T42 Thai (NMB), China (Alps) Keyboard Impressons (long)

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bhtooefr · #31 Post by **bhtooefr** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:24 am

Hmm... I've posted this in other threads, but anyone know what country P/N 02K5789 was made in, and who it was made by? I'd rather not remove the KB...

I'd like to know if there's another (better) keyboard I could get for this thing.

The snap on the keys feels almost like a Model M's snap (good), but as a Model M user, I expect for the press to register during the snap. I'm retraining myself to hammer this keyboard for stuff to register, but that's not fun...

FWIW, the little rubber things under the keys were black, not blue, on this. Don't know if that means anything, considering that this is a four year old laptop, and the T42/43 is at most a one year old laptop...

vliou · #32 Post by **vliou** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:12 am

How can you tell what type of keyboard you have without opening the case?...I have the 14" 2378RAU (Can edition). I don't want to void the warranty though...

bhtooefr · #33 Post by **bhtooefr** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:28 am

In that case, go to the FAQ. There's something about "how do I find out what parts my ThinkPad shipped with". Go there.

Then, put in your type (2378) and your serial number (on the bottom), and it'll tell you.

The Weissman · #34 Post by **The Weissman** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:52 am

Parts lookup link:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm

Wholesomer · #35 Post by **Wholesomer** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:56 am

vliou wrote:How can you tell what type of keyboard you have without opening the case?...I have the 14" 2378RAU (Can edition). I don't want to void the warranty though...

If you have not removed the "Access IBM", all you have to do is push the Blue "Access IBM" button. Click on (i) System Information. Click on Warranty & Parts. It will tell you what you have. No need to search on Lenovo Website.

Inky · #36 Post by **Inky** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:01 pm

Kenn, you keyboard junkie!

I remember a post of yours a while back where you said you could tell the various keyboards apart even if you were blindfolded.

I thought yay! finally someone else who appreciates the nuances of a good keyboard!

It's fair to say that good keyboards are the number one reason I prefer ThinkPads. If ThinkPads ever discard keyboard ergonomics entirely just to make the laptop sleeker (the way some manufacturers do), I'd immediately move on to whoever does start offering good keyboards.

I also love the ORIGINAL Microsoft Natural keyboard, which is what I use on my desktop.

I have to confess I was not a fan of the original IBM keyboards. The strong metal spring loaded switches (made by Alps) were sturdy and very reliable (and loud!), but they required a little too much key pressure for my taste, so there's obviously some room here for personal preferences.

I always loved the feel of rubber dome switches, originally introduced by Maxiswitch, which is the type of switch used in the original Microsoft Natural keyboard.

For those who don't know: Imagine a small rubber dome, and picture yourself lightly depressing the tip of it until the moment where that top portion *flips* inside out. That is a rubber dome switch. The moment when it flips creates a distinctive sensation letting you know you pushed the key down far enough--so you don't have to push the key all the way down. Partway through the stroke, before hitting bottom, you can ease off the key, because you KNOW you pushed it far enough. Also, the fact that the rubber dome provides some of the energy for that flip means the resistance you felt as you pushed down is suddenly gone. Ahhhhh.

The one downside to the rubber dome switch is that like many rubber products, it ages and starts to lose its flexibility, losing its "snap" until eventually it disintegrates.

On to the ThinkPads...
There was a T42 on display at a store in NYC and I loved how the keyboard felt. I could see myself typing on it for hours.

Then they put a new T43 on display which had a keyboard with an awful spongy feel and I became so worried that the new T42 I was about to get might arrive with one of those spongy keyboards. I was so worried that I even considered buying the used floor model of the T42 I liked, just to be sure I had that keyboard.

The funny thing is for a long time I suspected that in lemming fashion people had somehow latched onto the idea that the Thai keyboard is the one to get, and then through a fad-like word-of-mouth process it fed on itself for no good reason.

I examined the store display T42 with the keyboard I loved, looked at the serial number on the underside, plugged the number into the parts lookup website, and WOW, sure enough it WAS the NMB (Thai) keyboard. It isn't just a silly rumor!

Dreading that my new T42 might arrive with a SPONGY keyboard, I ordered TWO Thai keyboards on the same day that I ordered my T42.

