How to boot from Multibay

[chiefmeisterflex]

Hi Guys,

I am one problem away from purchasing my first T43 (brand new). I run two independant companies and want two separate Windows OS on each drive. I don't want two separate partitions on one hard drive (as I want the space) and so I have decided to get a 2nd HD for the Multibay.

Now, from browsing the net I believe that the Mutibay is excluded from the BIOS boot list. (IDE HDD1 - this is the multibay HD right?).

The only option this leaves me with is a program like PartitionMagic. Basically I would like the option of pressing a key during a boot, and choosing which hard drive to boot from (BootMagic?)

As I understand, there are quite a few partition on the factory installed HD (predesktop, recovery, os etc). Will I have the space to create a small partition for BootMagic (the PartitionMagic boot utility( and then will this allow me to boot from my Ultrabay HDD.

Apologize if this thread belongs in a symantec forum, but I'm sure you guys will probably have a better clue, and hopefully someone has already achieved this.

Any help is appreciated.

Regards

AJ

[chiefmeisterflex]

Just wanted to add quickly, that if it isn't possible to boot from the Mutibay (not giving up that quickly yet though!), is it possible to boot from a External USB Hard Drive.

Thanks

[GomJabbar]

I see this information in the Access IBM help for the BIOS menu on my T42. It would seem to indicate that you can boot from the multibay drive - either by pressing F12 or changing the boot order in the BIOS,

Changing the startup sequence

* Note: To change the startup sequence temporarily so that the system starts up from a different drive, do the following:

1. Turn off the computer.
2. Turn on the computer; then, while the "To interrupt normal startup, press the blue Access IBM button" message is displayed at the lower-left of the screen, press F12.

Selecting the Startup item causes the following submenu to be displayed:

- Boot
- Network

To change the startup sequence, do the following:

1. Click Boot or Network; then press Enter.

- You can use the Boot submenu to specify the startup sequence that runs when you turn on the power. Refer to "Boot submenu."
- You can use the Network submenu to specify the startup sequence that runs when Wake on LAN(R) is started. Wake on LAN is commonly used by LAN administrators in corporate networks to get remote access to your computer. Refer to "Network submenu."

2. Select the device you want to start first.
Use these keys to set the order that the BIOS will use when starting an operating system:
- F6 or F5 moves the device up or down.
- x excludes or includes the device to start.
- 1 loads the default startup sequence.

3. Press F10 to save the changes and restart the system.

The Boot submenu

The following list, showing the order in which devices will be started up, is always displayed. Even devices that are not attached to or installed on your computer are listed. For each device that is attached to or installed on the computer, information about it is presented after the colon.

1. USB FDD:
2. Legacy Floppy Drives:
3. ATAPI CD0:
4. USB CD:
5. IDE HDD0:
6. PCI LAN:
7. USB HDD:
8. IDE HDD1:

[jdhurst]

You can boot from the Ultra Bay with no problem. Just set the boot order in the BIOS.

A word to the wise however. Beginning with SP2 for Windows XP, you cannot boot the same version of Windows XP from either drive. One of them will screw up. So to do what you want with the Ultra Bay, you need two licenses.
... JD Hurst

[chiefmeisterflex]

Hi guys thanks for info and the quick reply. There are two reasons why I was led to believe that BIOS did not allow booting from the Ultrabay.

Firstly, when I was put the system along with 2nd HDD in the checkout on Lenovo's website, there were asterisks by the 2nd HDD, which indicated that this could not be used a primary hard drive. Funny though, I went to the website to check it again, and this has disappeared.

Secondly, on the thinkpad support page there is a bios simulator and it says that the IDE HDD1 is excluded from boot list. There is a text only version at : http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-61434
Near the bottom under the boot menu, I quote :

Boot - Default boot priority order: 1: USB FDD, 2: Legacy Floppy Drives, 3:ATAPI CD0:Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-R9012, 4: USB CD, 5: IDE HDD0 IC25N040ATCS05-0-(PM) 6: PCI LAN: IBA GE Slot 0208 v1217 7: -USB HDD, 8: IDE HDD1 Excluded from boot order: IDE HDD2, ATAPI CD1
Network - Default boot priority order: 1: PCI LAN: IBA GE Slot 0208 v1217 2: USB FDD, 3: Legacy Floppy Drives, 4:ATAPI CD0:Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-R9012, 5: USB CD, 6: IDE HDD0 IC25N040ATCS05-0-(PM) 7: -USB HDD, 8: IDE HDD1 Excluded from boot order: IDE HDD2, ATAPI CD1

What I need to know then is which IDE channel is the Ultrabay drive in. HDD1 or HDD2? If it's HDD1 then I'm ok.

