T42 Thai (NMB), China (Alps) Keyboard Impressons (long)

Message

bhtooefr · #61 Post by **bhtooefr** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:47 pm

Gah, sorry, thought they were all the same... I've removed my directions...

I've done it with the power on, on my X21, to check things like the heatsink with the system running, but I do recommend killing power. And, yes, the HMM says to yank any and all power SOURCES, too.

(And, yes, the X2x HMM DOES say to flex the keyboard, and shows it snapping in and out. I was just under the impression that they were the same.)

Kenn · #62 Post by **Kenn** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:23 pm

christopher_wolf,

Glad you have the keyboard you want, the important thing is that you are happy with the performance and feel, regardless of manufacture.

I didn't see the removed post on removing the keyboard, but yes as a precaution it would be good to remove the power. It's a "just in case" requirement though, and in reality about as dangerous as pulling out a PS/2 cable with the power on, which is essentially what you're doing.

I've had the power on with the keyboard plugged-in-but-removed in order to check the fan as well, and a do few other things as well:

http://www.pbase.com/kenn/image/39152599

If you know what you're doing, you're generally going to be OK as long as you remember to use common sense. If you're not as comfortable with your way around an open laptop (or a PC submerged in deionized water or mineral oil), it's best to play it safe and stick with the prescribed directions.

bhtooefr · #63 Post by **bhtooefr** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:29 pm

Basically, I was posting the method that works for mine, which is taken right out of the X2x HMM. I didn't realize that the removal method for the T4x was different.

davidspalding · #64 Post by **davidspalding** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:00 pm

I wasn't shooting for being a hard-a**, I just know that sometimes brief instructions written with the best of intentions can be misinterpreted by newbies who don't know better. Resulting in an "Oops ... oh &#)@" situation. I've seen it happen many times.

And ... well, we ARE posting in the T4x forum. Things that work for the X-series crowd could be disastrous in the T's.

Jonathan Cordery · #65 Post by **Jonathan Cordery** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:01 pm

Yes the Thai keyboard is great but it's a shame about the little bumps on the F and J keys wearing down. They should use harder plastic.

Many old desktop keyboards still have these handy guides so it is possible to make more resistant keys.

kai920 · #66 Post by **kai920** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:48 pm

davidspalding wrote:P.S. I have the 39T0581 Chicony keyboard and have no complaints. The "bumpers" underneath the arrow keys are grey. No squeaky UltraNav buttons.

Same keyboard and same thinking - no complaints here. Thank God I don't have squeaky UltraNav buttons or I'd be driven insane!

Can one see the "bumpers" without taking out the keyboard?

christopher_wolf · #67 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:10 pm

Yup, you can see the bumpers if you look close enough without taking the keyboard off. Also, there is what I think is a slight blue trim at the bottom as well; which is easier to spot.

Trip · #68 Post by **Trip** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:02 pm

So, here's a question - are there any Canadians here who have sucessfully managed to get their keyboard replaced? If so, is there anything in particular that I can say that will help me get mine replaced? I have an Alps (yuck), and I think I want to give the Chicony a shot, if possible.

Oh, and if anybody's interested (since there seems to be some doubt), Chicony appears to be a Taiwanese company. So, technically Chinese. According to their website, they have production facilities in China, Thailand, and Europe.

eric530 · #69 Post by **eric530** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:06 pm

just fyi i guess...
Recently my 5 key wasn't working right so I push down on it thinking it was just snapped out of place, well it broke off... Called ibm got routed to atlanta georgia, asked for nmb version, and they sent me a new keyboard. The guy also said the new t's are only shipping with the nmb keyboard, but I dunno if thats true or not.

it feels like a new laptop again!

t43 14.1 inch

came 3day, with new screws, instructions, and a new soft rubber dome, didnt come with any shipping label to return the ol keyoard yet.

the screws seem really easy to strip, one thing that might help is actually having the laptop half open while pressing on the keyboard.

old
clear/white domes
i think my old keyboard was chicony not sure ( says the fru is 13n9957 made in china)
makes a definate clicking noise
middle blue button would pop out if pushed towards touch pad

new
blue
new keyboard 39t0519 made in thailand
much quieter
blue button seems much more solid
track point much more sensitive
new trackpoint circut???
the entire plastic spring mechinism looks alittle different on the thai
was alittle stiff at first but actually types about the same as the old keyboard once it was broken in.

