new t42 - bad wireless

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hankster · #1 Post by **hankster** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:40 pm

hi all,

need some help. just got this machine (2378duu) and i'm mostly liking it, but my wife's hp notebook is kicking its @$$ in the wireless dept. it has the same card (2200bg), but i've found a difference: if i check advanced properties in device manager for the 2200bg, i see this:

ibm - hardware version = 1.1.3
hp - hardware version = 6.1.3

does the hp have a newer (better) card or firmware of ???, and this is why it performs so much better?

things i've done so far:
- updated access connections and driver to latest
- removed access connection and let xp manage wireless.
and i see no consistant improvement. its not dropping connections, but the internet and lan performance is terrible.

recommendations? tips?? tricks???

tia,

hank

Flightvector · #2 Post by **Flightvector** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:36 am

What kind of router are you dealing with, because some compatibility conflicts do exist, and how do you define this wireless performance (total bandwidth, distance, etc..)? If the performance gap is as high as you mention and it is not merely a compatibility issue, firmware will rarely boost full-reception bandwidth in any perceptible amount since your card's bandwidth is not a limiting factor. What kind of transfer rates are you getting within your LAN?

hankster · #3 Post by **hankster** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:59 am

ms wireless "B" model with latest firmware. i'm not sure how this is a factor as the hp laptop with (supposedly) the same wireless card seems to have no issues. haven't done any benchmarking of the transfer rates, just "great" for the hp and "lousy to so-so" for the thinkpad.

thanks,

hank

#4 Post by **BillMorrow** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:26 am

two of my customers have had a wifi card that was bad in new T42p's..
ibm replaced and customers installed and all was fine..

symptom was flaky connections..

hankster · #5 Post by **hankster** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:43 am

will call ibm today.

but what do you make of the difference in the hardware version reported by device manager?

ibm - hardware version = 1.1.3
hp - hardware version = 6.1.3

tia,

hank

csarrasin · #6 Post by **csarrasin** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:37 pm

morrow wrote:two of my customers have had a wifi card that was bad in new T42p's..
ibm replaced and customers installed and all was fine..

symptom was flaky connections..

Yeah, mine is acting kind of flaky too (I have a T42p 2373-KTU, which comes with the so-called IBM a/b/g). My trusty old T30 was *much* better at this

Bill, were these other customers of yours in the same KTU/KXU batch as mine by any chance (you shipped it on 2nd July)?

Does anybody know if IBM will exchange one of their a/b/g against an 2200bg under warranty. I hear they are better; they also appear to be cheaper (and I certainly don't need the 'a').

hankster · #7 Post by **hankster** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:49 pm

spoke with ibm - they're sending me a new card. have to practically disassemble the thing to get it in - remove the keyboard, the palmrest, the franistan...

they're also sending me another battery to try as mine seems to wobble a bit even though 'locked' in. fingers crossed.

hank

synapse · #8 Post by **synapse** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:41 pm

Let us know how this works for you Hank. I am very curious. Also, how much does your battery wobble? Thanks-

-Dan

hankster · #9 Post by **hankster** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:12 am

battery wobble - it looks like almost 1/16" gap at the end away from the lock. it's like the middle hook on the battery is too long, or the middle lock is too close to the edge.

#10 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Jul 16, 2004 3:54 am

hankster wrote:battery wobble - it looks like almost 1/16" gap at the end away from the lock. it's like the middle hook on the battery is too long, or the middle lock is too close to the edge.

i use a heat guy to CAREFULLY and SLIGHTLY soften the hook and move it slightly inward toward the battery...

works just fine..

IRT the wifi card..
it might be a problem from the early machines..

swapping is not all that tough..
worst part is popping the keyboard bezel off..
it should slide slightly to the left once the screws are out..
there are tiny hooks holding it to the sides..
about mid point..
tugging will get these hooks to let go..

Porsche · #11 Post by **Porsche** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 6:16 pm

The abg card which came with my T42p KTU last Friday did not work. It could connect to my access point but could not get an IP address with WPA. It was fine with no encryption.

csarrasin · #12 Post by **csarrasin** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:08 pm

I had exactly the same problem (my AP is a Draytek Vigor 2600VG and I uninstalled IBM's Access Connections).

I've opened up the AP's tolerance of session encryption to make it accept WEP or WPA/PSK sessions and the a/b/g card now appears to work fine (despite still being set to use WPA)...

I'm still not 100% happy with this as my old T30's 'b' card was fine with strict WPA session enforcement (same AP obviously). I may try to return the card for a replacement when I get a chance. I'm still wondering whether the a/b/g card won't currently support WPA correctly due to crappy firmware or if it's just my (and seemingly yours too) instance of them being defective.