The keyboards were relatively cheap (roughly $40 apiece with shipping and tax). Incidentally, the FRU number for the NMB(Thai) keyboard is no longer 08K5044. Due to the Lenovo changover some of these part numbers have changed. The new part number is: 39T0519. Why did I order two of them? Because I recognize the feel as a rubber dome switch and as I said, they wear out eventually. When my T42 keyboard starts to wear out I'll pop in one of my spare Thai keyboards and it'll be like new. Also, who knows what problems I might run into ordering one of these in the future. They could even stop making it and switch to some god awful squishy keyboard for all I know. Having extras is cheap insurance.

The Thai keyboards were supposedly on backorder and wouldn't ship for a whole month, yet I recieved them within a week! Beautiful customer service. (And yes, it does say "made in Thailand" on the underside of the keyboards.)

But here's the funniest thing: When my new T42 arrived I liked the keyboard it came with. And when I did a serial number parts lookup on the new ThinkPad, it said that I had a Chicony keyboard!!! Either the parts lookup is WRONG or else the Chicony now uses rubber dome switches. Both do have a distinct click sensation when you depress the keys. I suppose I should open up my T42 and find out for sure which keyboard it is, but you know that saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

-Inky

kaplanfx · #37 Post by **kaplanfx** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 5:26 pm

I like my keyboard, but having never owned and IBM or used the Thai keyboard I don't know if it could be much, much better. Can anyone who has experiance with both compare the ALPS (FRU 13N9957) vs the Thai (FRU 39T0519) I'm wondering its worth the bother as I find the keyboard great compared to friends laptops, but if the Thai is "that much" better then I will give Lenovo a ring and see if they will send one out.

-kaplanfx

P.S Will I have to ship my keyboard back to Lenovo or can I just use whichver I prefer if I tell them my current one is squeaky and get the Thai?

c333 · #38 Post by **c333** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:25 pm

kaplanfx, if your happy with it, stay with it. I appreciate Ken's comment, but he is a power-user with a speed of over 120wpm. At that level, I'm sure there is a difference. Although I too have never tried the Thai, I'm guessing an average user like myself (around 50wpm) would feel little if any difference. Also realize some have reported differences in the Thai keyboards; they may not all be alike. I personally don't mind it. I would say only consider it if you do a large amount of fast typing. Also, getting a replacement isn't easy. Even if a rep agrees, the Thai might be on backorder. If this happens, the computer automatically switches it to an in-stock chinese keyboard, so you are left with the same thing.

#39 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:31 pm

Inky wrote:But here's the funniest thing: When my new T42 arrived I liked the keyboard it came with. And when I did a serial number parts lookup on the new ThinkPad, it said that I had a Chicony keyboard!!!

I have a T42 as well. When I go to parts lookup, it shows 08K4957 Mfg. #, and 08K4986 FRU #. I've pretty much determined that this is a 'Chinese' keyboard, but I can't find any reliable information on whether it's an ALPS or Chicony. Any help here?

kaplanfx · #40 Post by **kaplanfx** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:07 pm

Mine says ALPS next to the FRU in the description section of my parts lookup, but I have never seen another person mention the same FRU.

-kaplanfx

#41 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:46 pm

kaplanfx wrote:Mine says ALPS next to the FRU in the description section of my parts lookup, but I have never seen another person mention the same FRU.

-kaplanfx

RATS!!! Why isn't mine more informative? Mine only says: KEYBOARD - US ENGLISH. This is whether I use Access IBM local Warranty and Parts Information, or whether I go to the Parts lookup website. I've searched this forum for any references to 08K4986, but all I've found, is that there is a consensus that it is Chinese. I've done Google searches, and searches on IBM's and Lenovo's websites with no results.

Inky · #42 Post by **Inky** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:51 am

GomJabbar wrote:I have a T42 as well. When I go to parts lookup, it shows 08K4957 Mfg. #, and 08K4986 FRU #. I've pretty much determined that this is a 'Chinese' keyboard, but I can't find any reliable information on whether it's an ALPS or Chicony. Any help here?

For some reason the FRU you provided is not even listed on IBM's keyboard parts grid (for either T42's or T43's) but notice that all the FRU's starting with 08K happen to be Thai keyboards which makes it seem like yours would be a Thai keyboard.

How sure are you about those numbers? Make sure you enter the serial number correctly--they mix numbers and letters so you have to read it carefully. In any case, this is very weird. You're saying that some IBM web page is definitely telling you that those are the numbers for your keyboard? Where are you getting the numbers from? How could IBM's website be GIVING you those numbers, when at the same time, searching IBM's website for the same numbers won't turn up anything?