on a different note. the two trackpoint circut boards look different both keyboards have the same size green circut board, but the old keyboard had a anodized metal plate over half of it, while new one doesnt, (i wish i had my camera) the trackpoint seems ALOT more sensative and I actually needed to move the trackpoint sensativity down 2 notches. (even with my old rubber dome attached)

just my thoughts

cerebral_mamba · #70 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:42 am

I poped out my arrow key and it has an all white bumper. Not black, not grey and not blue? Are the new T43s keyboard different from the ones before? I have to go home and check the invoice to see what the partnumber etc are.

christopher_wolf · #71 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:03 am

There is a way, I think, where you can check the Keyboard FRU number without the invoice or removing it. My keyboard has the blue bumpers, hinting at it being NMB, and I hit the "Access IBM" button and clicked on the System Information button then I clicked on "Warranty&Parts" and it brought up a list...Here is what I think is the keyboard entry

39T0519 FRU-KBD NMB US ENGLISH ROHS

I think that is it; correct me if I am wrong anybody. HTH

cerebral_mamba · #72 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 9:18 am

christopher_wolf wrote:There is a way, I think, where you can check the Keyboard FRU number without the invoice or removing it. My keyboard has the blue bumpers, hinting at it being NMB, and I hit the "Access IBM" button and clicked on the System Information button then I clicked on "Warranty&Parts" and it brought up a list...Here is what I think is the keyboard entry

39T0519 FRU-KBD NMB US ENGLISH ROHS

I think that is it; correct me if I am wrong anybody. HTH

You are right on spot. I did the same and find that i have the

39T0581 - FRU KEYBOARD UNIT 14 CHICONY - US ENGLI

Now, having read this thread, I suddenly notice all the issues mentioned about this keyboard. Called the tech support - all went well and they have shipped me with the 39T0519 FRU-KBD NMB US ENGLISH ROHS

Thank you everybody for this wonderful post.

davidspalding · #73 Post by **davidspalding** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:18 pm

Revisiting this ...

So after using my T43 (2668-75U) for a couple of months, I've noticed that at times, my fingers will catch under the skirt of adjacent keys while I'm typing. Particularly on the left side. Very annoying.

System information from Access IBM confirms that I've got a Chicony keyboard (39TO581). Further, PN's I get off Lenovo's site don't seem to match what's in my TP: N08K4986, or 13N9831.

Here're pics of my keyboard's labels

http://www.chromejob.com/thinkpads/dscf0001.jpg
http://www.chromejob.com/thinkpads/dscf0002.jpg
http://www.chromejob.com/thinkpads/dscf0003.jpg

The HMM lists the following (NMB, ALPS, Chicony)

English, U.S. 39T0519 13N9957 39T0581

So, if I want an NMB, I call tech support.... (crosses fingers)
____________

Well, Atlanta technical support did NOT replace 03T0581 since "it's not currently defective." I reiterated that my finger catches on the W and E keys when I depress the S, and eventually one of those keys will break off ... requiring replacement. I asked the team lead to call me back after groking on it a while. So ... maybe ordering a new one is the thing to do, then breaking the Chicony and asking for a replacement. ,:}

#74 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:02 pm

davidspalding wrote:So after using my T43 (2668-75U) for a couple of months, I've noticed that at times, my fingers will catch under the skirt of adjacent keys while I'm typing. Particularly on the left side. Very annoying.

I believe this is the first I have read about this issue. I don't deny that you have it, but I am a little surprised. I have a T42 with a Chicony keyboard (as far as I can tell). The tops of the keys on my keyboard are beveled, and I don't see how my finger could catch on the underside of one, unless maybe perhaps my fingers were very thin. Admittedly, my fingers are probably fatter than average (not me, just my fingers). AFAIK, the T42 and T43's use the same keyboards. FTR, my keyboard FRU's are 08K4896 and 08K4957. I can't find a refererence to those numbers anywhere on IBM/Lenovo's site.

You wrote: "Further, PN's I get off Lenovo's site don't seem to match what's in my TP: N08K4986, or 13N9831." I see the 13N9831 on the following page: Keyboard service parts - ThinkPad T43/p

christopher_wolf · #75 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:12 pm

Fingernails perhaps(Either too short or too long)? I could see that happening although it is not common at all. I have seen a few people catch their fingernails under a key on a laptop keyboard whilst typing. I could very well be wrong though.

davidspalding · #76 Post by **davidspalding** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:49 am

Not fingernails, actually, but my fingertips. If I look carefully, the keys actually depress farther than the skirts of adjacent keys. Which is pretty crappy design. This means that if you type and your finger slips laterally off the key as you move, the edge of adjacent keys can catch fingers, quite easily. I can do this by simply pressing the D all the way down and then sliding a little to the E, R, X, C keys.