If you do return yours and receive a replacement that performs better, could you please let us know.

Porsche · #13 Post by **Porsche** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:58 pm

A replacement card is coming in a few days. I hope that this new one will work and that the one I have is just defective. Otherwise, I will have no choice but to return the whole laptop for a refund.

Eric · #14 Post by **Eric** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:07 pm

I had issues with my new thinkpad's wireless....it worked, but REALLY slowly. They sent me a new card and it works great now. Hopefully that should fix your problem as well

csarrasin · #15 Post by **csarrasin** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:12 am

Porsche wrote:A replacement card is coming in a few days. I hope that this new one will work and that the one I have is just defective. Otherwise, I will have no choice but to return the whole laptop for a refund.

Unless you need the 'a' capability, you could always try to get them to swap their a/b/g card for an Intel 2200BG. Some people have reported better success with that one... Not sure if they will accept this as a warranty claim though but if worse comes to worse, it's reasonably cheap ($59)...

ryan · #16 Post by **ryan** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:43 am

what number did you call? 1800SERVIBM ? i called that and can't figure out what option it is... nm.... 11

hankster · #17 Post by **hankster** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:26 am

new wifi card and battery arrived and installed.

battery fit is just as poor as last one. this is the thinkpad quality i've read about???

didn't have a lot of time to test out the wireless yet, but initial impressions are it is about the same, and still worse than the wife's hp with the same wifi card. maybe i have a bad antenna? what do i do about that???

another troubling find - seems the keyboard is not well supported under the cursor/arrow keys. it bends downward when depressing these keys, and it doesn't take much force to see a deflection. is this normal, or is some substructure/support feature missing in this area on my thinkpad?

maybe i just have a lemon, but so far i am not impressed by this machine. thinking its time to send it back for a replacement. opinions?

tia,

hank

Porsche · #18 Post by **Porsche** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:30 pm

My new abg card arrived today and I installed it in my KTU without a hitch, My wireless is now working with both WPA and WEP. Also, I replaced my palmrest with a new one since there was too much creaking in the touchpad. The feel now is firm. At the same time, I replaced the Chinese-made keyboard with the Thai one. I think the Thai keyboard makes a significant difference in terms of tactile feel.

csarrasin · #19 Post by **csarrasin** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:23 pm

hankster wrote:battery fit is just as poor as last one. this is the thinkpad quality i've read about???

Can't comment on that. The battery fit on my 2373-KTU is absolutely fine (and yes, it's a Sanyo - go figure; although it is a 6-cell instead of the original 9-cell). Maybe I am slightly less sensitive to that issue?

hankster wrote:still worse than the wife's hp with the same wifi card. maybe i have a bad antenna? what do i do about that???

Maybe that's a stupid suggestion but since they are the same cards, could you try to swap them out physically? That would at least indicate whether it's the card that's faulty or the antenna and/or drivers?

hankster wrote:seems the keyboard is not well supported under the cursor/arrow keys. it bends downward when depressing these keys, and it doesn't take much force to see a deflection

Many others have reported this. My initial US (Thai) keyboard was fine but then I ordered a Swiss (also Thai) keyboard and fitted it myself and it definitely did exhibit the bending/lack of support problem. I just digged out a reasonably slim and adhesive piece of tape from my toolbox and tacked it under the keyboard and it's now rock solid. Whilst I would agree that IBM isn't quite living up to its reputations for impecable Thinkpad keyboards anymore, that's hardly a "showstopper" IMHO as the fix is really easy....

hankster wrote:maybe i just have a lemon, but so far i am not impressed by this machine. thinking its time to send it back for a replacement. opinions?

You could try but you'll have to wait and possibly get a worse one? How does the build quality of your wife's HP compare with that of your T42? Last I heard, TPs were still among the best manufactured machines on the market...

Just my £.02...

hankster · #20 Post by **hankster** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:53 am

csarrasin,

battery - by fine fit, do you mean that when "locked" it does not slide fwd ~1/16"? that is what i'm getting.

wifi - i won't be taking apart my wife's hp and potentially messing up a good thing. i see no reason why the thinkpad shouldn't be as good or better in this area w/o dismantling the hp.

keyboard - its a thai. shimmed up the weak side and now it feels better.

fit and finish on the hp appears as good as the thinkpad, much better in the battery area. keyboard is well supported and feels pretty good. it has a larger hard drive, newer processor, larger screen, came with cd's for all the software (amazing that ibm doesn't do this), and cost several hundred dollars less.

am i being unreasonable expecting better from a thinkpad?

hank

csarrasin · #21 Post by **csarrasin** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:46 pm

hankster wrote:battery - by fine fit, do you mean that when "locked" it does not slide fwd ~1/16"? that is what i'm getting.