-Inky

#43 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:12 pm

OK, I looked on the tag underneath the T42, and it shows a model/type number of 2378-5UU, and a serial number of 99KR581.

If I start Access IBM > Get Help & Support > Find support information > Warranty and parts information. Displayed is the same model/type and serial number as above. Additionally it shows: FRU Part number 08K4986 KEYBOARD - US ENGLISH.

Now if I go to the following website:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... sLookup.vm

I can tell it to detect my system, or enter the model and serial number manually. Either way, I get the same results: Mfg part # 08K4957, FRU part # 08K4986, KEYBOARD - US ENGLISH.

If you do a search on this forum with the above FRU part # 08K4986, you'll see that others report this keyboard part number as well. If you search IBM's or Lenovo's website, you come up dry. Doing a Google search didn't really help either.

Inky · #44 Post by **Inky** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 3:52 pm

GomJabbar wrote:I can tell it to detect my system, or enter the model and serial number manually. Either way, I get the same results: Mfg part # 08K4957, FRU part # 08K4986, KEYBOARD - US ENGLISH....

Well GomJabbar, I'm sorry to say but in this case if you really REALLY want to be sure of what keyboard it is, it looks like you have no choice but to remove it and check the label on the underside. It will most likely have a wealth of information. An FRU number you can rely on, and where it was made.

If you still get the same part number even from the keyboard underside, at that point I would call IBM parts to see if they can shed any light on that odd part number.

-Inky

chrisnyc · #45 Post by **chrisnyc** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:33 am

I have a T42 15" Thinkpad on the way ; I looked up the serial number on the Lenovo website and it provides some of the hardware specifications, and I DO have the China keyboard.

I'll wait until it arrives and check it out ; hopefully I'll like it as is ; I'm not sure I can switch out a keyboard on my own.

The stock numbers (FRU's) in the above posts have me all confused ; should I decide I need the other (Thai) keyboard, could anyone be kind enough to post the current Lenovo part number for the Thai keyboard that fits a 15" T42 ? Thank you !

Inky · #46 Post by **Inky** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:49 am

chrisnyc wrote: The stock numbers (FRU's) in the above posts have me all confused ; should I decide I need the other (Thai) keyboard, could anyone be kind enough to post the current Lenovo part number for the Thai keyboard that fits a 15" T42 ? Thank you !

Here's a Cut & Paste from my first post above:

"Incidentally, the FRU number for the NMB(Thai) keyboard is no longer 08K5044. Due to the Lenovo changover some of these part numbers have changed. The new part number is: 39T0519."

-Inky

Kenn · #47 Post by **Kenn** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:18 am

Heh, one of the greatest shames around is that it's generally very hard to find thinkpads on display - being able to touch/feel/type on one in person makes a huge difference. If you live close to a college/university, that's probably your best bet. If you're lucky, they may even have a couple of thinkpads side by side, one with a Thai and another with a Chinese keyboard.

I'm currently using an old IBM Model M (PS/2 plugged into the back of a Port Replicator 2) with my T42p. It's actually my second-favorite keyboard, after the Northgate Omnikey Ultra series. The Omnikeys have the same clicky feel and travel of the Model M, but with noticeably less pressure needed to depress the keys. In my experience, it adds up to about 5-10wpm more, which may or may not be a big deal to you. Unfortunately, someone broke into my storage space a few weeks ago and stole (among other things) about $500 worth of Omnikeys and Model Ms (in other words, about 8 keyboards). Weird, if you ask me.

Someone posted above that the IBMs use Alps keyswitches. I'm not sure that's true. I've heard the old Mac keyboards do, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Ominkeys do as well, but contrary to popular belief, the Model Ms actually use a membrane switch, though the distinctive sound and feel of the keyboard comes from the famous "buckling-spring" mechanism.

There was also a post up just recently about someone who liked their old Dell keyboard better than his Thinkpad's. In the end, I guess it really is up to the individual person and what they're used to. My gf can't stand the Model-M or the Omnikey - she 1) can't tell the difference between the two, and 2) think that both require way too much pressure to activate a key. OTOH, put me across the hall of someone typing on either, and I could tell which one it is...