I'm pretty confident that something's going to snap within 6 months. I could get the NMB for about $62 shipped (tax, too), but I think I'll just let it go "defective," and let some hard-a** tech support team lead eat the cost. I think I read in this thread a rumor that T43s were no longer shipping with Chicony keyboards, and that would be a Good Idea.

I think they changed numbers, though I don't have a 43p. Something I reread earlier in teh thread while pursuing the keyboard of my dreams, after realizing this thread was > 1 page.

#77 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:13 am

davidspalding wrote:...though I don't have a 43p.

I'm guessing that you wrote this in reference to the link I posted. Confusingly, on IBM/Lenovo's sites, they refer to the T43 and T43p as T43/p. Same thing with the others: T42 and T42p as T42/p. If you look, many pages don't show just T43 or T42. Apparently the / is to designate both models: p and non-p (In some cases. In other cases it does mean the p model only).

Here is an example. Read the title, then read the systems it applies to.
http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.ws ... MIGR-53806

dr_st · #78 Post by **dr_st** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:03 am

I have a Thai (NMB) keyboard on my T42. Once my finger was caught underneath the J key and it was popped out of its place. It was then that I notice that most of the keys are very easy to pop out.

davidspalding · #79 Post by **davidspalding** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:16 am

GomJabbar wrote:
davidspalding wrote:...though I don't have a 43p.
I'm guessing that you wrote this in reference to the link I posted. Confusingly, on IBM/Lenovo's sites, they refer to the T43 and T43p as T43/p. Same thing with the others: T42 and T42p as T42/p. If you look, many pages don't show just T43 or T42. Apparently the / is to designate both models: p and non-p (In some cases. In other cases it does mean the p model only).

Here is an example. Read the title, then read the systems it applies to.
http://www-3.ibm.com/pc/support/site.ws ... MIGR-53806

Yes, I've seen systems referenced both ways.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62296

dr_st wrote:I have a Thai (NMB) keyboard on my T42. Once my finger was caught underneath the J key and it was popped out of its place. It was then that I notice that most of the keys are very easy to pop out.

That reassures me that this problem isn't so much a Chicony issue, then. Frankly, when I started using this, I didn't sense much of a difference from the T43, T40p that I used in a lab. The keys seem "lighter," but otherwise ... still better than most anything I've touched.

Case in point, I was at CompUSA last night searching out some Japan-made CD-Rs and DVD-RWs, and played with all the keyboards. The only one I liked was a $14 Microsoft and a $30 HP. All others felt flimsy, insubstantial, and some were outright difficult to type on (particularly the $129 and $199 Logitech super wireless multimedia sets). I guess I'm spoiled by my 14 y.o. MaxiSwitch, an IBM enhanced USB compact that I found, and ... a 20 y.o. IBM PC keyboard that I rescued from DRMO a few years ago (metal, with removable key caps). Amazing that a good, standard keyboard is hard to find ... no wonder IBM/Lenovo can get away with charging $40 and up for theirs.

christopher_wolf · #80 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:31 pm

Well, there is always the Famous IBM Model M Keyboard; which I highly recommend.

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... n/pageID/2

Or

http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html

Unicomp got the Patents, I think, from Lexmark which IBM originally gave the production of Model M Keyboards to.

davidspalding · #81 Post by **davidspalding** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 10:58 am

With their strength and durability, it is the rare computer component that you can pass down as an heirloom to your kids or to the next generation.

OMFG, Chris, I owe you one! I have one of those Model M keyboards, that I rescued from a govt. depot around 1996, 1997. With that guy's page, I can determine just what era/year it was from. Being a govt. model, I presumed that it was ooooooold.

I had no idea there was an underground subcult of antique (ha) IBM keyboard aficionados. And now I find ... i are one.

skuff · #82 Post by **skuff** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:19 pm

I thought I would enlighten this thread with some interesting updates. I just bought a used T42 15" with about 2 years IBM warranty remaining. I took my keyboard out and found it to be the China made one, FRU 93P4840. In an effort to get the best keyboard available, I called IBM support and requested I get a replacement with FRU 93P4780. I was informed that the part number 93P4780 is updated to 39T0643, but it was still the NMB brand.

The next day, I received my new keyboard. The new keyboard appeared by all visual cues to be the NMB keyboard. Correct part #, sturdier metal plate with fewer, larger holes and the blue rubber domes underneath the keys (see the orignal post on this thread for review of what I'm talking about). BUT! it has a made in China stamp on the back, while everything else about it points to the NMB Thai keyboards..............

The new one also has an inferior (in my opinion) feel to the original China made keyboard that came my T42. The new one has slightly less key travel, a less snappy response and a softer touch. All together, the new one is "spongey" compared to the original one.

