T43 upgrade I have only one question... Why?

As for Macs and the PowerBook, its not about horsepower, which is comprable on the G5 to the Pentium 4, but rather the experience. I enjoy using my ThinkPad T42p for many things, including games, rendering video and the amazing battery life, but that does not make it better than a Mac, only different.

My PowerBook G4 (12") is a slower computer, but since it doesn't need any sort of virus or spyware protection (other than my own care), it is actually about the same in general (non-intensive) performance. Word is just as snappy on the "slow" G4 as it is on the "fast" Pentium M.

My ThinkPad is a great machine for travel and personal use, but my law firm is 100% Mac. The ease of use of the interface, the intelligent integration of the OS and the very specific hardware it was designed for, and the security inherent in Mac OSX, which is both from a lack of interest by malware authors and the security of real Unix, made going Mac a very easy coice.

Aroc · #28 Post by **Aroc** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:01 pm

Bah. SXGA+ is only barely adequate for development, testing, training, and Q/A work using VMWare. You can't do really do two SVGA or XGA virutal machines (or TS or ICA sessions side by side, along with a notetaking window of some sort (Lotus Notes, Outlook, MS Word, Acrobat Full, some blogging tool, etc, pick your poison). Even a single XGA window can eat up a lot of real estate on a SXGA+ desktop. This depends a lot on how you work. You can actually run out of real estate.

For plain office work SXGA+ is fabulous, though. So I am just nitpicking. SXGA+ is clearly the sweet spot, which is while I fathom I see people defending it so much. I only wish UXGA or even QXGA didn't carry the premium is does. It would also be nice if those resolutions were available on 14 inch as well. I believe one of the respondants mentioned the bulkiness of the 15 inch T-series. This is true. The weight is OK, it just a bulkier form-factor.

I just felt like responding to the statement that someone who uses VMWare should rethink the investment in a hi-res screen. Entirely the opposite in some cases!

T42 OR T43 Purchase?

T42 OR T43 Purchase?

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