This however present the problem that JDHurst mentioned about two XP's. Is this like a piracy/licensing issue because sure two copies of XP one the same machine is legal. Or is it simply a software glitch/malfunction\oversight. And do you have a link to a thread or a web page detailing this problem and possible solutions.

And I take it you can boot from a USB Hard Drive anyway.

Regards

[RonS]

Yes, you can boot from a USB flash drive.

[jdhurst]

You are not allowed to run two copies of the same license - it is not a glitch. After SP2, I put a new disk with a duplicate license for changeove reasons in the main drive and my existing disk in the ultra bay. After booting in the ultra bay, the main drive was not able to run. It would start and then complain about the license. I had to format it and start again. I always got rid of the second copy fairly promptly, but SP2 pretty much enforces it. For your purposes (ongoing use), you need another license.
... JD Hurst

[Domain]

Fortunately Office Licenses aren't so asinine, you can install/legally activate twice on the same machine for each respective copy OS. If your companies do require Office, you lucked out.

Good luck with the dual boot situation, it's a shame Microsoft has to be so greedy for a few dollars in licensing. Especially when most would just go out to find a Volume License Key for free, anyway.

[jdhurst]

You even have to be careful with Office (at least you used to). You can always load two copies of Office Professional (and I do - desktop and laptop). Office Standard is (at least was) limited to one copy.

I am not a big fan of the picayune limitations either. I have an XP license for each machine (IBM Desktop and ThinkPad). Otherwise I load one license of everything else on both machines. In the large, vendors permit this. Those that don't (and I do hope you are in this forum) can get stuffed. Courts would laugh them off the face of the earth because there is no damage to them.

... JD Hurst

[Domain]

I actually read the license, and at least when I used Office XP Standard for Students and Teachers, you were permitted one license, but could install twice if it were a dual-boot scenario. Activation never worked right, but I just said it was a dual-boot and they gave me the numbers. I loved doing it...I was a big Win2k fan back in the day.

Now, with Office 2003 Standard for Students and Teachers, you are permitted three licenses. It's a good deal for what you pay, assuming you are a teacher or student.

[ZoneMan]

Should be able to boot off the ultrabay hard drive no problem as long as it shows in the bios.

Anything USB other than a Floppy wont boot from the boot order in the bios.
Plug in the device on the USB, boot, then hit F12, you should see USB HDD in the list and can boot from there.

Zone.

[leegaard]

I am quite certain that its possible to boot from a drive placed in the multiabay. The drive has to be prepared in a proper way though.

It has to installed when residing in "the belly" of the machine. When installed, just put in over in the hdd-adapter of the multibay and then use F12 during boot.

I am almost certain that I have done that without any problem. Will have to retry it soon.

My comments here are based on NT (NT4-W2K-XP) not Linux that I less certain will work. I think it will though.

[Phil_C]

You are not allowed to run two copies of the same license - it is not a glitch. After SP2, I put a new disk with a duplicate license for changeove reasons in the main drive and my existing disk in the ultra bay. After booting in the ultra bay, the main drive was not able to run. It would start and then complain about the license. I had to format it and start again. I always got rid of the second copy fairly promptly, but SP2 pretty much enforces it. For your purposes (ongoing use), you need another license.
... JD Hurst

Interesting. But I back up my HDD to a 2nd HDD in the ultrabay of my T43p with Partition Magic. The copy of C: is therefore also set as Active. I'm not sure that you can have two Active partitions, even if they are on separate disks --- I could not find definitive information on the MS support site. So I first hide, then unhide the backup of C:, which sets the status to None.

I was curious about booting from the bay drive, so I tried it by using The Win XP boot screen that gives me a choice of which Windows installation to boot from. I went back and forth a couple of times with no problem.

Shortly afterward, I saw your post. Now I'm wondering why this worked for me.