That is to say, most people probably wouldn't notice or care about the difference between a Thinkpad keyboard and one on any other laptop. I think the people who care the most (and at least to some degree, are thus self-selecting to Thinkpads) are the people who really remember or liked the "good old days" of Selectronic typewriters and omnikey/model M AT keyboards, or for some bizarre reason are very obsessive about maximizing typing speed + accuracy (the accuracy part is really where a nice distinctive click makes a big difference). In other words, snobs

And I mean that in a good way!

bhtooefr · #48 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:05 am

Yep, I can tell the difference between an Alps keyswitch and a BS keyswitch.

From your description, it sounds like the Omnikey is an Alps.

I had a Laser (VTech's PC brand) AT keyboard with Alps keyswitches.

Yes, it requires less force. However, I prefer how solid my Model M is to the lower force of the Laser.

I need to get my hands on a Model F to feel a BS keyboard the way BS was meant to be. After all, the Model M is a BS/membrane hybrid...

Procter · #49 Post by **Procter** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:48 pm

Is there anyway to find out the keyboard model number without taking it down? I remember there is something looking like model numbers for each part of the machine on the packing slip.

Any ideas? TIA

Procter · #50 Post by **Procter** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:54 pm

Using Access IBM, I found the parts info shipped with my machine, luckily I got the 08K5044 keyboard for my T43 with 14.1 SXGA+ screen

kai920 · #51 Post by **kai920** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:10 pm

I have a 39T0550 39T0581 FRU KEYBOARD UNIT 14 CHICONY - US ENGLISH keyboard.

I have no problems typing on it, but I can't tell if this is "good or bad"?

christopher_wolf · #52 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:10 am

I think Chicony is Thai, is it not; general opinion seems to indicate that it is good.

Also, I have the Thai Keyboard as well...I think; I really love it.

Kenn · #53 Post by **Kenn** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:00 am

I don't know firsthand, but word around here is that Chicony is from China. I've never seen/used one myself.

christopher_wolf · #54 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:15 am

Well, the Topic states that the NMB is from China and is the "Good" Keyboard...Then which one is the Thai model?

bhtooefr · #55 Post by **bhtooefr** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:03 am

NMB, Alps, and Chicony are the three manufacturers of T4 series keyboards.

Kenn · #56 Post by **Kenn** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:44 am

christopher_wolf wrote:Well, the Topic states that the NMB is from China and is the "Good" Keyboard...Then which one is the Thai model?

Sorry, the title of the thread is indeed unclear.

Hope this helps:

NMB = Thai. Solid build, light-touch, silent, faster typing (for me, good)
Alps = China. Louder, flimsier build (for me, not as good)
Chincony = no idea (though word here is it's also manufactured in China)

christopher_wolf · #57 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:59 pm

Mmmmmm, OK...I think I have the NMB Keyboard then; I followed all the instructions as via the first post. It feels very good.

CoffeeBeans · #58 Post by **CoffeeBeans** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:51 pm

Are there any instructions on how to lift the keyboard out to check the serial number, I have a T43.

bhtooefr · #59 Post by **bhtooefr** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:03 am

I have removed the content of this post, as davidspalding informed me that my method does NOT work on a T43.

davidspalding · #60 Post by **davidspalding** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:31 pm

Removed to respect the original poster

Yikes. Reckless advice, friend. Any and all T4x owners would do well to review the hardware FRU removal manual (pdf; the link is littered all over this forum) before undoing any screws and dismantling their laptop.

For one, you don't mention removing all batteries and removing AC power prior to removing the keyboard. Also, at least on the T43, the keyboard most certainly does NOT flex and snap out! Damage could result. It slides back (towards the screen) a few millimeters, then lifts easily out. Insertion is done in reverse, no "snapping back in" required. I'm not going to get more explicit; IBM's manual is very precise and provides illustrations.

Of course, the topic thread is about keyboards and part numbers. If anyone "bends" and "snaps out" a keyboard, the replacement part number will be very handy. Might also want a USB keyboard, too. I'm using a 19K1760 at the moment; it's nice, has two USB ports on it where a wireless notebook mouse receiver can plug in.

P.S. I have the 39T0581 Chicony keyboard and have no complaints. The "bumpers" underneath the arrow keys are grey. No squeaky UltraNav buttons.

T42 Thai (NMB), China (Alps) Keyboard Impressons (long)

T42 China Keyboard

Re: T42 China Keyboard

Please don't take this personally, but....

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