No, mine is definitely steady.

hankster wrote:wifi - i won't be taking apart my wife's hp and potentially messing up a good thing. i see no reason why the thinkpad shouldn't be as good or better in this area w/o dismantling the hp.

Agreed....

hankster wrote:fit and finish on the hp appears as good as the thinkpad, much better in the battery area. keyboard is well supported and feels pretty good. it has a larger hard drive, newer processor, larger screen, came with cd's for all the software (amazing that ibm doesn't do this), and cost several hundred dollars less.

Which TP did you get? Mine's got a Pentium M 755 2GHz, which AFAIK, is the best mobile processor you can get at the moment. There also are some 15" T42's at UXGA (1600x1200) resolution, although I have personally chosen a 14" because I care for transportability (the whole issue of buying a laptop in the first place IMHO). The size of the hard drive also isn't the full story: the 7200RPM 60GB found in my T42p will outperform any other laptop hard drive peformance wise and I need more spped than additional space at the moment anyway. I agree that there is little excuse for the lack of recovery CDs...

It sounds like you're not happy with your T42 and, if you really prefer everything about the hp, then maybe you should indeed return the tp and get one of the formers (especially since you've been able to see both side-by-side). I'm not trying to be funny, what I mean is that if you can get something that performs better for a lesser price, then you should probably go for it... BTW, which hp model is it? I'm just curious... The hp laptops I have seen lately have looked like hardly portable monsters to me...[/quote]

hankster · #22 Post by **hankster** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 11:56 pm

i'm not complaining about my cpu's speed, just making the contrast. the hp (zt3000) is one of the new widescreen displays (15.4") - its a nice screen. but its not the most portable - i'm wanting the portability of the 14" thinkpad. all i want is the thinkpad i've read so much about. hopefully ibm will take care of things and i'll get a battery like yours - what is the part number of yours???

thanks,

hank

#23 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:30 am

hankster wrote:i'm not complaining about my cpu's speed, just making the contrast. the hp (zt3000) is one of the new widescreen displays (15.4") - its a nice screen. but its not the most portable - i'm wanting the portability of the 14" thinkpad. all i want is the thinkpad i've read so much about. hopefully ibm will take care of things and i'll get a battery like yours - what is the part number of yours???

thanks,

hank

i know it is a hoky solution, but when i first noticed this little anomoly, i took a heat gun and VERY carefully softened the hook on the battery and "formed" it inward a tiny bit..
enough to tighten the battery in its home..
locked it in just fine..
did not need or did not worry about this in the other subsequent T series..

IRT h/p..
since i had a very close relationship to that company for many years (pre-carley) all their hardware was always superlative..
VERY well built..
i still have a couple h/p calculators (a business partner-II and an h/p 16C (programmer)) which still work..
had several h/p computers which were very well built and designed in the 1978 to 1984 time frame)

so i was surprised to hear that the h/p notebooks were sub-standard..
which talk i have chalked up to the compaq acquisition..

happy to hear h/p still makes good stuff..

ryan · #24 Post by **ryan** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:20 am

i'll be calling IBM for a fourth time today (each time i call i get a different suggestion). the guy i just talked to yesterday was placing the blame on my router, but still had me update my bios and some other thing related to bios. hopefully this time they'll send me the silly replacement for my flawed card.

Leon · #25 Post by **Leon** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:34 am

just ask for one!!!!

ryan · #26 Post by **ryan** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 10:44 am

Leon wrote:just ask for one!!!!

didn't know you could do that. i'm on the phone now, told the gold team tech my problems and to send me the card! 'hold on while i look up the part'. finally! haha thanks.

Leon · #27 Post by **Leon** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:06 am

IBM = GOOD

We (and me) are a picky bunch. Most of the issues that we bring up in this forum are real. But, in the end, like having fights and disagreements in your family, IBM takes care of most of us in the end!

synapse · #28 Post by **synapse** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:26 pm

Hi-

Another question on the battery- How much do your batteries wiggle and move around when they are locked in? Mine on my T42p seems to give about 1/16" back and forth and a little more than that up and down. Is this normal? If I call IBM will they send me a new one? Does anyone have any experience with getting other batteries from IBM to fix this? Thank you for your help!

-Dan

ryan · #29 Post by **ryan** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:50 pm

haha well i'm glad ibm took care of me. though now i'm missing 4 palm rest screws that i haven't been able to find after much searching, and the palm rest pops up and down every few seconds. i'll probably end up screwing whatever similar sized screws i can find in there.

Leon · #30 Post by **Leon** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:39 pm

call, and I bet they send them

new t42 - bad wireless

new t42 - bad wireless

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