My purpose is only to have a perfect backup in case of a main HDD crash, so multibooting is not something I'm doing regularly. Perhaps I should just use PM to hide the backup C: after the copy is made. In case of a crash, I can theoretically boot from the PM CD and use PM to unhide and set Active the backup C:.

Was I just lucky I didn't run into a problem during my little experiment?

[bill bolton]

Was I just lucky I didn't run into a problem during my little experiment?

As far as I can tell, clone images of the same OS instance are not (immediately?) effected, however, differement images on the same installation key are.

Cheers,

Bill

[donking!]

As far as I can tell, clone images of the same OS instance are not (immediately?) effected, however, differement images on the same installation key are.

Bill could you elaborate on that a bit? I'm not sure I follow. What does "different images on the same installation key" mean? Thanks.

[bill bolton]

I'm not sure I follow. What does "different images on the same installation key" mean? Thanks.

Newly cloned bootable image disks will be exactly the same.... same product key, same registry entries, same hardware change monitor status etc etc.

An Windows XP instance that was separately installed from an installation disk set/image using the same key (i.e. not an exact clone) will have a lot of differences from another installation off the same disk set, not the least of which would be the time that the installation was completed. It is these differences which XP seems to detect and get upset about if the product keys are the same.

Presumably a clone disk and its original will drift away from each other over time, as one or other is used "in production". They may eventually reach a point where XP starts to regard them as separate instances.... since I don't know exactly how the XP mechanism works, I have no real idea when that point might be reached.

Cheers,

Bill

[Phil_C]

Bill,

That would explain my lack of a problem, since I don't really use the backup.

Do you know if I can leave the backup C: set as Active? That is, can you have two Active Win XP installations (one on each physical disk) at the same time without causing a disaster? This would save possible trouble when recovering from a crash by inserting the backup disk as the main HDD with a hidden C: partition.

I did have such a situation at work on a T40. It SHOULD have been easy to use the bootable Partition Magic CD to set the hidden C: as Active, but I had trouble accessing the HDD for some reason.

That is why I have taken to setting the backup on my T43p to "none" instead of Active or Hidden. At least it's visible. But I'm not sure if that will help or not.

[bill bolton]

Do you know if I can leave the backup C: set as Active?

Sorry, I don't know. I have a 2nd HDD insert and have used it to make clones of my primary HDD, but I don't leave the cloned copies in the laptop and so far have never had to do a full system recovery using a cloned copy drive.

As I'm prepared to put the clone copy drive in the primary bay if I need to recover, the issue of having two instances of the same product key for XP has concurrently in the system for more than a short period of time never been important enough for me to investigate it more fully.

Cheers,

Bill

[Phil_C]

So you are doing the same thing as I am with regard to the clone drive, just making the backup at regular intervals and keeping it in case you need to replace a crashed primary drive. Two Active partitions don't seem to cause a problem for a few minutes.

I guess I'm a bit leery because I had a disaster way back when I upgraded to Win XP on my old A21p. BOTH copies got fouled up after both drives were in the notebook for a very short time. Of course I had no way to verify that that is what caused the problem. But it's still vivid in my mind!

Thanks for the info.

[proaudioguy]

I agree that if you clone the drive you might be OK, but recently Microsoft update has added a validation step. My understanding is you can skip this step if you like and the update still works. OTOH, it could burn you.

As for dual boot, if you mod the boot.ini file by hand you can easily have it come up with the choice of drive. Here is a copy of mine.
Edit: be sure it's the boot.ini on the main drive.

[boot loader]
timeout=3
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINNT="Windows 2000 Professional" /fastdetect

This puts the choice on my screen for 3 seconds. Before doing this I had to go into the F1 setup startup order and move the other hard drive to the top. OR, physically move the hard drive. Needless to say that was a hassle.

[Phil_C]

Yes, my boot.ini file looks similar to yours, but with:

"Microsoft Windows XP Professional"

and

"Microsoft Windows XP Professional" (#1).

It's interesting that I did not modify boot.ini. Win XP saw the clone image and modified the file on its own.

Anyway, I do not plan on keeping both disks in the notebook for more than a few minutes after each backup/clone operation. I hope I don't have any future trouble with the validation step you mention.