So, has China now taken over production of all keyboards, regardless of the type of construction?? Will there ever again be the reign of "IBM, King of Laptop Keyboards" that we have known in the past?

At any rate, I'm the proud owner of a T42, 15" SXGA+ LCD, upgraded seagate 100GB 5400RPM HD, better of the two China keyboards.

christopher_wolf · #83 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:44 pm

Welcome to the Thinkpad Forums skuff

Well, There are two keyboards that are made in China; for all I know, NMB Thai might have setup a factory in China while, as a business division, NMB Thai is responsible for the Keyboards made for IBM by NMB. It is possible that the production lines have been shifted in such a manner. Though, nothing else would seem to point to that.

cerebral_mamba · #84 Post by **cerebral_mamba** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:43 am

as long as they keep the NMB keyboard, ThinkPads will still keep having great keyboard. I had the Chi*** and it was a piece of Sh** compared to the NMB one.

hoya · #85 Post by **hoya** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:06 pm

I personally own two NMB keyboards that are made in China. I also started a thread on this subject and it appears that several other ThinkPad owners are finding that their NMB keyboards are also made in China:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 502#125502

davidspalding · #86 Post by **davidspalding** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:25 am

christopher_wolf wrote:Well, there is always the Famous IBM Model M Keyboard; which I highly recommend.

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... n/pageID/2

I just ordered a quiet version of the 1391401 for work (I have a loud one in a box at home), and have been typing much better ever since. The proprietor of ClickyKeyboards.com was very helpful.

andy71600 · #87 Post by **andy71600** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:37 pm

eric530 wrote:just fyi i guess...
Recently my 5 key wasn't working right so I push down on it thinking it was just snapped out of place, well it broke off... Called ibm got routed to atlanta georgia, asked for nmb version, and they sent me a new keyboard. The guy also said the new t's are only shipping with the nmb keyboard, but I dunno if thats true or not.

it feels like a new laptop again!

t43 14.1 inch

came 3day, with new screws, instructions, and a new soft rubber dome, didnt come with any shipping label to return the ol keyoard yet.

the screws seem really easy to strip, one thing that might help is actually having the laptop half open while pressing on the keyboard.

old
clear/white domes
i think my old keyboard was chicony not sure ( says the fru is 13n9957 made in china)
makes a definate clicking noise
middle blue button would pop out if pushed towards touch pad

new
blue
new keyboard 39t0519 made in thailand
much quieter
blue button seems much more solid
track point much more sensitive
new trackpoint circut???
the entire plastic spring mechinism looks alittle different on the thai
was alittle stiff at first but actually types about the same as the old keyboard once it was broken in.

on a different note. the two trackpoint circut boards look different both keyboards have the same size green circut board, but the old keyboard had a anodized metal plate over half of it, while new one doesnt, (i wish i had my camera) the trackpoint seems ALOT more sensative and I actually needed to move the trackpoint sensativity down 2 notches. (even with my old rubber dome attached)

just my thoughts

What do you mean by clear/white/blue domes?

Hanson · #88 Post by **Hanson** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:31 am

cerebral_mamba wrote:as long as they keep the NMB keyboard, ThinkPads will still keep having great keyboard. I had the Chi*** and it was a piece of Sh** compared to the NMB one.

I wonder why the CHICONY is more expensive than the NMB if the quality is worse...

Quantity Part No. Description Availability Item price Line total

Individual Items

39T0519 FRU-KBD NMB US ENGLISH ROHS Within 2-4 weeks ** $47.50

39T0581 FRU KEYBOARD UNIT 14 CHICONY - US ENGLISH ROHS In stock ** $52.00

13N9957 KEYBOARDS; FRU-KBD ALPS US ENGLISH ROHS CALL $37.50

o1001010 · #89 Post by **o1001010** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:22 am

my system spec is in my sig but i freaken love my chicony keyboard

lithium726 · #90 Post by **lithium726** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:17 pm

I've got a new NMB keyboard that IBM put on my TP when it went in for a Systemboard replacement... I gotta say, I like my TP's keyboard than any other keyboard I have, and really enjoy using this system more than I enjoy using my desktop... im considering selling my desktop and just using this as my main system... dont think Ill do that till ive got a T60 though, I need more serious graphics power to do that...

i <3 TP keyboards. I like this one more than the one on my T23.

T42 Thai (NMB), China (Alps) Keyboard Impressons (long)

Re: Please don't take this personally, but....

T43 Chicony keyboard ... one of the sucky ones...

Re: T43 Chicony keyboard ... one of the sucky ones...

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